Letting yourself feel

Nice to meet you

 

Unique,

I know. Doesn't it feel great?

And I keep coming back to this thread to see more comments, because it speaks to me so much.

Best wishes to you as your new, but not so different, self.

/Ed.

 

This IS a special thread. I feel that this is really getting to the heart of my problem and hopefully for many others too.

I find myself incredibly angry and terribly sad simultaneously.

Two words keep coming up for me - "work" and "how". I'm super practical and though I know that this work will take time, I still don't know how to think differently. All I know is fear, hiding, etc. HOW does one FEEL? HOW does one allow someone else in? HOW does one stop being so guarded? HOW does one fall in love? I'm frequently accused of being too much in my head, but whatever, that's just how I think. I need steps to work on, a work-out plan, a checklist. I DON'T FUCKING KNOW HOW TO FEEL. Is that an oxymoron - knowing and feeling? All I feel is anxiety, fear, dread, sadness and extreme anger, oh and a good amount of regret.

I have no guardrails, no ability to know the way, no map, no rules, no experience, no sense. All I do know is self-preservation. I'm pretty fucked up I guess. Goddamned religion. Goddamned shitty-ass family. Goddamn it all. Ok, more angry than sad.

 

I was putting a lot of thought into this thread.

The sentiment of "not knowing how to feel" is really common. I think that being gay--or questioning one's sexual orientation--can destroy the sense of "self." There is this stark contrast between feeling like "me" versus something that was (or is) condemned by our families, communities, and religions.

Some people end up in a "rejection/immersion" phase: "everything I do is gay." They reject everything from their past and embrace being gay at every moment.

Others lose their sense of self so severely that they put themselves at risk with unsafe sex, or drown their pain with substance abuse.

And then there are the rest of us.

I hate being gay, but I just kind of deal with it. I don't like to talk about it, nor have I found many places to talk.

But there is a double shame for those of us who are a bit older. I watch younger people come out of the closet, and they seem so nonchalant. It's certainly not true for everyone, but I've watched 18- and 19-year-olds say, "Oh, I came out to my parents, I have a new boyfriend, etc." It would be disingenuous for me to say that I'm "totally happy for them." No, I'm quite jealous. I WANT to say how delighted I am, but I'm sadly a bit bitter.

For those of us who are roughly my age, we grew up with unthinkable TV images of people dying of AIDS, angry AIDS protestors, and media-crafted images of gay people who didn't seem much like us at all... they gay people on the TV news were in parades and died really young. It was so hard to think, "I'm like them." I was convinced that I was going to get AIDS just because I liked guys. It seemed inevitable. And then I'd somehow be compelled to strip off my clothing and wave a rainbow flag. That's who gay people were--according to TV.

Decades later, there is this notion that everything is settled. With marriage equality, the end of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," among other victories, there is the appearance that being gay is now just like a day in the Magic Kingdom. Although it still marks progress, the TV images are perhaps too happy. The gay people on TV are having mass weddings, embraced by their families, and otherwise happy to be alive.

It's hard to explain to well-meaning straight friends that I'm not Anderson Cooper (or Ellen), and that social change doesn't mean that we're all just blessed with inner peace and companionship.

If this sounds depressing, I didn't want to bring you down. But I try to figure out WHY it's so frustrating and depressing. Yes, RunnerRunner, there is no map, no sense. And sometimes self-preservation is all that's left.

 

Yes, then there are the rest of us. The deniers, the fitting-in-ers, the settlers for what we can just to not be alone. Until we stop denying, stop trying to fit in, stop settling. That's where I am now.

I don't hate being gay, and I'm ready to face it. I hate that I've hurt someone so close to me, that I've allowed my own self-loathing and denial to cause so much damage. But I know why I did it. I've made peace with that in an amazingly short time. Now I have to make peace with the enormity of the fact that I did do it.

And I expect, from the one reaction I've had, that I too will trouble finding places to talk about this. (See below.)

I get this. See my earlier thread about how I suddenly came to this moment in my life. I don't think I'm bitter, and I'm truly happy for the joy I see in the eyes of these two young men in my life. But I'm so f**king envious of them! That they should have so easily what I denied myself for so long.

I know. There were a couple moments in my life when I might have been brave enough to risk it all to be myself. The first was in my mid-20's, as a young teacher in CA. But that was the time of Anita Bryant. (Remember that one? Michele Bachman reminds me of her, but that's another conversation for another time.) That was when she campaigned for Proposition 2, which would have caused the immediate firing of gay public school teachers. And all I had ever wanted to do was teach.

The second was in my late 30's or early 40's, but then, still in CA but no longer teaching (yet another story), the AIDS epidemic hit in full force, epicenter Bay Area. It has felt that the world conspired. That I was always in the wrong place at the wrong time.
But here I am at last, honest with myself, and feeding off EC like a starved child; like this scared little boy that stares back at me still in that 1st-grade school photo of myself.

I'm not there yet. None of my straight acquaintances know yet. But I've already gotten that "so what's the big deal" look from a 55-year-old friend whose been out his whole life. Even he doesn't get it!

But maybe there's still hope. I hope. I have to hope.

 

I am bi and gender-fluid and I feel similar to the Op in some cases.

I do not allow myself to truly act or behave naturally as I feel, this is probably because I am still really far in the closet.

Especially when it comes to my female-ish feeling days because I was born male so when I feel like that, I am too afraid to wear what I want or act how I want or express femininity.
Some times though "She" slips out whether I like it or not, I mean for Christs sake I believe in a Mother Goddess who is a hermaphrodite that sired all of creation including Christ and I believe Yahweh the god of Israel is wicked, so of course it probably manifests in other areas of my life than I am aware, but that doesn't change the fact that to me, my beliefs are a truth that I feel convinced of because my Goddess sends me Visions.

Sorry for the rant, I go off topic allot. It's an Az thing....

 

Boy...

I can still remember myself as a teen in the 70's. So concernered when I bent my wrist in that stereotypical gay fashion. So paranoid, so self conscious. Did anybody see that? So guarded not to get involved with anything "gay" (based on how gay was depicted, again not me). Always having a cover story, avoiding talks about girls, being so careful not to be caught enjoying looking at a guy. In hindsight and by today's standards it was insane. But that was then, this is now.

But that time was so fundamental to shaping me.

I do not hate being gay, I hate how the 70's and the closet shaped me. The biggest part of that was not being caught. That meant 24/7/365 high alert not to be associated with anything gay.

It angers and FRUSTRATES me to this day I cannot enjoy the company of a effeminate or flamboyant stereotypical gay. My preference is firmly set in masculine gays, average guy gays. God that infuriates me but I may as well try to unlearn liking chocolate. How do you unlearn an emotional scar developed over your formative years of hiding you are gay?

I want to stop for a second... To all you guys who are effeminate or stereotypical in some way, I know how lowly my behaviour was/is. I feel horrid about my past behaviour, dirty about it. I am heartfully sorry. I not only internally avoided you I denied myself some good friends (loves) along the way. You know there is nothing wrong with you, I know it too. My closet simply twisted me this way and I have no understanding how to undue it. That is my monster to deal with and emotionally it seems invincible. Again, I apologize.

I belong to a universalist church which is very gay friendly. They offer Intereeave which is a gay support/social group. So I went looking for a chapter in MA. Not a single chapter in the whole State! MA is uber progressive but I know all my gay friends suffer to some degree. Crap I suffer. So I asked my minister why there were no local chapters of Interweave (or any other adult gay support/social group. I was told by the minister they were not needed anymore. I wanted to scream at him. He has no understanding of the problems gays face.

I wonder too if in progressive States it is just assumed there is no gay suffering and gays are too afraid to raise a hand and say "I am suffering" and be socially embarrassed (once again) because hey, the State is progressive and no gay problems exist anymore.

If you are a teen there is help but by magic all adult gay scars are healed.

Funny, all the gays I know in my age group have gay issues.

I am supposed to free so why do I feel so trapped?

Tom

 

I know I'm a newbie here, but I'm such an old newbie...

This thread, and the comments on the one I started, have been the most meaningful to me in my short time here on EC. My thread, because I could finally say things I've been afraid to say most of my life, and this one, because it speaks to the core of my dilemma, and apparently, to the dilemma of so many here.

We survived by walling our external selves from an essential internal truth. I think achieving that goal requires that we shut down the act of "feeling" in basic ways. It feels as though we've split our very existence in two, so we spend a good part of our lives not feeling "whole." And how can we truly feel when we're living in this state?

I keep saying "we" here, because I've never existed in a community of such kindred spirits before. Am I projecting my own feelings on you? If so, I hope you'll tell me. I have so much to learn, not just about what we have in common, but about the circumstances that make each of our situations different.

Yesterday afternoon, my wife and I had our first real conversation about what's going on between us. We talked for over an hour, and at the end, I was the one crying. (And I mean crying--not just tears dropping slowly, not just sobbing quietly, but crying until I could barely catch my breath. Someday soon, I may talk more about that conversation, but not now.

But you know, I am whole again. In what I think is the most important way. I can feel again, because my internal and external selves are finally joined again. In the words of Popeye the Sailor, "I yam what I yam."

I don't know where I'm going or where I'll end up. I don't know whether there's even a real destination. I just know that I'm on this journey, that all of me is on this journey, that I'm walking down this road as one person, not two. At least, for me, for this moment, that is enough.

 

Hi StillAround,

No doubt about it, you are tribe. Run through a similar crucible of experience.

Not a blessed thing different about you than anybody else here.

Stories matter little as they all boil down to a couple of basic themes.

I now believe my childhood friend who reports over 800 sexual hook-ups with no emotional connections differs little from the gay man who has never had sex. Whether we cloak ourselves with fear, denial, shame, or emotionally disconnected orgies it all boils down to avoidance of emotional rejection. We know rejection all too well being social outliers to the herd which rejects us on many levels.

Scared people, wanting to be loved, doing anything to give ourselves the illusion of love and avoiding rejection, yet again.

StillAround... WELCOME, you are tribe here. No gay left behind.

Tom

---------- Post added 28th Jan 2014 at 07:40 AM ----------



---------- Post added 28th Jan 2014 at 07:44 AM ----------

 

Kid President's Letter To A Person On Their First Day Here - YouTube

 

Thank you. Two words, uttered again and again every day. But maybe with never as much feeling as today. Thank you.

I do feel like tribe here. I've never felt like I even had a tribe until 9 days ago. I can't begin to describe (just as surely as I know I don't have to describe) how it feels to be tribe.

One thing to add... To be loved, we have to be known. I suppose, for those of us who've lived in the closet so long, that is the crux.

And thanks for the video. I've already shared it.

God, this is such a great thread!

Ed.

 

Wow, this thread really hits home for me.

One thing I've been thinking about lately is that only recently (the last few years) I've been able to actually allow myself to really look at guys, talk to (gay) friends about how good-looking a guy is, look at pictures of hot guys with no feelings of guilt, and so on.

Before, I was out to myself and knew I liked guys, but wouldn't even allow myself to consciously think or talk about finding men attractive, admiring the male body, etc. That was reserved for private "fantasy" thoughts.

I also used to think I was "incapable of love," as I had shut down all my positive emotions to hide being gay. Not only did I lose that everyday kind of joy from life, but I grew fiercely independent, so as to avoid attachment to others. After all, if being gay is wrong, I couldn't allow myself to get attached to a guy. But I also couldn't allow myself to be attached to anyone else, lest they find out and throw me away at the drop of a hat. I learned to deny and bury any sort of fun, flirtatious, or friendly emotions ... the kinds that might actually result a guy liking me.

And, +1000 for what BlueSky224 said. I remember the same stuff on TV about gay men - guys dying of AIDS-related complications, ACT-UP demonstrations, pride parades - and didn't see my own future in any of that. But TV crews always go for the shocking / sensational images, which did our community a big disservice. I don't think that "even bad publicity is good publicity."

It's not lost on me today that people remember pride parades and ACT-UP demonstrations on TV, but seldom anything about the AIDS Quilt (which, when assembled, covered the entire National Mall). That was a quieter yet more powerful demonstration of the devastation that HIV/AIDS has caused - and not only in the gay community.

Today, my opinions are much more accommodating of the behavior of the ACT-UP protesters in the '80s and '90s. As documented in "As the Band Played On," conservative politicians and ego-driven academic researchers orchestrated a delayed, inept response to the AIDS epidemic in the USA. Until the late 1990s (about 15-16 years after HIV was discovered), there really were no effective treatments. This was (and still is) a matter of life and death, and when the powers-that-be ignore it, sometimes more drastic action is required to call attention to the issue.

I've also learned to like flamboyant / nelly guys more. As skiff mentioned, the closet creates negative attitudes toward nelly guys. In my case, I found I was a lot more comfortable with flamboyant guys in an all-gay setting. That reveals that it's the closet, the act of hiding being gay from others, that breeds this discomfort, contempt, or aversion.

I, too, am secretly jealous of all the guys who can come out safely at age 16. I'll never know what it's like to live in a world where being gay truly is no big deal.

 

Piano71,

I ache reading your words. I wish I'd written them.

Thanks.

 

Ok people...

We know who we are now. We are literally Peter Pan's "lost boys", only now we are found!

Who has the Never-Never Land t-shirts.

I am serious. We need a club jacket and "Lost Boy Found" works wonders for my soul.

Happy thought time!

 

I truly regret distancing myself from my more feminine and uber-masculine brothers. I have dismissed you as the "other" the painted birds. I've avoided you, because you threatened my concept of masculinity. You didn't fit in my world when I considered myself straight, and now that I'm out I've not wanted you to be included with whatever it is I've become. Then I got pegged with the label "bear". From what I've read acceptance is an important factor. Something I'm working on and the gay men's chorus has exposed men to these brothers as individual people and not the the social pariahs I thought they were. I'm sure my comeuppance will be being tarred with the same brush. So I beg your forgiveness.

On different note, like Runnerrunner and others I'm angry, angry at hurting so many dear to me, angry that I've been shamed, angry that I find myself alone and lonely. I wish I less feeling. I cry frequently, my therapist says I'm grieving. So many last time events. Putting away Christmas, discussing who gets what, what about the kids. This is my only family. I'm an only, and my folks are gone.

 

I am aching .. Reading this great thread...

 

tscott -

Glad you joined a gay men's chorus. I sang in one off-and-on for several years. One thing I liked was that the chorus had a variety of men, so the usual splitting by body-type or age group did not happen (an age range of early 20s to mid-70s was there).

The best holiday concert I attended last December was the one the local gay chorus put on. And in a hopeful sign for integration - the audience was only about 1/3 to 1/2 gay.

 

I have read through this entire chain three times just because it is so powerful and contains so much wisdom. I have been trapped by my own fear...half-in and half-out of the closet for some months now. I dread going back in, but can't seem to summon the courage and quiet the fears that would allow me to fully emerge as who I am for the entire world to see. I am out to my wife for about 10 months, but can't seem to end my dependence on this current relationship, even though it no longer brings me the sort of joy I desire for myself. I have been working with my therapist around the issues of shame and that seems to be helping, but the progress is slow. I don't have anyone heaping shame on me....I'm just doing it to myself. I do feel the shame beginning to lessen its grip and someday soon, the real me will be standing on the other side of the door and probably wondering what it was that I was fearing. That day...I too will use the dancing bananas in my message.

 

Thanks piano71...I've found the samething...It's a united body of every look, age, color...Everyone is friendly, I realize I am new...I felt like a visitor to a Southern Baptist, but I had already signed up for the choir:lol:...I went with one group to a bar afterwards and the next week to a gay coffee house I didn't know existed...Plus I'm singing in a group again...I haven't done that in six years or so.

 

skiff

Saw the video...in tears...I need ro remember never to mss an opportunity to sing or dance.

Thanks...Lost Boys Found...Forever.

tscott