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How is Obama different from Bush?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Techno Kid, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. Simple Thoughts

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    #1: It would have been a real war if it weren't for...wait for it...Vladamir Putin. That's right, the Russian homophobe prevented the war that Obama was in the middle of declaring. Seriously, does no one else remember that speech where he literally 'declared war' on Syria? Anyone?

    #10: It's a much more disturbing, disgusting, ruthless form of military that has killed hundreds of children.
     
  2. BryanM

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    Social Policy: Better
    Foreign Policy: MUCH BETTER, could improve
    Economic Policy: Better
     
  3. Foxface

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    U of I UC doin great with insurance

    If you want my honest opinion...it's time we adopt socialized healthcare.

    I am on the Veteran's plan due to my military service. Because of my prior tax bracket I was on the 8th tier which means absolutely no copays at all. One day I walked in with a kidney stone attacking me...worst pain ever. I was treated, operated on and given medication. A few months I had carpal tunnel surgery to correct over a decade of terrible pain and fatigue. I get an expensive medication to help me with Cyclothymia and next week I am going to see my therapist again.

    Every single time I walked out of those surgeries or appointments I walked away feeling better physically or emotionally and knowing that I wold never see a bill. I say this not to brag to you all. The military was a very hard experience but do you know what it's like to not worry about medical bankruptcy and 40,000 dollars of surgical bills? All I had to do was focus on healing.

    I want that for EVERYONE...I mean every single person. I know it would cost money...it would cost taxes but imagine for a moment if you had to pay extra on your taxes and yet never had to worry about a hospital bill which believe me costs WAY more than a tax increase

    Obama has done so many things wrong. I know, I voted the man in twice but he's taken steps towards social progress and that I stand behind. I don't care for his diplomatic tactics in every circumstance but I still don't believe he compares to Bush
     
  4. Simple Thoughts

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    I actually support his healthcare policy myself ^.^

    It's one of the few things I support. Though not in the same terms as everyone else.

    I like his healthcare reform because it's a Start. It's not perfect, in fact I hear it has quite a lot of faults, but you know what? Before that we didn't have any kind of healthcare really, at least nothing good. I just hope they don't 'leave the job for done' I'm hoping they tweak it and make adjustments every step of the way until it's a working system, but I dunno if they will. I just hope they do.
     
  5. sldanlm

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    Perhaps I missed it, but has anyone mentioned the fact that Obama and Bush are like night and day when it comes to LGBT issues? In whose presidency did DADT end in the military for just one example. When my former partner was risking her life over in Iraq we had to be careful what we said on skype or emails (which were all monitored) lest she get into trouble.
     
  6. Stridenttube

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    No, just no. Heck, I know two people here on EC whos plans were cancelled. Guess what!?! The government shouldn't decide whose plans are "sub par." College students need what they can afford and most colleges had plans that worked great. A ton of them got cancelled. It's all BS, My aunt and uncle had to buy there plan on the exchange, they're paying over 10k a year for insurance, insane!!!!

    It's a terrible law and most of the unknown regulations are still to come.

    Plus, I got dropped by my doctor thanks to the law, and it was right in the middle of a ton of tests.
     
  7. Sarcastic Luck

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    I happen to like the fact that I won't get denied for having a pre-existing condition.
     
  8. Stridenttube

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    I like how young adults can stay on their parents plan until they turn 26.
     
  9. Sitri

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    I don't understand the problem with drones. They are certainly not perfect, but it seems like people forgot what we did before those. You think normal soldiers are much better? Civillian casualty numbers in the Iraq war say otherwise. Most drone work is actually surveillance. Admittedly my source may be a bit biased (a drone pilot).

    As for the NSA, am I the only one who was not surprised? Maybe I'm too paranoid. Too me, if you don't suspect the government of some massive shady conspiracy, you are living in the pre Nixon-papers (first time America learned the government was lying to us) world.
     
  10. setnyx

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    imo obama needs to be cut a little slack here. it took 2 bushs to get us into all this. he is only one man and definitely not a bush.
     
  11. Simple Thoughts

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    The problem with drones is actually 2 things for me.

    1.) They seem to be used primarily on children in Yemen. The only time I hear about any kind of drone strikes civillians were the targets -.-'

    2.) When you can fly some unmanned drones around there is no 'refusing orders' because it's remote controlled, and that makes me iffy about who is controlling them. I get worried thinking that they could easily be turned against us -.-'

    As for the NSA. Yeah, a lot of us knew before it was revealed. Guess what though? That doesn't really excuse it. It still needs to be done away with. Completely.
     
  12. DesertTortoise

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    They spell their names different.

    Corporate fascists and mass murderers, both.

    ... and don't tell me queer marriage (a bone for the votes and money of assimilationists) is a fair trade for blowing children to bloody pieces.
     
    #32 DesertTortoise, Feb 23, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  13. An Gentleman

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  14. Mike92

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    Obama and Bush are more similar than people think. However, Obama's foreign policy has been much better than Bush's, for the most part.

    ---------- Post added 23rd Feb 2014 at 11:13 PM ----------

    I may be a Republican, but I don't let that get in the way of facts.

    The NSA and Patriot Act were compliments of Bush, and his neoconservative foreign policy compared to Obama's was an utter catastrophic failure. It's not even close. Not to mention Bush absolutely made the deficit skyrocket with a huge tax cut and two wars. His No Child Left Behind Act was pretty bad as well. In many ways, Bush wasn't conservative at all. As for the Affordable Care Act, that was originally a conservative plan.

    I am by no means an Obama fan, but he has been a better overall president than Bush, although the bar wasn't set too high.
     
    #34 Mike92, Feb 23, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  15. AwesomGaytheist

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    The problem is that it's not universal health care. Everyone is required to buy private insurance and the plans have to be a certain quality. Now it wasn't a lie when Obama said, "If you like your plan you can keep it," he just wasn't counting on so many people liking their shitty insurance plans that didn't cover squat. The main theme among these "Obamacare horror stories" the GOP is running in commercials all over the country, including one about Julie right here in Michigan who has cancer, is that none of these people got on the exchange and got coverage, or they're unlucky enough to live in a red state that's refusing to expand Medicaid and open an exchange.

    So in other words, their main message is for 2014 is, "We screwed you out of getting health coverage because we hate the President so damn much, so vote for us!"

    The real problem with health care is the inflated costs that the hospitals are charging that the insurance companies are, for some reason, willing to pay. Hospitals will bill your insurance $100 for an aspirin tablet that cost them around 4 cents. Hyperinflation of costs has directly caused health insurance premiums to rise over the last 50 years and has netted the Cleveland Clinic a nearly $1 trillion profit last year.

    I say we have strict cost ceilings and say to the hospitals, this is what you can charge for each service and each medication, and so on and so forth and not a dime more. Then say to the insurance companies, everybody and everything that's actually health-related (Cosmetic surgeries need not apply) must be covered at zero-copay, meaning it doesn't cost you anything out-of-pocket.

    Now, An Gentleman, this is the logic behind the ballot measure that will be voted on in California in 2014 that says hospitals can't charge the patient more than 25% more than what it actually cost them to deliver the care, and says that these "not for profit" CEOs can't make more than the salary of the President of the United States: $450,000 per year.
     
    #35 AwesomGaytheist, Feb 23, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  16. Simple Thoughts

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    It's nice to blame the republicans for the problems, but two things bug me about that approach.

    1.) From day 1 in office the republicans have blocked and fought against every single thing he did or tried to do. The moment he got health insurance passed he should have been more than aware that they'd do anything they could to stop people from having access to it. There was no way these types of moves were 'unexpected' so I'm wondering...why make the promise when he either couldn't stop the republicans or just let them do what they wanted? 0.0

    2.) If he says 'Your coverage won't be dropped' and your coverage gets dropped. That's called lying. His statement doesn't match the reality. Plain and Simple. -.-'

    Oh and this is not me giving the republicans a pass. I just want to say that here and now.

    I'm just tired of the "pointing fingers" game. The dems blame the republicans and the republicans blame the dems. Ultimately nothing gets done on either side because everyone is too busy blaming the other guy for the problems. I'm sick of it >.>

    Someone needs to just shut the heck up take whatever share of the responsibility is theirs then start making a plan to fix some of the crap that's wrong with this country -.-'
     
  17. Rakkaus

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    Well Obama is marginally less bad than Bush, but considering what a total clusterfuck the Bush regime was, it's pretty damn hard to be worse than Bush.

    In general there is not much difference between Democrats and Republicans on a lot of issues, particularly foreign policy and economic issues. Which are pretty freaking major issues.

    Of course there are huge gaps in terms of social issues, especially gay rights.

    The Democrats have been the gay-friendlier party of the two since at least 1972, when George McGovern brought women, gays, minorities, youth into the Democratic coalition even as he lost in a landslide, paving the way for the victorious Obama coalition.

    But for a long-time we were seen as a political liability and the best we could say was that the Democrats didn't actively hate on us, they preferred to just not talk about us, while the Republicans scored big political points by publicly bashing us. In fact George W. Bush was finally actually elected president in 2004 by putting anti-gay marriage amendments on state ballots across America to drive social conservative Christians to the polls, and tying John Kerry to gay marriage- even though Kerry didn't support marriage equality.

    But since 2012, the Democratic Party has established itself firmly as the party of LGBTQ rights in America, while the Republican Party has already long entrenched itself as the vehemently anti-gay party.

    When it comes to gay rights, the differences are huge. If John McCain had won the White House in 2008, he would have appointed two conservative Supreme Court justices to SCOTUS, and we would have lost the last two big cases, and the gay equality side probably wouldn't have a chance of winning a case at SCOTUS for another generation.

    Also as the first African-American president coming out for same-sex marriage, the ramifications have been huge in changing public opinion among black Americans from being overwhelmingly anti-gay to increased acceptance of LGBTQ people.

    The Obama Admin's pro-gay stance has also carried over into foreign policy and our relations with other nations. I guarantee you that a President Romney and his national security adviser would not have called up the president of Uganda to tell him not to sign the anti-gay bill being proposed there right now. (Nor would it have carried as much weight as a call from Barack Obama, with homosexuality being seen as a "white" cultural imperialist thing in Africa)

    While the differences in other areas are small, I'm always reminded of Noam Chomsky's quote back from 2004 when asked why he was suggesting voters in swing states vote for John Kerry over George W. Bush when there was very little difference between them:

    “Despite the limited differences both domestically and internationally, there are differences. In a system of immense power, small differences can translate into large outcomes.”

    I don't like the core economic and foreign policies of Barack Obama, which are indeed very similar to those of Bush, so overall I disapprove of his administration. I don't live in a swing state, I've never been faced with a dilemma, so I voted Green for Jill Stein in the last election. Unfortunately our "two-party" system does not leave American voters much power to effect real change.
     
  18. Mike92

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    The first Bush wasn't all that bad, and certainly nothing like his son.
     
  19. I strongly agree with this. Bush sr f*cked our country up. Bush sr actually tried to keep the deficit from going out of wack. I would definitely vote for him if I could. Also, Bush sr was either apolitical or supportive of gay marriage since he willingly came to a wedding between a female couple.

    Sorry for the rambling, but Obama actually took measures to sign in laws to fight against LGBT discrimination. Obama helped my parents get covered through the ACA and his foreign policy is MUCH better, promoting diversity. Obama boosted up border security, slightly lowering undocumented immigration.

    Bush was an awful president. As a progressive Democrat, he gave Republicans a bad image by doubling our deficit and going to war with the WRONG country.

    However to smooth things out, Obama and Bush jr are the same when it comes to diplomacy. They both rather resort to war and drones instead of negotiating and promoting diplomacy.
     
  20. Foxface

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    #40 Foxface, Feb 23, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014