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Age?

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by skiff, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. skiff

    skiff Guest

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    Hi,

    Age... That is a question that comes up in my mind. I don't want to debate a 50 year old dating a 20 year old. Nor do I want to discuss "age doesn't matter in matters if love". I would like to discuss this more relatably and pragmatically.

    Take my age 55... A friend gave me homework of joining a online dating site as he felt I was moving too slow. These sites all ask for a match age range. I put 48 to 58.

    Funny bit is I was asked to dinner and a movie by somebody I know outside of online dating who is 40. I am not sure yet if this is a date or simply friends going out to have fun (hate that bit of missing info).

    So what is the pragmatic age gap? Yeah, flukes happen but this is reality where 95% of the time flukes are flukes.

    Any discussion on this and again "reality" not "philosophical".

    (&&&)

    Thanks,
    Tom

    ---------- Post added 17th Jan 2014 at 09:44 AM ----------

    Face it... Finding somebody in the gay community is it a numbers game. My generation lost a lot of numbers to HIV/AIDS.

    Is it like looking fore a needle in a haystack that has caught fre for my generation?
     
  2. piano71

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    Age is just a number. While it is unlikely that a romance between a 55-year-old and 21-year-old will last forever, I think the reality is more complex.

    Physical aging is about health and what your body can do. Emotional maturity is about wisdom and perspective on life.

    I think those factors are more important in determining compatibility than just comparing age.

    There is one other factor, particularly for LTRs - and that's end-of-life issues. If you date someone 25 years older than yourself, they'll be approaching death while you're still in middle age. But this is less of an issue with a 5- to 10-year difference.

    And as for the dinner/movie: It kind of looks like a date, but if it's your first time going out with him, he's looking to get to know you better. Maybe he wants to be "more than friends" and is trying to nudge things along. You'll get a better indication as the evening progresses.
     
  3. Chip

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    Age isn't just a number; not only are there end-of-life issues, but with larger age gaps where the younger person is under 30, there are a lot of issues likely to cause the relationship to fail: generational differences in interests, attitudes, etc, power and control dynamics, financial stability, and so forth.

    That said, a 15 year difference at 55 doesn't mean much. There may still be the end-of-life issues, but realistically, health factors can impact someone at 40 or at 80; I know 75 year olds who are incredibly fit, active, and healthy in every way, and I know people in their mid-30s who are falling apart.

    I'd also agree about the dinner/movie: it could be either, but in any case is probably a "get to know" so I'd treat it as such, and if something more develops from it that you feel good about... that's great!
     
  4. Mogget

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    I always felt the "divide your age in half and add seven" rule for a lower age limit and "subtract seven and multiply by two" rule for an upper age limit worked fairly well.
     
  5. Filip

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    To look at it totally pragmatically, I dislike using numbers.

    I think it's more about shared background and experiences.
    Because, when it comes down to it, most of your time in a relationship isn't going to be spent looking wistfully into each other's eyes or making love or being all lovey-dovey. A lot of it is spent hanging out and talking. And making plans to coordinate your lives.

    And I think it isn't a stretch to say that sharing a lot of experiences are what makes it gel. When I talk to my boyfriend, a lot of the time we use experiences to make a point. And what makes that work well is that they often run in parrallel. We both did the same stuff at about the same time in our lives, several events or movies had the same impact on us, and when we lack certain knowledge or experience we often lack it together, so we share our "firsts".

    Also, when I don't know what he's thinking, having somewhat the same set of experiences often makes me able to give a vague idea of what he'd think or say anyway.
    The more you share, the more it's likely to get you through tough times.

    Now, I'm not saying that you can't have that across age divides. Also, when you get older, the added experience in each year grows less and less. Between 10 and 15 you probably have many more "firsts" and defining experiences than between 40 and 50.

    But... I couldn't really imagine having a relationship with someone whose life experience is totally out of sync with my own. Initial attraction... maybe. But to keep a relationship running, even in the tough times, it takes more than that. The more you have in common, the less hurdles you have to take (and risk falling over).

    OK, sort of philosophical, but I felt like typing it out anyway!
     
  6. skiff

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    Agreed.

    Gay men who went through hetero marriage are much more likely to sync with me.

    See TEDtalks "fifty shades of gay"
     
    #6 skiff, Jan 18, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  7. DesertTortoise

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    Of course age makes a difference. I grew up in a different world, a different universe, than most of the people in my circles. My memories and experiences, they know only from books. How I think of my body, end of life--having to deal with increasing physical limitations, all of this is just reality for me. I've been banged up and put back together, but in very good shape, have great stamina, energy--at the most creative and productive stage of my life--but even that means something very different than it would have 30 or 40 years ago. Generational differences matter. Less so when the gap is much closer, but those 10 or 15 years from early adolescence to our early/mid 20's shape us, and the way we experience our world in ways--that no matter how much we change and grow over the years--remain touchstones of our lives.
    I'm not talking philosophy. This is real stuff. Yes, we can have profound, loving, long term inter-generational relationships, where those differences are not barriers, but nourish the partnership... when they're acknowledged, open and a part it. "Age is only a number" don't cut it! For each one of us, it's maybe more subtle than sexuality, at least when we're still young, but it's every bit as important a part of who and what we are!
    So my reality check on age difference goes like this. Don't pretend it doesn't make a difference--cause if you do, you'll be in denial of something profoundly important, and that's not good in any relationship. But if each partner is comfortable with themselves (and that means, if you're older... dealing with the self-consciousness of having an aging body to compare with a younger one), and with your partner--for what they are. Well, then I guess it's like any other difference. Except that with age, living in this cult of youth as we do, it's something that we are bound to be both hyper-conscious of, and in denial of what it actually means and how it affects us... not unlike race, in that respect.
    Thoughts from a queer septuagenarian...
     
    #7 DesertTortoise, Jan 18, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  8. skiff

    skiff Guest

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    Awesome response!
     
  9. HopeFloats

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    I'm 38 (almost 39) and my girlfriend is 51. We had to consider and talk about our age difference- especially because I have a young child. But for us, the age difference is not a big deal. I already had friends her age so it's not like I had to make adjustments to understand her points of reference.
     
  10. Lexington

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    It's a continuum. Somebody my agewould presumably relate well with me on that level. Somebody five years older or younger a bit less so, somebody ten years older or younger even less so, and so forth. It would come down to how well we meshed in all other aspects. Age isn't nothin' but a number - it's nothin' but a factor. One of many.

    Lex
     
  11. Richie.

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    I am drawn towards older guys, and wouldn't be out off someone in their fiftys...
     
  12. skiff

    skiff Guest

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    Ok... Richie,

    Any number of EC mods and Admins would say the younger man is mentally ill, ripe to taken advantage of, and the older man taking advantage of the younger man.

    Are you mentally ill, ripe to be taken advantage of because an older man does not put you off?

    I pay little heed to the agendas of self appointed experts and your pov interests me.

    Both 30 and 40 year olds have shown interest in me but to date I have not responded, so being able to ask your opinion anonymously is great.

    I would suspect some small percentage of such pairings are unhealthy but the vast majority are healthy. The bias against not unlike the bigotry against mixed cultural/race bondings. Out-groups simply not being accepted.

    Tom
     
  13. Chip

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    Tom grossly mischaracterizes what many of our staff have said, as well as the basis for saying it.

    First, by the time the younger person in an older/younger relationship hits his or her late 20s/early 30s, many of the issues that cause problems with older/younger relationships have subsided. The primary issues most likely to cause problems are the differences in life experience, income, and similar factors that lead to a significant power imbalance. Secondary problems are culture/generational differences, but those exist for many other reasons in addition to age, so aren't really relevant to discuss here.

    Second, the incidence of problems in age-gap relationships (at least the types that those of us at EC are concerned about, specifically ones where the younger person is in his mid-20s or younger) is well documented in the psych literature, and nearly every therapist who works extensively with clients in age-gap relationships can describe the issues, which tend to be recurring and consistent, and not correlated with other psychological issues for which someone would come to therapy. So rather than coming from self-appointed experts, this body of knowledge is coming from those who work with and study these populations as a profession.

    Third, at least based on what we know, it is not a small percentage of the types of relationships I'm speaking of, at least based on the information that's known. It appears to be a pretty pervasive problem. There are certainly exceptions, but on the whole, the experiences of those who work with those populations indicate it's a pretty hefty portion of such relationships. It's definitely an area that would benefit from further study, but the information we have now appears to be consistent across different groups (researchers, clinicians, sociologists) who have studied it, from what I've seen.

    It's easy to claim it's just a bias based on bigotry, but in this case, there's a lot of people with a lot of experience, information, and research that supports the idea that this issue is problematic for many.
     
  14. skiff

    skiff Guest

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    Makes you wonder... How many age-gap relationships which are happy, which don't have issues never end up sitting with a therapist or visiting EC.

    When you collect data from a biased pool the data results are biased.

    It would be like saying every open gay person is troubled because EC reflects all gays. EC reflects only a small demographic. Sadly it could a lot happier demographic.
     
  15. Geek

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    Doesn't always work though but sometimes it does.

    Example: someone is 18. So that'd be 16 to 22.
    Someone is 50 that'd be 32 and 86.

    I don't know about you, but i'd think it's sort of odd for a 50 year old to be dating someone older than their parents...
     
  16. dano218

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    I tried to avoid this thread but that seems impossible. What people don't understand it does not matter what some statistics say or what psychologists say. If your in a relationship with someone who happens to be older in than your and your deeply in love with them you are gonna defend that relationship no matter if your in the minority or your a outlier experience. All I want to say I am a 23 year old in a relationship with 46 year old kind mature mentally sane man who loves much as much as i love him and age does not matter it work for us and we want to get married and be together forever. That is all I am saying and all though statistics say differently I defend my right to say that I am the happiest I ever been in my life with a man who just happens to be older than me. Love is love period.
     
  17. Chip

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    Of course, anyone looking at a data set such as people that are coming to EC or visiting a therapist is looking at a biased sample. As you stated, people that are totally happy and everything is wonderful probably aren't visiting therapists or online support communities.

    However, they still show up in research studies, and the therapists that see people for general (non-relationship) issues will still hear about what's going on in relationships.

    Additionally, there's plenty of data looking at relationships of all types and levels of function/healthiness to identify the types of issues that are the biggest cause of relationship problems, and some of the biggest factors are found disproportionately in age-gap relationships. So we actually do have enough data from the relationship literature to draw some pretty reliable inferences, and those inferences, in turn, are borne out by the clinical experience of therapists as well as by the studies that have been done.

    There's also a bias on the other side: people will often report that a relationship is healthy when it is not because some people feel shame about admitting that they're in a bad or unhealthy relationship. At its extreme, this is very well documented in "battered spouse" situations. So, to be fair, if we're going to look at the bias of people only going to therapy when they are having problems, we also have to look at the bias of people's reluctance to report problems.

    Researchers who study the field are pretty good at identifying these sorts of biases and doing their best to control for them, and the best studies speak very frankly about the limitations of the methodology.

    So, in short, no dataset is perfect, but there's enough data, from enough different sources, from a wide enough and diverse enough sample of people, to be able to say and/or infer with a fair amount of reliability on this issue. And what we know is that the prevalence of problems with age-gap relationships, particularly among those where the younger person is under 25 or so, is not an occasional or rarely-found problem. That doesn't mean that all such relationships are doomed to fail, or that the younger person is mentally ill or any of the other misrepresentations of what I and others have said you mentioned above. But it does indicate that problems are likely to be prevalent in those sorts of relationships.
     
  18. skiff

    skiff Guest

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    Hi,

    I defer to people's common sense...

    Tonight watch the evening news. Watch a liberal, conservative and international broadcast so it is "balanced". Then answer the question "how much good is in the world?".

    Do it a week, a month, a year and based strictly on the news there is very little good in the world.

    The world is not bad, good is simply woefully unreported.

    Many of you are here because you want to learn how to tap into the good of life which is out there, but you have not found yet.

    Life is not the evening news or the sample it represents.
     
  19. Cool Bananas

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    I would date/see/ get intimate with a guy who was 55,

    So go out and meet this guy, you will learn something from every meeting, it maybe the case that you are just not attracted to guys that young, but he might say or do something that you think it rather nice and hope that when you meet someone closer to your age range it will be something you like.

    I added in a online dating profile that my age range was 40-70 but my ideal was someone around 50, but my age isn't really set in stone.
     
  20. Incognito10

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    Two major highlights come to mind for me on this topic:

    1). As mentioned previously, it is more about shared experiences and mindsets that will contribute to the success of the relationship than it is about the actual age.

    With that said;

    2). I think age is less of an issue as both parties advance in age, especially when both are out of their twenties, because that is such a volatile time and research shows the frontal lobe, our decision maker in our brain, doesn't even fully develop until about 25. Therefore, it really doesn't matter much if one individual is 45 and the other is 55, but when you start discussing one individual being 21 and the other 31, there are going to be some major developmental as well as life experience differences, in most instances.