1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Lack of education among LGBT people

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Hexagon, Jul 5, 2013.

  1. Hexagon

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,558
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Earth
    I've noticed, when socialising with queer people IRL, that the vast majority seem to be as disinterested and undereducated as the general public in matters like feminism, sexuality and gender. And this truly frustrates me.

    This particularly stuck me during a conversation in which the speaker was saying how much he hated 'bisexual bottoms' because 'they're the girl with a guy, and the guy with a girl', and another time in which he said 'what, trannies?' when I tried to describe people who don't conform to gender roles.

    As far as most of the cis gay people I know IRL are concerned, you get gay and straight, transgendered people are freaks, and they haven't even seemed to thought about the role of gender, and many of the issues surrounding it. It just seems sad, like a wasted opportunity or something.

    Does anyone else get annoyed by this?
     
  2. BornInTexas

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Messages:
    1,543
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Louisiana
    Yep, my ex-friend was convinced bisexual people didn't exist, and they were just not choosing a side. As well has some of what you mentioned above. >_<

    He tried to convince a me transgender people were just extra-gay... blehhh. Glad he's gone.
     
  3. AlamoCity

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Lone Star State
    I think it's because in the LGBT community, there is an invisible totem pole that goes somewhat like this: gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and trans*. The higher you are on that totem pole, the less discrimination and problems you are likely to face in both the heterosexually dominated world and the LGBT community. For some cisgender members of the LGBT community, they only care about rights and benefits that affect them directly. That's why some organizations like HRC have gotten flak for only representing the rights of gays and lesbians and forgetting those of the trans* community. Plus, even under the LGBT umbrella doesn't mean you only like the same-sex. People in the community and in general fail to realize that gender and sex are not the same; the same goes for sexual orientation and gender identity. You can be a gay, straight, or bi trans* person.

    Up until recently, I didn't know the difference and being a cisgender gay male put me in a relatively privileged position in the LGBT umbrella. Coming to EC made me learn so much, although I will admit I have much more to learn.
     
  4. gravechild

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,425
    Likes Received:
    110
    Gender:
    Androgyne
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Are you sure this isn't one of those issues most people, regardless of orientation or gender, suffers? What I mean is even being LGBT, a lot of us are probably more concerned with our own personal lives, the here and now, much like many non-LGBT people are. We might have more incentive to be educated on these issues, but I think only a small part of the population would be on the front lines, making it their life's passion to study these issues in-depth, while many more would have at least a basic grasp and interest in them, at the very least.

    Ignorance is annoying, and it's easy to become frustrated and judgmental, until I remember that there are plenty of areas I'm not so well versed in. I take a few of these cases to try and educate the other side, while other times it's not worth even trying, let along stressing over. Do I have an obligation to be educated on LGBT issues simply because I'm LGBT? No, but it helps and I crave understanding, especially when it ties into identity, something I've always been mildly obsessed with; even before questioning, I've always questioned gender norms, never feeling quite one or the other, and seeing a lot of the nuances.

    Speaking of identity, there are huge chasms between orientation, behavior, and that (identity) so that might make educating others trickier. What I do find problematic is how injustices from the heterosexual world somehow creep into that of the gay world: sexism, racism, classism, among others. Social vacuums don't exist unfortunately, and this is one reason we have to work together to fight these issues, since they affect us all in one way or another.
     
  5. Hexagon

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,558
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Earth
    See, thats what I like about this site: You are willing to learn. And willing to accept you have more to learn. Its not a simple lack of knowledge that annoys me, but the refusal to concede there is more to learn.

    I agree with you about the cause of much of it. When I'm with transpeople, it all changes. People are more educated and aware of social issues.
     
  6. HuskyPup

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    An Igloo in Baltimore, Maryland
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    One observation I've made is that transgendered people seem much more accepted in the furry community overall, than in the 'mainstream' gay community. In fact, before becoming involved in the furry fandom, I hadn't met any transgendered friends; now I've met quite a few.

    I think many people who identify as gay/lesbian are quite understanding, but you get these showy, catty, shallow fashionista types that tend to stand out, and make gay men seem like a bunch of mindless, clamouring paparazzi, flitting from boppity nightclub to boppity nightclub, chasing whatever prize, and consumed by the next conquest. In this atmosphere, I've found that intellectualism, emotional depth and empathy are indeed at a deficit.
     
  7. Linthras

    Linthras Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Leeuwarden (FR), the Netherlands
    LGBT people are still people. But yea in some cases it is quite shocking and ignorant.
     
  8. Aldrick

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,175
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Virginia
    Hexagon -

    Absolutely, I've seen it and it drives me nuts. It's one of the reasons I've staked out such a firm and strong position and vocalize it frequently. I think it's sometimes good to challenge people's basic assumptions and the things they've been taught all their life. When people learn to question stuff like that, it's when they grow and learn the most about themselves and others.

    I think it's important to remember that the overwhelming number of LGBT people - with an exception of a very tiny minority - grew up in "traditional" families and mainstream culture. Basically, all of us were raised around people who viewed the world through a gender binary with heterosexuality as the privileged and ideal sexual orientation. Some of us were lucky to have more open minded families, but most of us were not.

    So, when we step into the greater LGBT community we're basically coming into it completely ignorant about many things - including ourselves. A lot of things that we were socialized and taught as children, we have to unlearn as adults and relearn more accurate thinking.

    One of the big things that we have to unlearn is to stop seeing the world through the lens of heterosexual privilege, and for gay men in particular - through the lens of male privilege. The first is somewhat easier to deal with because it's something we all have to confront as we come to terms with our sexual orientation. Though I think it lingers for a lot of people, as they worry whether or not they are "straight acting" (ugh).

    It's particularly sad when I see gay men who engage in biphobia, transphobia, and sexism against women. It's sad because they don't really see how badly they are actively hurting themselves, and making the world a harder place for them to live in - it's like watching a heterosexual cis-woman insulting gay men by using feminine stereotypes. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
     
  9. Boyfriend

    Boyfriend Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nevada
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Look, just because I´m into guys, doesn´t make me suddenly an expert about everybody within "the community" where people threw me in cause I fit that letter "G".
    So yeah, I´m probably pretty ignorant about a lot of things too.

    It´s a bit of a weird expectation that everybody that is not straight should know in detail how every other non straight functions.
    Ofcourse there are misunderstandings and judgements etc. It´s the real world.

    I don´t get it why people get angry over it. Not everybody is an expert in everything. Some people say stupid things. If it bothers you, you can educate those people. Or try.
     
  10. Sarcastic Luck

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    It's impossible to know how everyone wants to be treated. Some don't care and it's no big deal. Others want everything to be catered to them. This isn't something that's exclusive to the LGBT community, either.
     
  11. Hefiel

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Montréal
    I think why people are often bothered by this is lack of education is because it creates an additional layer of discrimination towards many minorities.

    So for example, it's one thing for Straight people to discriminate against LGBT in general, but when LG starts discriminating against B or T, it tends to create some tension in a group that should technically be open and accepting about these differences in sexuality or gender identity. It's the same with Fem vs. Masc in Gays or Butch vs. Fem in Lesbian.
     
  12. Boyfriend

    Boyfriend Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nevada
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    We shouldn´t expect that everybody in the GLBT community is automatically a civilized, nice person, just because they are not straight. Doesn´t make sense. Would be nice, but it doesn´t work that way.

    We are all individuals with our own backgrounds and upbringing that make us who we are. Some keep learning and are more open than others. There will always be jerks.
    There are always people that need to put others down to feel superior. It´s their character, not their sexuality speaking.
     
  13. Pret Allez

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    6,785
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Hexagon:

    Yes, I agree, it's completely unacceptable. I am absolutely amazed that whenever I find myself in a queer community of some kind, it's invariably the case that hardly anybody is feminist or thinks that there's something wrong with gender roles or norms. They also seem not to be able to understand the deep connection between heterosexism and sexism.

    I have also found, particularly on internet communities, that many queer folks say really offensive shit that a simple Google search could have told you was a really bad idea to say.
     
  14. Byron

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Arizona
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Just like you can't expect everyone to know how their government runs in detail, you can't expect everyone that falls under the LGBT spectrum to be fully aware and understanding of the spectrum. It is unrealistic to assume that everyone who falls under a specific label to be an expert in that label, especially in they fall under than label involuntarily.
     
  15. sguyc

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago
    The OP isn't talking about little misunderstandings. They are referring to the massive amount of ignorance that gays who love to reference the "LGBT Community" have for everything that's not G. There is some clear disconnect and many of the national organizations that supports "LGBT" are visibly discriminatory towards trans people especially as well as bisexuals.
     
  16. Boyfriend

    Boyfriend Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nevada
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Maybe because trans are different?
    A transperson can be gay or straight or bi or asexual, it´s not a sexuality, is it?
    And a bi person is half straight, so that´s different too.

    There IS a difference between gay and bi and trans. And some people are tolerant and other people aren´t. Some people are understanding and some people don´t care a damn.

    It´s simply not fair to expect that gay people "google things up" that they have no interest in. Why should they? Just because they are one of the letters in GLBT that someone decided to put together?
    People can express what they think, even if it´s stupid. Others can try to educate them if they feel offended by it, but just complaining that "the" gays are bad, doesn´t change a thing. And really, that is offending too. We are not a breed, we are not all the same.

    I feel you, I know that trans and bi people aren´t exactly the focus of the "fighters" or in the media, but maybe that should trigger some to form an own organisation, since the existing ones don´t seem to work so well. Or address those that you feel discriminate.


    I don´t know, I´m half asleep and maybe should post in this state of mind. But this is just my logic. I´m not emotional or passionate about the whole thing. I just fall for guys.

    And for the record, I got a funny from my uncle:"Well, your boyfriend is just like a girl! Why don´t you just go for a girl, and be normal?"
    Some people just don´t get it. I shrug or laugh.
    In this case I said :"Cause I like a penis on my partner and I already am normal".
     
    #16 Boyfriend, Jul 6, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  17. maracont

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The awkward area between bible belt and large city
    Oh my god, its so weird to see you talking about this "totem pole" after reading your comment on the post against this totem pole. :eusa_clap:lol::eusa_clap
     
  18. AlamoCity

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Lone Star State
    If you look at the time stamp, I wrote them at different times. I don't use the term as a disparaging way, but as a way to describe the sometimes sad state of affairs in the "gay community." This was written earlier and I clarified my stance later on the thread started by Gen.
     
  19. stuffiscool

    stuffiscool Guest

    It's not that we expect people to stop being selfish asshats. It's that we're frustrated at the missed opportunities for the changing of bigotry.

    Because they can be great allies. Understanding their own bigoted thought patterns is a start. And sticking up for marginalized groups when they're being slandered can help change other people's minds as well.

    Really, you are just spewing the same shit that marginalized groups get over and over again. As someone from at least one marginalized group, I am disappointed that you won't extend your compassion to other groups and instead are trying to shut us up. How would you like it if a gay man posted a thread, "Don't you hate it when straight people assume we're all effeminate? And what's bad about being effeminate anyway?" And straight posters came and said, "But not all of us think that," "Quit whining, no one cares," "But straight people have problems too," rather than admitting it's a crappy stereotype?

    Lastly,

    Please do not call bisexuals half straight. It's just a never-ending battle for bisexuals to try and prove that they're 'gay enough' to belong in the community. Bisexuals are not basically straight while in an opposite gender relationship, or basically gay in a same gender relationship (this whole judgment breaks down when talking about nonbinaries anyway). They are a completely different orientation: bisexual.
     
    #19 stuffiscool, Jul 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 6, 2013
  20. sexyalex

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,253
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kingston
    Not much to say on this topic. Really. I mean, I think i'm one of those people. I mean, generally, I care for the well-being of ALL human beings.
    But I never really too much cared for labels.

    I'm not a sociologist or an anthropologist. So I won't go around pretending to be one, nether do I have much interest in the topic. Also, it doesn't matter to me who you are, or what you are...i just can't stand unnecessary vulgarity.