The Objectification of Lesbians

Re: The Ojectification of Lesbians

Welcome to the community, sister!

Yes, I think that there is objectification of lesbians and multisexual women. I was not really aware of the practice you're talking about, and it's good to know. It definitely expanded my horizons. The objectification that I was aware of was not so much that as it was that lesbians are the object of the male gaze.

I don't have any scholarly sources to hand on this, but I remember having read about it numerous times in both feminist and queer academic literature.

[Syster Adrian]

 

I had no problem with being a beautiful girl's experiment in college.

That being said, the issue has become so popular that terms like "lesbian until graduation" have been coined and used in articles like this, which talks about a study that claims attending college has no effect on the likelihood of an individual having a same-sex experience.

 

I guess it depends on the situation and the people involved. It takes two to tango, so while the lesbians/multisexual women are being exploited, they're still willing participants. Some people enjoy being used, or are in it solely for sexual gratification.

 

I think this issue is present in various forms across the whole spectrum of sexualities and orientations, certain people seem to just focus on the physical aspects of sex and never find the emotional bonds that are all so important.

This tends to lead to people being used/finding it hard to sort through the idiots to find someone who loves them for who they are on the inside.

This is all why I focus my orientation onto who I can bond with fully based on who they are internally, not based on what they happen to look like physically.

 

I think being a lesbian is a good and bad thing simultaneously. One the one hand we def have is easier than gay men, and always have in history. Sodomy laws were rarely enforced on women, and even today in countries where they are forced, its mostly on men. We've had "Boston Marriages" here in the USA since the 1800s and lesbians were ignored.

THe downside to this is that we are not taken seriously, especially femmes. In a patriarchal society, what pleases men is allowed, and two women together is a man's fantasy, thus the reason lesbians have been left alone when gay men/transmen/transwomen have been victimized more. This isnt to say lesbians haven't been victims of hatred and hate crimes, but in governmental legislation and enforcement, it is to a lesser extent in western cultures. When drafting laws in europe, one ruler of the U.K. was UNABLE to even address lesbianism when mentioning moral laws.
We've had more visibility in the media, as we seem "less threatening" but we are also not taken as seriously. Straight women are almost "expected" have lesbian experiences in college as if sexuality is a fluke.

Its a good and bad thing. While i like the fact I am less likely to get harassed with threatening words on a street than my male counterparts, I also am MORE likely to get harassed with sexual innuendo's from men on the street.

PS: I've been used and it hurt once, because I REALLY liked the girl.

*Note if a woman you have a crush on is drinking...DON'T take her up on the offer*

 

I take it seriously and I dislike it, but there are upsides to it as i pointed out in my post. We are less likely to get called names, and we have always had it easier when it comes to the law.

I am angered by the fact that my partner and I were once at a restaurant for valentines day and while waiting for valet this guy was ehind us, creepily staring. When I turned to ask him waht, he smiled and blew a kiss. WTF?

Yes its annoying. Its harsh, but the reality is that without this "objectification" Boston marriages, and the freedom that we lesbians have had in contrast to gay men, wouldn't exist.
We live in a patriarchal world. And the fact that men objectify us, mean we were subjected to sodomy laws. In other parts of the world, lesbians are left alone.

---------- Post added 4th Oct 2013 at 10:50 AM ----------

Also there is a difference between lesbian, bisexual women and heteroflexible women.

Television plays up the heteroflexible and bisxseual part as part of a patriarchal society. In which women are sexual flexible and it feeds a mans ego and fantasy.
I've had one friend who slept with a woman as an experiment and I told her it wasnt cool, but she insist that the woman knew she wasnt gay or even bi.

We too have to take responsibility for being with women who arent "lesbian" if we know they arent.

 

Many straight men get a voyeuristic thrill from watching two lesbians have sex. They tend to imagine that they are the man that can turn a lesbian straight. Women that experiment the way you said only encourage this fantasy.

 

I have never objectified lesbians. If I've scanned lesbian porn, I've felt like the unwanted party ... like if I walked onto the set, the action would stop. And I'm not making a comment about my appearance. LOL.

When I learned there were homosexual men, I assumed the reciprocal existed among women, and let it go at that.

The guy who thinks he can convert a lesbian is both delusional and egotistical.

 

You're more than welcome to take your "scholarly" ways to another forum, but I'm sure somebody will come around who shares the same opinions as you.

God forbid you come to a forum you're too good for.

 

I didn't even realise lesbians were objectified. Yeah there's the fantasy that a lot of straight guys have. But everyone has fantasies. Maybe I need to do more research.

 

I suppose I could take offense to the use of "bisexual" in your opening post - you know because bisexual women have a hard time being taken seriously too; or are equally if not more so objectified by a hetro-male culture and fantasy-ego-stroking media.

But you seem to be wanting people to agree and be angry about something that many are acknowledging exists but are also saying that it goes a bit deeper (in some instances at least). There are some lesbians who had to find out in college or later in life what their sexual feelings really were. You can hardly blame them for testing the waters as much as a hetrosexual female can lay claim to being 'bisexual' because she had to see for herself as well what her sexual feelings really were.

There is objectification in media, but in general, US media is still fumbling around trying to find out what is acceptable viewing, and the stories to air. UK media haven't had this as a problem so much, with quite a few gay/lesbian themed programmes being aired (and not all about who is in bed with whom) - maybe that is where you should start your discussion.

 

Searching any good journal is difficult because they are, usually, non-profits and you need to be willing to pay for the PDF. Sorry, but I'm just not going to do that.

 

Hey there,

THANK YOU. I've been thinking about this for a while.

For a long time I didn't even know what gay was let alone lesbian. When I did think of gay I would automatically picture gay men. Lesbian used to be a term that I thought of as some type of transitional phase for women who were abused. Gay men on the other hand, I was trained to view as legitimate. Silly right? Yes, I know, especially considering that I came out as a lesbian a couple years later. I will say something, I am very keen on learning about gay men, bisexuals and transgender people....I do find though for whatever reason, even though it seems like there are loads of representation for gay men as well as pretty much every gay club and event being particularly oriented towards gay men...everyone else is more left behind....the transgendered community I'd have to say is catered to the least....but anyway, back to lesbians....

I don't really buy that whole "being a gay man is a million times harder than being a lesbian" thing...don't get me wrong...I can agree that on average gay men are more likely to be physically attacked but I do think that a lot of distinct lesbian problems are really not advertised as much.

1) the first one which you said.......we are taken as a joke and as objects by straight women. I find it amazing that not that many people have responded about this. It is appalling to me how many straight girls have come up to me with an intention to have "fun" and then once it comes to being open to the public about where they were on day x they hide it so far in the closet that I get drowned in dismantled rainbows.....

2) I just recently posted a thread on the lines of "Close straight female friendships and lesbians" which addresses the ambiguity of relationships between women. I have heard women from all walks of life tell me that they think "women are so hot" and that "girl on girl is so hot". At the same time, it seems like whatever a woman does it is deemed as "straight".....friends have touched me inappropriately saying that they were "playing"...it's almost like they can full-out make out with you and then still go on saying that what they did was "heterosexual" by nature. So where is the line drawn? When I flirt I'm always assumed as being "friendly"...heaven forbid I actually want to go home to a woman!...this leads to so much heartbreak and confusion..it's just ugly and not straight forward

3) as you can probably conclude from all of this....female sexual orientation is not taken seriously and is viewed as "innocent". Because all of this stuff is really for men's enjoyment right? I've had so many men still pursue me aggressively even though I told them I'm a lesbian. It seemed like that made things worse and they accused me of just "playing hard to get" and "not really a lesbian"....I've had them try to kiss me and get their hands on me even though I said no Im a lesbian. How many straight women sexually harass gay men? Honestly, I don't like, when a man or woman or anyone in the queer spectrum keeps pursuing me even when I clearly state NO. I've had straight men who I barely even know send me lesbian porn....this aggressive fetishization of lesbians can really be downright threatening.....the last thing I would want is to get forced on....whether it be a straight man or woman.......

4) there is still this silly idea in society that women "need" dick and cannot achieve anything sexual without it. So it's almost like a straight girl, when having sex with a lesbian, wouldn't view that as "real" and therefore would go ahead and do the dirty deed...only to ignore the lesbian or queer woman the next day..because it wasn't real right??

You know what my family told me when I came out? You need to have sex with a man. There is this constant push on lesbians to be straight even when they are out.....usually a gay man needs to come out once and people respect it...with women on the flip side....it's this constant push like "yes, I'm a lesbian...stop telling me it's a phase"....basically the lesbian dating world can be a total mess some times...

rant done.
sorry that it was long. But YES I agree with you!

 

I can definitely agree that the level of discussion could certainly be raised, but do you really expect scared people in their early teens are going to have some sort of third wave feminist/queer theory enlightenment?

Not every queer is politically conscious and college educated.

 

Do you think this exploitation is really a consequence of sexual orientation? Surely it has more to do with the moral character of the exploiter, and the resilience of the exploitee?

That's a little harsh, and a bit overgeneralised. This is surely not the case with all experimentation. I've known straight women who cherish their past homosexual experience with a lesbian friend. And their friend cherishes it turn.

What you think 'being treated seriously' is not necessarily the same for everyone else. What you consider degrading, others might view completely differently - for example, as educational, as temporary flings/fun, as flights of fancy or moments of intense shared affection.

I detect the projection of a particular value system onto the LGBT world. But I think it is important if you want to pursue this matter in an academic way to state your value system in explicit terms, and justify thoroughly why you think it ought to be the case. You're making normative claims about respect which correlate very closely with more conservative views of monogamy. Why shouldn't straight men take pleasure in lesbian sexuality? Why shouldn't straight women explore their sexuality beyond the boundaries of their orientation label? Why shouldn't lesbian women enjoy being the object of straight male sexual attention?

Just because you find it problematic, it doesn't mean the rest of the world should. So methinks your high horse is unnecessary here.

If you don't like being objectified, used by straight women for attention/experimentation, then the solution is simple:

Don't get involved with those people.

But if you do get involved with people like that, then it seems unfair to turn on them and blame them exclusively.

Ultimately you've gotta be the change you wanna see in the world, not shout at the world with rage and fury that falls on unsympathetic ears.

 

I don't think it's as easy as to decide to "not get involved with those people". That's like saying, there are homophobes but you can just "not get involved with those people"; as though one shouldn't have a serious discussion about this issue. Unfortunately, what the poster mentioned above is actually a REAL problem for us queer ladies (but less so for the men). This is especially true because some times we just can't tell who are the fakes and who are the genuine takers!

This "I kissed a girl and I liked it" Katy Perry syndrome...where a queer lady is used as a toy and left is a real phenomenon. Sorry, but it really is all too present in our society. In fact, 50% of the women I've gone out with have boyfriends and were planning on using me as a toy on the side or as an experiment just to say to their sorority sisters I did "x" with a lesbian! Now, can you imagine how that would feel to you, you know how hard it is to find gay people let alone gay people you actually like-like, you know that, now picture you were so excited to go on a date with someone only to figure out they see you as a totally illegitimate romantic partner? You're just a toy...some one to play with...ignore the next day....by that person who you thought liked you....but they really just liked the thrill but the next day they're off to their heteronormative life and you're dead to them. How would you feel?

How would you feel if half of your dating pool was cluttered with people who pretend to show interest in you but really would be too scared to even acknowledge you in public?

So, yes, the poster has a point. As a lesbian who has way too many experiences of this kind I actually applaud her for bringing up this topic.