Two pro choice arguments that frustrate me

Wow, I am pro life but I don't think abortion should be illegal. Let me address a couple points. One, I work at a crisis pregnancy center. Probably the reason two thirds of the women are getting pregnant on birth control is because they are using it wrong. I know doctors explain it when the dispense it as does the pharmacist. People choose not to listen for whatever reason. I have heard all the excuses. Women who think they can take their pill every other day, once a week, or that it is retro active. Had one girl say it made her sick to her stomach so her b/f was taking it. One girl was putting it in her vagina. The list goes on. These are the reasons birth control fail. You have to use it CORRECTLY EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Next, a lot of women are pressured into abortions. Believe it or not but especially young girls are told by their parents and b/f's that they really have no choice. We've had girls tell them their parents will kick them out if they don't abort. Or husbands who have said they will leave them if they don't abort. There is definitely pressure for some women to have abortions. Not all.

I know two people who are extremes on both sides. The pro lifer has actually adopted five special needs kids. She loves them and is a great mom. She is very anti abortion. Even in the case of something being wrong with the fetus. The pro choice woman is gay. She believes in late term abortions. She believes women should be able to abort for any reason. When the pro life friend asked her if it would be okay for someone to abort their baby because it was gay the pro choicer got very angry and said that this wasn't a birth defect. The pro lifer said to some it would be. And where do you draw the line? My point in this is that we DO have to draw a line SOMEWHERE. And the government legislates morality all the time.

Lastly, if men have no choice in the pregnancy then we need to stop telling men they are responsible for the child even if they don't want it. That's a double standard. We tell men, if I want to abort your baby I can and you have no say. If I want to have your baby you will pay for it for the next 18 years and have no say. We really need to be more realistic with our views and treatment of men.

I don't want to judge or fight with anyone but I do think abortion is a serious thing. It's not just something you do after school and it's done. It can have serious repercussions. I just think we need to look at our laws and see where we can improve. I don't want it to be illegal but I also don't want another Gosnell situation either.

 

I don't think that belief is "terrible" at all. Far from it, at least in some instances.

I personally am strongly against abortion, except in instances of rape, incest, and the life of the mother. But I can't force that belief on someone, and a woman who really wants an abortion will get one even if it were completely illegal. Not to mention the Supreme Court has already ruled on this issue, although there obviously is no actual right to abortion in the Constitution.

 

You seem to have a good perspective on these issues.

 

I am actually very conservative on most issues. That doesn't mean I'm Republican though since I don't agree with them 100% either. I am gay, and I am on the board of directors of an organization fighting for LGBT rights.
Having said all of that, abortion is way down on my list of priorities. If I were the father (impossible since I am married to a man), I would express my thoughts that we should keep the child, however the women would get final say in my opinion. Abortion is so far down on my list it would most likely never sway my vote one way or another in voting for someone. There are much more important views in my opinion. The top 3 on my list are supporting the 2nd ammendment, legalizing same sex marriage in all 50 states, and Employment non-discrimination for LGBT people.

 

Lol, I'm not punishing anyone, they're punishing themselves if they don't want kids yet don't take the proper precautions to prevent it from happening. So freaking dramatic :roflmao:

 

But you implied that you believe people should be punished for unprotected sex. There are many (only relatively) more sane arguments against abortion you could use, but that an unwanted child is a 'punishment' for unprotected sex is absurd/appalling.

Also, by being someone who opposes the right of a woman to abortion, you are the one who is seeking to 'punish' them, actually.

 

What I meant by this is that the government shouldn't ban abortion when it's the woman's personal choice on what to do with her body.

 

I'm implying that there are consequences for every action a person takes. It's common sense. Like I know if I go eat the chocolate sunday in my kitchen, I'm going to gain weight. If I do it anyway, should anyone feel sorry for me? No. Unless someone shoved that sunday down my throat, it was my choice to gain that weight. I'm just saying that people need to take some responsibility for what they choose to do with their bodies. I'm not seeking to punish women, after all, I support adoption. But ending a child's life because you were careless? Seems a bit silly in my opinion.

 

If I had got a woman pregnant and she had decided to keep the baby but decided not to have anything to do with me, then it would still be my responsibility to provide for the child in any way I could. Even if it meant I would suffer to the point of financial ruin, I'd still do what I could. I'd never just walk away as if it was not my concern.
I know a couple of guys that have nothing to do with their kids (like my dad walked away from my sister and I when we were still toddlers).

 

Explicitly no. But I do believe that the 9th Amendment secures the fundamental right to privacy which includes your sexual and reproductive matters. I'm not entirely sure how they said the Due Process clause invokes that, but in my own opinion, the 9th Amendment grants the right to privacy.

 

Well, talking about consequences sounds a lot better than talking about punishment, but I'd never argue in a general sense that people who suffer consequences for bad decisions can't deserve sympathy also. Think about AIDS for example since there are parallels here re contraception.

For accidental pregnancy specifically; people do dumb things, it doesn't mean they always deserve what's coming to them for it. When there are options available which avert those consequences ie abortion, there is a choice of whether or not to force someone to live with the consequences of their mistakes; this is when we are talking about punishment.

But, I guess the fundamental difference in our opinions on this is informed by that you feel a fertilised egg the day after intercourse constitutes a child, but I don't. Whilst neither of us would (obviously) advocate killing an unwanted child post birth, we're basically not going to agree as long as you hold the (frankly ridiculous imo) belief that a fertilised egg has the same rights as a living breathing child, or adult for that matter.

 

I don't think it does, but hey, the Supreme Court has made up a ton of shit in many other cases as well.

 

Hmm. I never heard those arguments seriously used to defend it tbh. I've definitely heard them before though, & they're just stupid. I am pro choice though. I wouldn't encourage abortion but I feel the option should always be there. I can't imagine what 9 months of going through a pregnancy while being mentally drained can do to someone. I also feel life is something that can support itself. I do see what you mean though. The "what if he's gay" thing is something the left tries to mock the right with.

 

The government legislates morality all the time, but that doesn't mean they do it correctly. Just because it's a law doesn't mean it's moral; this is why gay marriage is still an issue, among other examples. It's simple where you draw the line; you want the most fair outcome for the most possible people. That's what law is for; to protect the people by providing resources for the most fair outcomes. The more you limit people's ability to make their own life decisions, in general, the less fair the outcome will be for the bigger number of people, especially when we're talking about access to medical procedures. If you tie people's hands, they can't make the best decision for their individual case.

That's an interesting point. I agree with you here, in that if you assume having an abortion is being "irresponsible" for the child, this is a double standard. But I think that's a faulty assumption, for the reason explained below.

Also, if the man wants a choice in the pregnancy, he should have a voice in the decision, but I don't think it's a double standard to give the ultimate say to the mother who will have to go through with the physical process of the pregnancy. He shouldn't have the ultimate say in what she does with her body; just as she should have the ultimate say in whether or not her body is used for sex in the first place.

People who make that choice don't generally treat it as anything other than a serious thing, and those who do shouldn't be having children anyway. You'd just be punishing the child if you kept those people from having abortions. If you value the life of the child so much, that should mean something to you.