Anti vaccination movement

Re. this ridiculous mercury issue (which at this point is pretty much a non-issue anyway):

There are two kinds of mercury: methylmercury (like you find in fish, it is very toxic and builds up in the body [yet we still eat fish]), and ethylmercury (the kind in thimerosal, which has been taken out of pretty much all vaccines except the flu vaccine, and degrades very fast in the body).

Here's what the CDC has to say about it: CDC - FAQ Thimerosal (Ethylmercury) - Vaccine Safety

I don't remember where I read this, but thimerosal was taken out from vaccines as a precautionary measure. Since methylmercury is so dangerous and people were freaking out over ethylmercury, too, they decided to get rid of all of it by selling the vaccines in pre-filled, disposable syringes instead of multi-dose vials, which were a risk for contamination, hence the need to use thimerosal to inhibit any germs from growing in the vial.

Issue settled.

---------- Post added 28th Mar 2014 at 06:42 PM ----------

Yes but to be fair, he can take it up to 72 hours (I think, don't quote me on the exact number of hours) after potential exposure to the toxin. So if he steps on a dirty nail that goes through his foot (ouch!), he has time to go to his local clinic and get it and be just fine.

Would probably be better to just get it before anything happens, mind you.

 

Just so you know, I have iron-deficiency anemia and I have to take iron supplements. So, yes, I most certainly noticed "the iron on the back of my cereal box".
Don't compare mercury to iron just because they're both metals. It's like comparing a kid's fruit juice to alchohol.

My mother might have led me to believe that there is much more mercury in vaccines.
Mercury in small amounts isn't harmful, but still, why do they need it in vaccines in the first place? The thing that prevents you from getting the illness is a weakened version of the virus. Do they use mercury as a perservative or something?

 

Yes, that's exactly what they used it for.

 

Ditto

 

So if I have this right there are people thick and paranoid enough to believe Jenny McCarthy's anti vaccine crap over what actual boffins say on the subject.

If you need me I'll be in a corner quietly sobbing while trying to work out whether or not this is as bad or worse than the anti MMR stuff over here.

 

Exactly. I got in a long argument on Facebook in a natural living group I'm in when someone decided to post a question asking for opinions on vaccines....

Literally, it does not matter AT ALL to them, because the 'big long scary-sounding things' they don't understand in vaccines frighten them more than the possibility of their own child getting a horrible possibly deadly disease, and none that I've seen have the background in biology, chemistry, or immunology to understand that a lot of their claims are ridiculous and a lot of their studies they're trying to make their point with are just bad science.

The fact that their kid may or may not magically get autism from a little poke is more upsetting to them that the thought that their child could contract and be crippled by or die from an entirely preventable disease, or that they're putting a large group of people who CAN'T be vaccinated who rely on herd immunity to remain safe at risk by not vaccinating their kids. Its utter fanatacism, there's no rationale behind it, and it means that folks are getting unnecessarily sick and dying. There is very little that gets me more angry than that - when a person's ignorance puts large groups of people at risk, including the ones they claim they're trying to protect.


It upsets me further, as someone who is considered to be on the autistic spectrum (at least by some professionals, because there's not always consensus around NVLD, but I'm not going to get into that right now), that they would rather risk their child DYING OF PREVENTABLE DISEASE than being autistic. Like autism is somehow the end of the world. I understand that neurotypical is the ideal to most people and that autism can be very problematic and debilitating in certain cases (i.e.: extreme sensory issues and the like). And I understand that there are challenges that people on the autism spectrum face that neurotypical folks don't because the world is built for the neurotypical. But that line of thought, that you're better off risking a horrible preventable disease that may cripple or kill you than 'possibly' (not really, but, you know, in their heads) getting autism just.... its astounding, and hurtful, and it bothers me even more. There's so much about the whole anti-vaccine movement that really really upsets me. And because these people aren't being logical or rational, because they're misguided, because they've got themselves SO CONVINCED that they're right, they won't listen even when these kinds of outbreaks crop up.

 

I was speaking generally about the anti-vax movement and the arguments they use. They used to specify mercury, and when that was debunked, they started using the phrase "heavy metals" .... though I have yet to be told what metals they're worried about now. My statement about iron was meant to be hyperbolic.

Yes, it was used as a preservative.

 

Natural selection at work...

Unfortunately unvaccinated people are a risk to everyone around them too, not just themselves.

 

First make kids have vaccines to go to school.
Now the people lacking common sense are getting themselves out of the gene pool.

 

There was no way you could have known I was iron-anemic.
All I was doing was acknowledging both sides of the arguement, which was the right thing to do considering I'm not an expert on the subject. I may not know as much about vaccines as you guys, but I know a lot more than you'd expect the slightly-brainwashed offspring of an extreme anti-vax woman to know.

 

^ I can see the flames already.

You can't catch autism.
It's a medical condition that people are born with.
It is genetic and not a disease because it's not caused by pathogens.
The anti-vaccination people tend to be the type who cannot comprehend this.

 

You know why no one vaccinates their kids:



Because they're nitwits, Charlie.

Anyway, sure. I get it. Maintain your rights to let your kids die of measels. Because that's what we do in the U-S of A, right? We listen to idiot celebrities and let formerly eradicated illnesses come creeping back.

 

OK, I'll say it one more time. I wasn't talking to you. I was commenting in general about the anti-vax propaganda. You brought up information that you were told by anti-vax people, but it wasn't your information. You didn't start this. I was addressing the myths, not you. If you were the catalyst for all of the "mercury and heavy metals in vaccines" propaganda out there, I would absolutely talk to you as if you were a complete dipshit. Luckily, you aren't that person, and I don't think you're a dipshit.

 

It's happened in England to. People just buy into the media

 

Parents should not have the right to choose to harm their child. A child is not property.

 

If you watch that entire episode, they later touch on the other thing that my aunt has bought into, that vaccines are just a huge part of a massive global medical conspiracy, that doctors and Merck and Pfizer are all plotting to keep us sick so we keep coming back to the doctors and buying their medications.

It wasn't until I came to college that I realized that she's 100 cents short of a dollar.

 

One of my friends posted this on Facebook. I LOVED it!


When This Anti-Vaccine Image Went Viral, an Immunologist Responded

 

Refusing to have your children vaccinated or refusing to give them medical attention should be a form of child abuse.

There's also this AMAZING Penn and Teller video on vaccinations.

[YOUTUBE]RfdZTZQvuCo[/YOUTUBE]

 

Thank you.
I'm sorry for the way that I acted. I've been very moody for the past few days, and I realize that I was way too defensive in the conversation.

 

I used to be a little bit anti vaccination to be honest. Or, a lot. but since I've been a student, and have looked at the evidence base its changed my mind. When you think that not one study exists to support the fact that vaccines are harmful (aside from rare side effects) or cause autism its pretty conclusive. And as a future nurse, I just cant be anti-vaccination - not today.

I think its good to be sceptical and to question everything. But some things are just open and shut cases.