Writing

It's a compendium of everybody I've interacted with, really. It's almost like a slide show, depending on the topic and relevance. I think it's amazing what a handful of years can do in enabling a person to better read and communicate with people. The difference between where I was at the very beginning of college and after two years in the adult workforce, with regard to these skills, was astounding to me.

 

Dear Greatwhale,

Having deep and meaningful conversations are indeed rare these days, perhaps because electronic media have imposed a more shallow and faster type of exchanging ideas. I'm not sure it is necessarily worse, because as Labov (a linguist) showed in the sixties, simply because people use different codes, does not mean they are less effective in achieving their communicative goals. I had some but not too many of these meaningful conversations, but I don't mind having them now and then. Many times simple and more shallow conversations can also serve a good purpose. Writing of course is a slower process and provides more opportunity to think before putting it to words (most of the time). EC is indeed a forum where people can relate to each other by expressing their worries, ideas, feelings or support to other members. I don't know about souls (in fact, I don't think such things exist but that's a different story), but I do find that readings stories that connect to my experiences help me to put things in perspective. I always enjoy your contributions because you seek balance in opinions and finding the larger picture. I think that is a good way of approaching many of the issues we face, because we can easily get lost in the minutia of daily frustrations and our anxiety of dealing with the many challenges being queer, especially when coming out. So, thanks for bringing this up and I look forward to more of these philosophical topics

 

One problem with conversation in the US might just be how divided we've gotten, and, with people whom we know, we feel obligated to avoid rocking the boat. Obviously this is mostly a political issue, but it certainly rears its ugly head in other contexts.

 

I'm not sure I even need one hand to count...

I've had conversations--ones of value, ones with some intelligence--but nothing really deep and meaningful.

I have an unfinished novel that's been half-dead for several years now. One of the real problems that I recall was the issue of intelligent conversation. The characters are college students, and several of them have intelligent conversation and a bottle of cheap wine each Friday night. But how do you write this intelligent conversation when it's not been your experience--certainly not recently? It's almost as bad as writing a sex scene when you haven't had sex. (In both cases, you just have the events take place "off stage" as much as possible.")

 

Hi Greatwhale, a communicative goal can be very broad, it is not just about getting the message across. So, a memo might serve the latter purpose, but being uni-lateral, it is a very restricted type of communication (as I sure you will agree ;-). The kind of thought-provoking and potentially life-changing interaction no doubts serves a communicative goal, although that doesn't mean that from the onset both parties are aware of that ;-)

 

It may be better elsewhere... At least one could hope.

I remember reading an op-ed piece about 10 years ago by a woman who lived in France at one point. I'm thinking as a student in--again I think--the 60s. And over there she found more willingness to talk, even over divisive issues. She knew one person in particular who'd hear an opinion, and rather than fight back, immediately ask, "Why do you think that?" Not as a sarcastic line, but rather "I want to understand better."

 

Oh, yes...as far as who I have in mind as I write my drivel, er, forum posts, I generally don't have any vision in mind. Part of this is practical--this is the Internet, and anyone can read this. Then I have had enough writing published now that I'm used to the idea of anyone reading what I say.

 

I think we are too busy texting, e-mailing, blogging, message-boarding, instant anything etc to stop and have a real conversation anymore. Never mind a deep, meaningful one. I saw a pic once of a basket at the door of a house party. There was a note on it that said something along the lines of "pay attention to the friends who are here". (you were to put your cell phones, blackberries, iphones, etc in the basket)
I've had a few of those deep, meaningful conversations and they still are with me today. But I agree with you GW, it's been a long time and I long for them. However, I think each of us will have a different definition of "meaningful".
100 years ago, people had no choice but to write a letter. No phones, no computers, no e-mails, no instant anything. And in this letter you had to surmise a month's worth of a whole family's life. If it was a love letter, you had to, essentially, put emotions and feelings on to paper. Which is harder? Putting your emotions into words on paper that are clear and meaningful enough that the reader will understand or saying them in person and fighting nerves?

I'm a linguistic student and I'm astonished how much language has changed. Both written and spoken/signed. But I must remember how much a)technology has changed and b) the need/use for language has changed.

 

It might be time for you to book that flight to Europe!

You'd think that there would have to be people capable of conversation here.

I'm now trying to remember the last time I had any sort of conversation that wasn't light and fluffy. Truly Deep, never, but deeper than inane comments about the weather? It's been a while...

One fantasy I recall from years back involved having intelligent people over for intelligent conversation and tea. (I think the idea might have been my mother's fantasy originally, although she'd probably have been more likely to opt for coffee.)

 

I, too, long for deep conversations and courageous discourse, but I find many people are uncomfortable engaging in this type of dialogue -- just as I am often uncomfortable and frustrated trying to join informal, everyday conversations (it's that introversion thing). Really good conversations value careful listening as much as (or more than) speaking, yet I feel many conversations I hear are little more than shallow talk, noise for the sake of filling what is perceived as uncomfortable silence. I do enjoy having conversations, but it's often tough to find others who don't mind a strenuous journey down a steep verbal path with unexpected twists and turns.

Writing gives me a chance to think things through more thoroughly and express myself more completely. Although it takes time, I think my writing better represents who I am and what I'm trying to convey than my spoken words do. My writing is the distillation of my thought jumble into something cohesive and comprehensible. It's an outlet for the feelings and thoughts that I sometimes have difficulty expressing verbally.

Here in EC, the process of writing my thoughts and responding to others is giving me a chance to sort out all of the dialogue in my head regarding coming out, being out, and living well as a gay male. It's helping me crystallize the crazy mixture of how's, why's, and what-if's that tumble around in my brain so that I can start having meaningful face-to-face conversations and building relationships.

Thank you for listening...

 

C'est vrai, plus ou moins. Et si vous avez cette espece d'experiences a Montreal, pensez comment peut etre dans les Etats-Unis.

I'm trying ... I'm trying. LOL.

 

I agree that there has been a degradation in conversation. As several others commented, electronic media has greatly changed how we (but not all of us!) interact with each other. We send short texts, we monitor and respond to electronic communication almost constantly, and we expect quick responses. These things have had a great impact, making interactions more frequent but much more shallow--because of their abbreviated nature as well as because they interrupt our other interactions. It takes time and concentration to have a meaningful conversation, and our world has less room for these.

I've heard of the book you're reading but have never read it myself. It sounds very good! It has been a while since I read a book that made me reflect on life in that way.

 

+1 greatwhale (sorry--couldn't resist a non-deep reply...) :icon_wink