No, your not wrong. I mentioned that as well.. I guess stolen was a bad word. I mean it still DOES mean happy. with a stretch, i knew it could mean "cheery", preppy etc. I know there was a time and a way it came to mean like homosexual, in fact i read an article on it, but srsly too lazy to go find it again. It started with "cheery" - "to in a campy way sorta cheery" and found its way from effeminate to homosexual. I guess i meant stolen in that it was already a neutral term technically, and it started to become a negative term without our permission... but then again who would they get permission from if they cared... Forget the point i made here. I dunno how to quote multiple people... uhm Retard is latin of ritard.(ritardando) it means (to) slow down, and its commonly used in music. Retard has always meant slow, and thus applies to mentally handicapped people as "slow". Personally, I find calling someone "slow" to be patronizing if said in a certain way. Retard isnt necessarily negative, but its used almost exclusively in a negative way... the like 2% of times i can think it isnt used negative are when band nerds make crude retard/ritard jokes, and in that song "Let's get retarded" Gay isnt used in all negative ways. In fact, the positive/neutral definitions out# the negative, but may not exactly outweigh them. I was just comparing in my own school's perspective - they think that saying "Gay" to mean stupid is alright, don't turn a cheek. But they will flip shit if someone says something is retard(ed) even more if they call someone a retard. I don't really think either word is nice, and i would discourage most people from using either as placeholders for other words... Is it that hard to say something is lame, stupid, something sucks, etc etc... I get that its learned, but i still find the term "that's so gay" to be offensive coming from most people because just the thought that a word that means homosexual has also come to mean "stupid, lame" etc etc. Ik its not ALWAYS meant from a logical standpoint... Gay=Homosexual. Gay=Stupid. Homosexual=Stupid. Even if A=B and A=C, B=/=C When i think about it in terms that many people might not make the distinction between "B" and "C" I get offended... I need to learn to simplify my posts *facepalm* Also, i use gay to mean happy and so do many people. Honestly its usually jokes about the multiple definitions like... "I'm gay!" *crowd gasps* "What? Is there something wrong with being happy" *crowd lets out sigh of relief*
I had to look up what that meant :rolle: I both appreciate and respect the sentiment, I'm not some sort of self-hating gay, but in a linguistic sense I'm not sure that I or anybody else is within their rights to say what the word does or doesn't mean when it's already changed such a ridiculous amount over the last century or two. Words and language are completely arbitrary, manmade constructions. They mean what people say they mean, and, like it or not, enough people use gay in this sense to have got it into the dictionary, so I'm not even sure that this new meaning can come under dispute. If it really offends you that much, you would be better spending your time complaining to the editors of the large national dictionaries than complaining to a bunch of LGBT people who are in the worst position out of anybody to change the usage of the word for better or worse.
Yeah, I know. It still means that in a lot of European languages as well. Presents a certain irony to the old phrase "You're not slow, you're retarded". Honestly though, I can't think of a single (modern) sense where retarded would be used in a positive way. I think there are more "PC" words for it now, because language really has moved on in all areas. Like I said before, calling somebody a retard is making a direct comparison between them and a disabled person rather than using a new classification of the word (of which there is none), unlike calling something gay which in no way draws parallels to homosexuality. I've written a hell of a lot on this topic so I don't blame everybody for not completely scrutinising it... but when of my previous points was that in between "happy" and "homosexual", gay was associated with prostitution and promiscuity. So saying that "Homosexual=stupid" is pretty much identical to saying "Prostitution and promiscuity=homosexual". It's just the evolution of language, I really don't think it means anything. This point I like... although from anecdotal experience, it does lend itself to the possibility that homophobic bullying can be passed of as calling someone happy. But in general, bravo!
I definitely don't like when people use that term. Not because it's inherently offensive, but because of the context in which it is used. When you use the term gay in reference to something bad, stupid, annoying, etc., it perpetuates the idea that being gay is as bad as whatever you are referencing and thus fuels homophobia. It's similar to how people use the word retard as an insult. It really serves to marginalize these people by implying that they are "others" and should be avoided.
[YOUTUBE]sWS0GVOQPs0[/YOUTUBE] If it's one of my cousins, I just tell them, "Don't insult half your family like that."
Good point. Typically people saying "that's so gay" isnt calling them/it homosexual... if they are purposefully doing both, then its another story. When i mean i get offended... i mean I'm silently offended that people don't know the history of the word and how it COULD be taken offensively. I don't just tell people to f*** off or something because they said the phrase.. I usually just raise my eye brows, or do something subtle. Yeah i said "not necessarily" because it doesn't have to be... but today it... yeah it really just is used negatively unfortunately "I've written a hell of a lot on this topic so I don't blame everybody for not completely scrutinising it... but when of my previous points was that in between "happy" and "homosexual", gay was associated with prostitution and promiscuity. So saying that "Homosexual=stupid" is pretty much identical to saying "Prostitution and promiscuity=homosexual". It's just the evolution of language, I really don't think it means anything." Don't some people think that though? (about the promiscuity thing... is it fair to assume part of this + media (esp. the media) has influenced that "promiscuity" stereotype?) That's the problem for me i guess. Not "everyone" makes the distinction and they sometimes just equate the two, which is wrong. That's basically what i was trying to say. This point I like... although from anecdotal experience, it does lend itself to the possibility that homophobic bullying can be passed of as calling someone happy. But in general, bravo![/QUOTE] Yeah... but that takes clever bullies :3 Honestly that kind of stuff is what would really make me mad. I would think any teacher (in my case) KNOWS they don't mean happy depending on the student saying/calling things it. I know when I'm a music teacher I won't stand for any of that... with discretion ofc...(assuming its still a problem... which i figure it will be on a lower scale ATLEAST hopefully!) I really dunno how to quote things and break them apart... someone teach me haha
LinkLarkin: i disagree with you on most of what you said. But, honestly, this isn't going anywhere cause we're not gonna change our opinion. That is obvious by now. Although, I do have to say some things that I hope you can agree on (at least partially), because some of your rationale was simply kinda wrong and I saw some double standards there. Lol. Nice way to weasel out of the discussion. Where's your good judgment? If it is such a touchy subject and it has been talked about so much (like that Wanda Sykes video (she's not the only one to participate in those)), how can there not be "enough people" to justify stopping to say that expression? Aren't there enough lgbt folk to stop all the biggotry? Let the biggotry be! We are not enough! Oh, please. Why bother with something that may be wrong when there are so many other things that may also be wrong, right? No. What about pursuing the best status quo possible? If we can change some of these things, we get closer to 'perfection' (i know, very idealistic). And we're talking meaningful and oppressed minorities here, not individuals or whatever. i know you do realize the contexts are not comparable, right? "That's so stupid" and "I ate a banana" are ridiculously unsimilar. One has a bad connotation, the other has not. I was expecting this answer and I respect it.
That's fair enough. It's beginning to strike me that this topic is much like religion. I respect your right to be offended, I just don't respect the way certain others in this thread have told us that we should be obliged to be offended as well. I don't expect you to come around to my opinion - that's really not the point of a debate - I just expect it to be recognised as a valid opinion. Yes, some people do equate promiscuity and homosexuality but that's more of an issue of general homophobia than a consequence of the history of the word. And yes, certain media outlets are definitely not on the same side as the LGBT supporters, but I don't think that's related to the evolved use of the word gay - that's just spread between young people until it's commonly used, much like many words in that there dictionary. Just to go massively off topic: I wanted to be a music teacher once. Kudos to you! Personally, I just copy and paste the opening quote bracket which contains the number of the post you're quoting, then right [/QUOTE] at the end of it.
Can we just agree to disagree? Or agree that people aren't really directly bashing gays when using that expression? I'm fine with that closure. I'm sorry if I tried to force you to be offended by the expression. That wasn't my intention; i was just stating my motives to dislike the expression and also stating why I couldn't understand how someone doesn't take it the way I do. Now I do.
Seems legit to me. I don't know what double standards you mean, but let he who is without sin cast the first stone. 1) As we've ascertained over the course of the thread, not everybody considers it to be bigotry. If you want to make it your personal battle to stop people using the phrase then be my guest, and recruit as many people from this thread as you want to, but you absolutely cannot expect everybody to join in on the crusade just because you think it should happen. 2) Like I said up there somewhere ^, there are certainly more appropriate people to be complaining to than me and the rest of the community. As I've said multiple times over the course of this thread, we face bigger issues as LGBT people than getting offended over people using "our word". Idealism is very well and good but it falls flat in the face of realism. Maybe when homophobia is eradicated then I'll join the bandwagon of "people are hurting my feelings without being remotely offensive". Not my point at all. I don't eat an apple and think about gay people just because it shares a slang name with them, why should the same go for something that annoys me? What I'm trying to get across is that, regardless of the other meanings of "fruit" and "gay", neither one of them has anything to do with homosexuality. Or are you telling me that you find "that's so gay" offensive and "that's so fruity" in the context of a fruit salad to be a massive compliment? I was expecting this answer and I respect it.[/QUOTE] Glad to hear it, thank you for an ellucidating debate. ---------- Post added 12th Jul 2013 at 01:19 AM ---------- Yes, please let's! My fingers are getting sore from typing. Honestly, I do see your point of this argument as well. I just get very tenacious sometimes. And I like a good debate. But let's save the next one for another time. Hug and make up? (*hug*)
This. Personally, the term doesn't offend me, but I think it's a stupid, immature phrase and hearing someone say it is kind of like hearing someone use a word like "wiener" instead of "penis" or something like that. That being said, the way things are going, the word will probably end up being like the word "lame;" it'll have completely lost its "original" meaning, and although I think that's stupid I've pretty much accepted it.
It used to offend me but I sorta got used to hearing it... Now it only bothers me when strangers do it. But if it's a friend most of the time it doesn't phase me
Wow k first of all i NEVER used the word 'offencive' because it DOESNT offend me it 'makes me a lil mad' thats exactly what i said in my first post...because the way many people i know that say 'thats sogay' is in a negative way so that saying doesnt make much sense. And its my opinion and thats it...oh and one more thing the reason it sometimes makes me 'a lil mad' is not because im insecure its just i dont think people should b using that saying in a negative way. Again its my opinion ---------- Post added 12th Jul 2013 at 06:41 AM ---------- I dont understand why u are/or it seems like u are reacting negativley to my opinion and because u created this thread wantin g to know peoples opinion i gave m opinion because why not right?
your opinion is your opinion and you're entitled to it. i don't mind if you find it offensive, that's your business. i was just trying to reason with it because you said she meant it as in "that's so lame." so what i was getting across was, are you offended, excuse me, mad when someone says, "that's so lame." because it's practically the same thing. there's no need to argue about it, i'm just trying to understand. but i don't. and it's all good.
