Hello. I need help guys. I wont go into all details but late 30s. Repressed same sex desires for yrs. Dated womem until early 30s. Not many women but a few. Knew i liked guys but could not accept. Started exploring early 30s. Nothing really sexual just dating and hanging out. More repression. Depression. Sought counselors. Several diff ones. Did not seem to help. Alcohol numbed the pain. Made it ez to go to clubs. Felt great but usually acted like a teenager while there and not a grown man. During week im polished and professional. My behavior in terms of dancing and acting silly and flirting makes me feel embarrassed and too much alochol. Overall i feel like crap. I hate myself. I am out now to immediate famiky and close friends (a few) . They accept me. I cant accept myself. Yrs of depression. Help.
You are who you are. What you are doing is trying to squeeze your soul into a mold too wrong for it. You can't decide your sexual identity like you can't choose your hair, eye or skin color. Call it genes, nature or God... you are the one unique being in this existance. Do you find your dancing, acting or flirting silly as you try to stick to a "perfect" ideal created by others? Probably people who interested in you thought otherwise I bet. Usually we are our own worst enemy. F*ck the world and other people's ideals, live for yourself. Count your blessings in your accepting family and friends. Most importantly stop drinking. Taking life and yourself too seriously is a damaging process. You need more smiles and hugs. (*hug*)
Welcome to EC offmychest! Seeing yourself as you really are is one of the most difficult things one can do. The self-hatred comes from the comparison you have of what you "ought" to be and what you are. Shame is the name of the beast you need to tame. It is the feeling that you are not good enough, and it is self-destructive. For starters, look up Brené Brown's discussion on shame, on YouTube. I think it can help you at least begin to understand the underlying cause of all this pain. You came to the right place to hash this out and work on getting more comfortable with who you are and who you can become. One day, I am sure, you will realize that being who you are, the extraordinary person that you are, means living a life of integrity and, most importantly, love.
Thanks guys. The drinking makes me feel bad but in the moment i feel good. Afterwards i feel digusted that i didnt live up to this goodie two shoe image i have always maintained. I am supposed to be reserved and conservative. What happens is that in my day to day life i see guys i like but cant flirt or approach beacuse who knows if they are gay or straight. I get frustrated about the constant "hands off"experience of this. Online dating hasnt been great and i also am not comfortable putting a pic up since im not fully out. I also seem distruful of online. So i go to gay club. Get a few too many drinks in and then im superman until i crash and burn. I feel free to be as weird as i want. U r right that the guys there give me thier. Umbers and later tell me i was funny and hjlarious or attractive but i feel like crap after my behavior. Im not hooking up. Just acting out. I am very concerned with other people thinkof me and feel like i have to be seen as perfect. I have tried to talk to guys that are straight and end up feeling stupid when my initial hope of them being gay proves wrong.in fact i think to myself...."they have a perfect life and normal. They arent actin imature at some gayclub like me.". I saw a commentator on tv today and he was attractive and i thought to myself..."you could never do a job like his now because you have a past of stupid behavior at gay labeled places and people would out you if you were ever on tv." I am afriad to have a relationship with a man because of what it would mean to my life. Im still mourning the straight life and afraid to embrace a different life. I have been caught in this rut for years. Lamenting over my quarterly gay excursions. I thought i was trying to get more comfotable with myself but its been a fail. I am very miserable. I havent been interested in seeking out positve gay social networks. It seems so gay to me.which makes no sense whem im already in the gay club. I want to have fun and get very lonely and i have straight friends but i have slowly stopped hanging out with them.the gay guys i have tried to befriend suck.usuallythey like me and when i dont like them back and wanna b friends they are standoffish. Many of them are in gay hiding as well so they arent great people for me to b around anyone if im trying to move out of living double lives. Overakl im a mess. I dont wanna drink anymore. I just dont know what to do.
Are there any LGBT groups, community centers, or Meetups (meetup.com) in your area? These sorts of places can provide a social outlet that is explicitly not about hooking up. In some cases they may do hikes, picnics, or charity work that let's you meet people outside the clubs and is in a good cause. If you are religious, you might locate an LGBT friendly congregation in your area. You might again meet people outside of a club situation and also talk to the pastor about your situation. Or seek out a professional therapist. Hope this helps, Todd
Saught therapy. Have made some strides but it all goes back to self acceptance. Seems so hard fot me to grasp. Some therapy has been quite damaging though from thise who said they were lgbt issur approved but had very twisted viewpoints on gays bordering on generalizations. If that is what therapy is i can have a degree. After a few bad apples i didnt have the strenght to try and be vulnerable again. It was just to emotional to spill stuff out and have someone not b very helpful. I can try more gay group stuff but whwn i am around gay people i always feel straight and feel like an outsider and that i have nothing in common with them other than gay attraction. Even if rhe activity is neutral. I feel like an outsider beacuae of rhe way the other gays act and i do not act behave or sound the same. Its not gay bashing or homophobia i just dont belong. When i have met other guys i can relate to that are gay they usually are just different and not mainstream types. For once i would like to be around people that seem to be rhe same as straights. Checked out brenne brown and i can totally 100percent say she was right and u can relate to the shame. I have gay shane and i play small to avoid rejection or criticism from all these people who really dont give an eff about me anyway and are not paying my bills so why should i care what they think....but i desperately do. I want to be lived and accepted for me as i was often ridculued as a child. Somethimes i think mayb my whole "gay" desire stems out of wanting other guys to like me because i never felt liked by other guys growing up and was teased. Mayb that turned me gay or bi. I know im just bargaining at this point. Im just a lost soul it seems
Hmm. Three thoughts here: a) You sound like you need this: (*hug*) b) Regarding self-acceptance and talking to someone: Folks here are a pretty friendly bunch overall and if you'd like to talk about being gay, or acceptance, or working toward same, I'm sure there are plenty of people here who would be happy to do so. Basically, stick around a while and get to know EC - take part in any discussions that interest you and feel free to post about things you'd like to talk about, either on the forums or even privately with the staff. c) Regarding feeling alone as a gay man - I'm somewhat hesitant to do this since I'm not entirely sure how I feel about them as a group -but - you might want to look up the group 'Gaybros' online. They are apparently notable for being a gay men's social group that sounds like it might be more in line with the kind of social contacts you are looking for and they apparently have chapters around the country. Perhaps one is close to where you are. That said, I would also point out that gay people come in all shapes and sizes and types and that even those who are very different from you can be very good people and good friends - but I'm thinking that if you can start feeling more comfortable on one front, it can do a lot to help you start feeling more comfortable on others. So starting from a different direction perhaps. Finally, and just because I think you deserve it: (*hug*) Hope this helps and take care, Todd
I think your post is one of the best most succinct to the point messages i have read on here. But yes do try to stop drinking it will only make an already difficult situation even worse. Molly x
I totally get it - 10 years ago I could have written your intro. I think there is some value in therapy but it's a fishing game - you have to try several lines before something bites. As to the online dating thing- so you are concerned about someone who is gay seeing your picture and knowing your gay? Without which you will home alone- . They are gay too! What's the big deal- now I say things but again I had similar thoughts 10 years ago. As to the drinking - your hiding behind it - you know it. I have done this too. You'll stop when your ready for a real life. Don't you deserve that? That same happiness that all humans desire?
"I am supposed to be reserved and conservative." Why do you think this..? We are all allowed to,let our hair down...it's no problem to enjoy yourself.....
thanks all. i really appreciate the support. i really do not have many gay friends at all and the once i have tried to foster....well, it just never seemed to work out in terms of someone in my local area close to me that i can share these things with and them not saying "toughen up, get over it, stop complaining", but yet these same people are living comfortably with their mask on (or so they appear to be and we are never sure what anguish lies behind a smile). i see a shift happening in me. i do not find pleasure in hiding anymore. i only find stress and angst. where others i know seem to find it fun and mysterious for everyone to think they're straight and yet they have secret interludes and relationships with guys, i find it overwhelming difficult to maintain two lives and two worlds. i can't seem to manage one life well enough let alone two. as far as the drinking, yea i know i can stop and have done it before for many years. i know it is not helping me at all. yes it may "loosen the gears" a bit but that only leads me to feeling remorseful of what i deem "acting out" which really is just me rebelling against being a conservative polished robot. i think i always got praise for being perfect and so i lived my whole life trying to out-do myself and be all i can be. it was a great mask but when i look at it worked until my 20s and around that time i started to see the mask crack because i saw people moving forward with their lives (marriage, kids, relationships) and the only thing i had was some made up perfect guy image but in my personal life i was not progressing like others. here i am in my late 30s and honestly really have nothing to show for it. i think since my family and teachers and community always saw me as perfect, i would hate to disappoint them by being "human". so all the crazy fun stuff that you did in high school and college, it seems as though i'm reverting back to that now and it feels liberating but depressing at the same time because i know it is not age appropriate for me. im sure i look like the "old guy at the club" trying to be in with the younger guys. with that said, i seem to have no problem getting guys interested in me at these places so i can't be looking that ridiculous and if so, it doesn't seem to be a barrier for them. that said, here's what i need the community support on... 1. for others that went through this shame cycle...what was the breaking point where you just said "screw it!!, i'm living for me!" how did you maintain this resolve after a few days when the old guilt and shame thoughts knocked on your door. 2. how does it feel when other people know you're gay. i mean, i have told some friends and even some straight guys who i have had been attracted to but these are case by case scenarios, but the truth is that many of the people that know me must think i am gay. i have not had a girlfriend in years and never am seen a girlfriend. 3. how can you tell yourself and truly believe that this is my life. i can fall down or make mistakes but i can get back up. i am ok. being gay or bi doesn't mean i am inherently bad. i guess i still feel like i am a bad person because i like guys or that i am dirty for this. 4. sex: i am sexually repressed. i have desires but also think those are "dirty". even if i got the boyfriend of my dreams i honestly would feel ashamed for some of the things i would want to do with him and i'm sure there would be post sex guilt and mourning on my part. how do i work on this so that if i find someone, they would feel like they are "corrupting" me in some way. thanks for your help. i just really do not have a safe place yet to share these thoughts and i appreciate your help.
1. My make or break moment came at a friends wake. She died way too young but the thing about my friend was that she made a decision and lived with it. As I sat at the wake watching her husband of only a few years laugh and cry over the times they shared and the times they would not having - I thought don't I deserve that? I would like to say that once I made the decision it was easy but there were days of " OMG what if someone sees me at a gay bar" - guess what - if they it means they are gay or a friend of the gays so it doesn't matter. 2. While we focus and dwell on our hidden sexually most of our friends do not. I think you will find some of your friends assume your gay, and some haven't given it a thought. In terms of responses- I got " oh I guess that makes sense, to ok oh, to duh" lol! 3. Here's a funny thing- my life looks very much like everyone else's. House, partner, dog, caring for my partners mom, a career. The only thing that's different is how I have sex. And quite honestly, I don't want to know if my next door neighbor is doing in his bedroom so why is my sex life the focus of people's debates about being gay? 4. Hopefully, you will get lucky and meet someone you are comfortable with - -who you can truly be yourself with. And you will experiment and the shame will give way to pleasure and enjoyment. But you have to comfortable with the person (IMHO) Lastly, I think a lot of crave being the perfect "son, worker, etc" to over compensate for our being gay. The think there is even a book titled THe best little boy in the world but it's ok to just be average sometimes.
To be honest, I never went through any guilt or shame about being gay. But that came out of three major things: a) A mom who was a very free spirit who actively raised me to place being true to myself above virtually everything/everyone else. Including her, if it came right down to it. b) A major chunk of my childhood spent around people (including my 'dad') who very much thought I should NOT be true to myself and should instead conform to their ideas of what was 'right'. c) My mom actively teaching me to fight back against these people and giving me the mental tools to do so. The major tools were: Logic and reason - If what I'm doing isn't hurting anyone else, then why should I feel guilt or shame about it and why should I stop? If someone doesn't like what I'm doing and can't put together a solid, logic and reason based argument on why I should change - then why should I give their viewpoint any consideration? Survival thinking - When I was little and stressing over what 'might' happen, my mom would usually ask me a simple question: Ok, let's say you do this thing. What's the worst that can happen? <I tell her my biggest fear about whatever - usually embarrassement>. Ok, if that happens - can you live with that? <Turns out the answer is usually yes>. I also tend to focus on the consequences of my actions in the physical sense rather than the emotional - and then try to take action to make the physical consequences no longer relevant or able to happen. I'm still a pretty cautious and controlled person - but my fundamental self is something the world will just have to deal with - or it will be sorry. It just feels like you're being you. Pretty much everyone who I know to any degree knows I'm gay (family, friends, co-workers). When I was in college I went through a phase of coming out to everyone in sight (co-workers, roommates, people I'd just met). It was rather liberating and also (deep down) something of a 'I dare you to have a problem with this and if you do I'll squash you like a bug' thing. Very empowering, I guess. These days I'm more relaxed about it, but anyone who knows me for any length of time/any real depth is going to learn about it fairly quickly - since it's part of who and what I am. In my case, a lot of years of falling down and making mistakes - and then getting back up, dusting off, and going at it again, trying to do better this time. Because life gave me no alternative. This taught me by direct experience that I can do so. Actually, being merely human, I'd bet that if you think about it, you've had your share of falling down and getting back up already - although you may not have thought of it in those terms. Have you gotten through a death in the family? A loss of a job? A friends major crisis that you were there for them through? Something similar? If so, you've already demonstrated the ability to get up again - or support others in getting up again - or at least powering through, because you have to. As far as the last bit about being 'bad' or 'dirty' because you like guys. Let's apply that logic and reason I mentioned earlier. Please answer this question string, either here or at least as an exercise with yourself: What - specifically - are the actual, concrete, measurable negative consequences of you liking guys or having sex with guys? If the answer boils down to: Some people will feel emotional distress at the thought of me getting naked and sweaty with another man... Then ask yourself this question: Are you really obligated to sacrifice your happiness for the sake of some other peoples emotional complacency? If so, why? Logic again - ask yourself what you are doing to feel shame or 'dirty' about? In actual, concrete, physical terms (because those are generally the only kind that matter). Does a new species go extinct every time you kiss a man? Does a baby wake up screaming and covered in bleeding wounds every time you perform or receive oral sex? Does a tornado wipe out a town each time you engage in anal? Will the economy collapse again if you spend a long weekend at a sex party involving 10 other guys, leather, handcuffs and a couple of slings (if you're a Wall Street stock trader, I suppose this last is barely possible...)? Does it seem likely that if you meet a special guy, fall in love, and end up marrying him that an asteroid will suddenly strike the Earth and kill us all *as a direct and scientifically measurable consequence of what you do as a gay man*? On a more general case - Ask yourself why you should feel guilt or mourning (or 'dirty') about something that harms no one and that is (presumably) being done with another consenting and age appropriate person (or people if your tastes run that way). If you can't find a measurable and verifiable chain of events or logic that leads to direct harm to yourself or others (causing them to feel emotional distress because they know you like sex with men doesn't count - no one has a right to emotional complacency)...then you have no reason to feel guilt or mourning - and if those feelings try to arise - tell them to shut up and go away. Then find something fun to do (preferably with your hot boyfriend ) to take your mind off them. Eventually those feelings will seem insignificant and weak - and then they will die altogether. Small correction here You do have a safe place now to share these thoughts - EC is a very safe place and you can share pretty much anything you want to here. Hope this helps, Todd
thanks guys. i have decided to stop trying to date anyone. it just never works out. i have decided to focus my life on my career, working out, and maybe personal interests. i dont want to be with someone i'm not into. i do not want to settle. i'm tired of wondering if somone is or isn't gay. i am very miserable and just holding on by a tread. i wish i never had attractions for the same sex. this has been a curse on me. if i was into being promiscious this would have been good for me and probably quite enjoyable but i'm not and as a result being gay just sucks for me. basically guys i have given up. my heart is broken and i'm no longer returning text messages to anyone else outside of family. back in the closet i go.
Please do not give up. You have to kiss a lot of frogs to get a prince but it can (and does). You are selling yourself too short.
thanks nydtc and everyone else. so i have an update. i actually went on a couple of dates recently. both were with people that i did not think would be a good match due to some unsavory things about them and not much going for themselves (well that was the case with one) the case with the other was that he is very sexual and there's always a sexual innuendo and i honestly do not want to be bothered with someone wired that way. well both dates were not bad. they were good. you can make fun or have fun with anyone but i know that they were not for me. and i did not do anything with them physically and i felt darn good about that. even though they both wanted to of course. typically i would feel pressure to kiss someone even if i did not want to. well one guy when i would not return his sexual advances would say things like i should grow up or other little digs. i just laughed to myself because it was great to hear it.it was great to have even more reasons not to want to date the person. if someone wants to rush to do something physical and all they talk about is sex then to me that's all that's on their mind. i do not want to be with someone like that. although i was physically attracted, its not a person that i want to be with and that is not compatiable with me. the other guy could only offer me sex as he had nothing else going for himself. i do now one thing is that, the dating options suck but it makes me more firm in my resolve not to settle for someone i do not want to be with. i would rather be alone.
