Flag Burning

It's the situation. If you have a tattered and worn out flag that has served it's purpose, then you cremate it. The best comparison I can give for this situation is when someone dies, they're cremated, but lighting someone on fire that is young and still has life is generally frowned upon. I know about the monk who lit himself on fire in protest, but I'm pretty sure he regretted that after the fact even if he didn't say it.

 

That made me laugh really hard for some reason... I'm going to Hell.

 

Yay, my profile pic.

---------- Post added 26th Jul 2013 at 07:13 PM ----------

Don't worry. We'll both be tortured by Satan for this one.

 

Seriously, "Its disrespectful" is a terrible argument against anything, least of all burning a flag. Lets take another 'disrespectful' situation: Lets say I insult someone. That would be disrespectful. That disrespectfulness isn't a side effect of the insult, its the intend of it. And the same thing goes for burning a flag. Don't you think anyone burning a flag is intending to be disrespectful? Telling them so won't exactly change their mind.

I do see a difference, though. See, when you burn the young, living person, you're depriving them of their future, freedom and live, as well as causing them unnecessary suffering. Flags are inanimate objects. Thats why there shouldn't be laws against burning them.

 

It's a metaphor, though. I realize that the flag is inanimate, but in a sense it is alive. It's the physical embodiment of what our country is and what it stands for, it's one of the few things left that is actually pure of our intention. When people burn the flag they're burning a symbol of freedom. I've already said this: It's perfectly fine to disagree with some of the policies in place in this country, but if it wasn't for that country and the people who fought and died to give it to you, you wouldn't even HAVE the right to say whatever you want. You wouldn't HAVE the right to go out and burn the flag of your country. When you burn a flag you are not only burning it, but the symbol of your country, your freedoms, and your soldiers that have fought for you throughout our entire history. I've already laid my stance on the previous page.

 

Although it's perfectly legal, I'm still mostly against flag-burning for the following reasons:

1. At this point, it's overused. There was a time when there wasn't a week that went by that I didn't see a flag being burned, whether it was the US flag, the Iraq flag, the Egyptian flag, whatever. Flags were constantly being burned. You could have filled a 10-gallon ashtray with burned flags. If you want to try and offend me, find some other way. Because burning a piece of fabric just ain't doing it anymore.

2. It generalizes an ENTIRE nation when it's from another country such as Afghanistan when they burn an American flag. They're basically saying that ALL Americans are fat, ugly, stupid people with absolutely no morals whatsoever and will fuck anything that moves, and that they're ALL proud of their nation and everything it's done. When they're doing that, they're making false assumptions about thousands, if not millions of people they've never met.

I'm actually okay with it when it's a protest against their own nation. It's not a message about the ENTIRE nation, it's a message about the government of the nation, and that it's too corrupt to continue anymore. That message is one that cares about the people of the nation that are just too pissed off at the government that rules over them because of all the laws that have restricted liberty and justice. My guess is this will be North Korea in the next 20 years. I could be wrong. But with all the revolutions going on in the world, I'd expect to see the NK flag burned at least once in the next 15-20 years.

Should it be legal? Yes. It's burning fabric. Is it necessary? No. Is it serious? Somehow, yes.

Also Mer, I'm actually interested in why you did bring this topic up. You specifically because I distinctly remember having a debate with you about another First Amendment issue. Also, why you actually did. Did you see a news article or something?

 

Well I can't claim to understand such sentiments. There are many other free countries, if freedom is to be defined as the liberties americans have. I also struggle to understand this whole 'soldiers who fought for our freedom' thing. They did it because they were paid to, or because they were conscripted in some cases. And recently, they've been fighting more for oil than anything else.

I've already said I don't see much point in burning flags, and that I think its childish, but I'm not going to strongly object to someone burning the flag of the country I'm in.

 

I'd like to repeat that I love your enthusiasm and modesty and kindness in your propositions

I bolded and underlined these sentences as I want to directly discuss those

1. Yes we soldiers gave citizens that right. But that's precisely the point, it's the RIGHT to do so. I think citizens should be allowed to show their disdain for the country or policy

but more importantly...

2. I feel that burning a flag is a protest towards the country but necessarily the soldiers in the same respect that soldiers did not decide to enter into a war that many believe is all about oil. The President and leaders did that, the soldiers get used a lot in such a manner. We are bound to fight where we are told.

I believe that flag burning is a show of disdain for policy and in my ever-so-humble opinion it is not the soldiers' faults that our past leaders have started fruitless wars

but again that's just me

I love debating with you Purple

Foxface

 

I find it offensive and disrespectful and that's a fact. I'd venture to guess I'm not the only one that thinks so. It's very much legal, and I have no qualms about it being legal. Racism and homophobia are also legal and I find such things offensive and disrespectful as well.

While I support someone's right to freedom of speech and their right to burn a flag if they choose, there are more tactful ways of making a point. Burning a flag won't exactly ingratiate me to their cause and would only cause me to distance and disassociate with such a person just as I would not want to be friends with a bigot.

To summarize, if someone wants to burn a flag they can go right ahead, it's their right. They won't win brownie points with me. We won't be friends, I won't like them and they will not get any respect from me. If they were drowning or choking or in need of first aid I would attempt to save their life but only because I'm a decent human being. It doesn't mean I like them any more.

 

There is nothing wrong with freedom of speech, but burning their flag is so disrespectful. I mean how do you burn someones symbol that represents them, and expect it to be ok.

Also I don't like how some people from religion, from their own country go into others.. And tell them how they live and theirs laws are wrong, and expect them to change to suit they're standards...

 

It's simply a matter of disrespect depending on the circumstances. But I must agree that the whole flag burning thing gets thrown out of proportion. If someone wishes to burn their flag, then so be it. If someone wishes to talk down upon their country, and is in every right to do so, then so be it. I remember there was a big news story about a couple who posted an upside down American flag on their door during the re-election of Obama.. That's their opinion.. No need to sit there and make them look like terrorists or anything.

 

I merely stated that it is offensive and disrespectful to me. The fact is proven because I stated that I find it offensive and disrespectful. Never did I mention nor suggest that everyone would feel this way.

If someone wants to exercise their right to do something I find repugnant than why should I want to be friends with them?

Fortunately I haven't had to cross that road yet as none of my friends have done such a thing. Something along the same lines happened a few years back. A friend of mine made a rather long rant on facebook (a real friend, not a facebook-only friend) stating that he felt Remembrance Day was wrong because it glorified a bunch of murderers and warmongers. We are no longer friends.
It's one thing to refuse to go to a Remembrance Day service and just enjoy your day off from work as if it was just another day but it's quite another to post an insulting rant even though it was well within his right to do so.

Summary: I'm not friends with people that offend me or show such disrespect for things I deeply care about. If someone wants to make a public spectacle and burn a flag then I'm not going stop them. There are social consequences for doing such things though. Namely, it offends and angers some people and they may not like that person. To put it bluntly, if someone acts like an asshole then they shouldn't be surprised if people don't like them.

 

I find it disrespectful because burning a flag is making a sweeping statement against all under that flag, and I refuse to believe that their is all bad under any single flag. I find it offensive that someone can find pleasure in insulting other people.

 

Sure, it's and opinion of mine. What defines being an "asshole" is up to each individual to decide. Everyone's moral compass is different. There are things that bother me and at the same time others may be indifferent to those things.

Burning a flag has the potential to bother a lot people. Some may not care, and that's fine but some people do care and take offense to it and therefore it shouldn't be expected that they'll like whoever burned the flag.

 

Yeah, well me kissing a guy has the potential to bother a lot of people. Fuck them.

 

If a person wants to burn a flag, fine. Imean, the US flag is the symbol of a nation that wiped out almost the entire native population by brute force, torture and violence, and then crows on about 'freedom', like we're so much better. Gimmie a break.

Personally, I don't have the time or money to go about burning flags, but if you want to, it should be legal.

 

I will say that I find it disrespectful to me, as a former US Army soldier. However I do agree that it is a right under the First Amendment to the US Constitution. I may not choose to associate with someone who burns my countries flag, but I will not stop them from doing it, nor do I think they should be stopped. The only time I would really have a problem and do something about it is if it were MY flag, as in my personal property.

As for why people join the US Military, there are as many reasons as there are soldiers. Some want to earn money for college. Yes, all of us received a paycheck for our service, but over all it is not much for the level of responsibilities we were given, and the risks we were expected to take. No soldier joins because he wants to "fight for oil" as some have said in this thread. They join because they want to serve their country. They will respect the the Commander In Chief (President of the United States) and congress will decide on what is best for the country and are expected to follow the orders given. If in fact we are "Fighting for Oil" it is because our economy runs on oil, and if we do not have sources of it our economy will crash.

Sorry for the rant. To sum up, I agree that it is a protected right under the first amendment, however I still find it disrespectful in my opinion, not necessarily anyone elses.