My boyfriend is still "in the closet"

Well, You can trying talking to him about how you feel. That is always a good step. Because there seriously isn't much more you can do. Just express to him that you do not like feeling like his "dirty little secret." I'm sure you can appeal to some side to him.

But also keep in mind that coming out isn't easy. It can be very difficult depending on the person. So he will need his time.

 

You didn't say whether you tried bringing it up to him. He might want to come out but just be too scared or not know how. Regardless, communication is key, so I think there needs to be some conversation about this, especially if you two want to make it work.

 

Ratchet, another EC member has been posting about his longer term, very happy relationship with his BF - except that his BF isn't out and won't acknowledge their relationship with his family or friends.

I got his frustration about how much in love he is with his BF, yet how tough it it to be the "secret." He even went so far as to begin meeting other guys, but that seemed to bring him and his BF closer

I'm hoping he'll post here and wish you the best in working this out. Clearly your needs are not being met - speak from your heart when you speak with your BF, and let him know how this makes you feel.

 

I agree with the other posters that you have to talk to him about it.

A little while ago I was like your boyfriend, and I honestly didn't know how hard it was on my boyfriend to be the 'secret'. It wasn't until he got emotional about it and told me the truth about how he felt -- he hadn't before because he understood and didn't want to push me --, that I realized how difficult it was for him, and that something had to change.

So tell him. It may be obvious to you, and perhaps he knows unconciously as well, but he may not get exactly how hard this is on you. Don't expect him to start coming out right away, but at least he'll probably start considering it when he knows about how you feel.

 

Yes, tell him. But don't be impatient and tell him to come out right away. Not every coming out went smooth like your experience. Some can ruin one's life. Sometimes it's just better to keep it secret. Considering the people around him I think it's a good decision not to come out just yet.
Maybe even after you tell him, he still won't come out, but unless there's a big problem with that just leave it be. After talking you'd know how he really feels. Don't think that you're his guilty secret or something.

 

Some people can have very deep seated reasons for not coming out.. I am sure it would help to talk more and let him open up as what the issues are. Then you can work on it jointly. That way you can both be on the same path together rather than the tensions between you

 

I thnk it's great to talk about your feelings with him, and to try to gain a greater understanding of his thoughts and feelings also. But don't assume that better communication will change his mind.
The bottom line is that HE has to live his life, not you. If he has every reason to believe that the cost of coming out is simply too high in return for what rewards it offers, if he knows that his life would change in ways so profound that it would no longer be possible for him to function, if he simply cannot bring himself to dismantle his life in order to make his sexual life visible to others---then he can't. It doesn't mean he is ashamed of who you are, it means that life/society/family have him so boxed in he simply can't make those massive changes. For some of us, it would literally be easier to fake our own deaths than to come out and try to continue on with our lives.
In fact, although I don't mean to come off as negative, for a lot of us one single day spent speaking nothing but the brutal truth would get us fired, estranged from our families, half our friends, and kicked out of our social groups.
It doesn't mean he doesn't love you. It simply means that if he trashes his entire life, things won't be any better for anyone, they will in fact get much much worse.

 

You're in a really tough situation. You hate being his 'dirty little secret,' because of how it makes you feel. But you really care for the guy. You must, as you uprooted your life to be with him.

What you should do is open a dialogue with him. Be sure that you talk out your feelings about being treated as his dirty little secret, and his fears about coming out of the closet. Whatever you do, don't pressure him into coming out. That would only damage your relationship. Just be sure that you both understand where the other is at.

 

Oh, Chip....I try so hard to never get confrontational at this site, because that is not the purpose of it, and it doesn't help in most cases. But in this case, I have to respectfully disagree with your sweeping statement. I will agree with you that for *many* people it is "probably" true, but not for everyone. Think of how many people there are in the world....To assume that the same feelings will occur for all of them in a given situation is illogical. To make a blanket statement that 100% of closeted people in relationships with out people are damaging their partners is again making the assumption that people are all alike, and must all react and feel the same way.. To call 100% of people you don't personally know incredibly selfish and unfair for their life choices is judgmental and somewhat egotistical, not to mention a bit narrow-minded. How, on a site which proclaims how "safe and accepting" it is, can you feel okay about those statements? Can you at least not include a statement that what you are saying is not the entire picture for everyone?
This is not my thread, so I won't go into details about my own situation, nor drag my out girlfriend to the computer so she can tell you herself that she feels neither hurt nor abused by my silence, and that the idea of her being my "dirty little secret" would cause her to laugh so hard soda came out her nose.
Just think about this one thing--are you, Chip, personally able to accurately determine how every single person in this situation feels? Unless you consider yourself to be omniscient and Godlike, it seems impossible to me. The most you can do it point to statistics, speak to your own experiences, give your opinion....You can't know everyone, speak for everyone, and it offends me when you act as though you can.

 

I can't help but notice, though, that you're not out yourself. And before I myself was out, I'd feel really offended as well when someone told me I was being selfish. I never ever thought my boyfriend really minded that much, until one day it became too much and he completely broke down. I'd never expected in a million years that that was how much me not being out could affect him. I find it hard to imagine it's any easier for anyone else.
Now I agree not coming out is not necessarily selfish, as I think sometimes you just don't know how much it hurts the other person, and you can be really scared to come out, but at the same time I don't think anyone can keep up a healthy relationship for very long time with one person being out and the other not out at all.

 

You are right, I'm not out. This is why I felt I had something in common with the situation the OP was talking about, and why I chose to comment. And my feeling of offense was not because Chip was calling me selfish. He wasn't talking to me. It was because his statements failed in any way to acknowledge that situations and feelings can vary from person to person, and that means there is no "one size fits all" way to sum it up. Please note I did agree that he was probably correct, when it came to many people. I chose to comment on it because as a EC staff member, he should be held to a higher standard, and because I know he can take my comments without being hurt.
But to you, another member like myself....I have talked to my girlfriend repeatedly, for years, asking her to express her feelings, and I have to respect her enough to believe her when she says that who she sleeps with is no one's business but hers and the person in bed with her, that she prefers to keep her personal life private, and that she truly doesn't care if I ever come out. She assures me she knows the value I place on her, and she does not need anyone else to know in order for her to feel happy and secure. Is she rare, the extreme minority, and atypical? I believe so. But SHE EXISTS, and unless you would have me believe she has lied to me repeatedly, for years, when asked for her feelings and opinions, then the simple fact that she does exist, and feels as she feels, means that statements like you and Chip are making, that it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to be in a happy relationship for years, with one person in and one person out are simply and flatly untrue. Admit it is possible, just highly unlikely, and I will shut up and go away.
Perhaps I should ask the question the other way....why do you believe that no one on the planet can feel something different than you and Chip feel? Why, on a site, dedicated to the acceptance of diversity, is it so impossible to believe that someone could feel and want something unlike what you would feel and want?

 

Don't push him to hard cause my girlfriend has outed me more times then not by not toning it down when I ask cause she's mad I like being in the closet rather than face my dads homophobia although he kinda already knows since my girlfriend openly kissed me goodnight in front of my family. :dry: she can be a real bitch sometimes.

 

And also I feel I should apologize to Ratchet for having this distract from his question...perhaps it would be better to suggest that comments to me should move onto my wall, instead of continuing to hijack his post?

 

Here's the issue: It's impossible for a person who is out to have good self esteem if they're stuck in a relationship with someone closeted. I don't think you understand the dynamics of that unless you either are, or are close to, the out person that's been in the relationship with a closeted person. (and I do not mean as a partner of an out-person-dating-a-closeted-person.) The issue is... the out person is constantly made to feel invisible or devalued or less than whole because the closeted person has to constantly pretend, to others, that his or her partner does not exist, or is the opposite sex. There's no way that can ever be healthy for the out person in the relationship. The only person that would be OK with that is someone who already has really low self esteem, and staying in a relationship like that is just going to further his or her low self esteem, and perpetuate the idea that s/he is not worthy of a healthier relationship.

But the person who expects their partner to simply tolerate being invisible to family and friends, to have to hide or not go to family gatherings, to not be mentioned at gatherings of friends or family... I'm sorry, but "selfish" is exactly what it is.



Is it theoretically possible? Yes. Likely? No. In nearly every case where there's an out person who claims to be OK with a closeted partner... the out person has self esteem or codependency issues. (And those two are usually tied together.) It's a matter of basic psychology and relationship theory. So while there are exceptions to every generalization or rule, in this situation, those exceptions are likely to be few and far between, according to everything I've seen in the psych literature.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your response. As you noted above, it *is* possible. I appreciate your allowing for the possibility that my relationship does in fact exist.
Obviously, you do not know me or my girlfriend personally. I still don't understand why you seem unable to accept that for her, this ONE woman, her privacy is what she values most. She feels no need to have people know the details of her intimate life, in fact the idea is profoundly distasteful to her. She is an adult, that is *her* choice, that is how she likes it to be. She has stated numerous times that even if she were straight, it would be the same. Who she has sex with is her business, and not anyone else's. Fortunately for all of us, your understanding of our relationship dynamic is not necessary for our happiness.
As to your assumption that she has low self-esteem...well, as I said, you don't know her. That statement could be seen as presumptious, considering that you have never met her, spoken with her, or heard her express her thoughts on the subject but I believe that *you* believe it. Again fortunately, that doesn't make it true, just because you personally think it is.
I have no idea where you fabricated the idea that she is invisble. In my family, she is highly visible. We live together, she works in our family business, she attends family gatherings, my kids love her and refer to her as "another grandmother" for their expected child. Perhaps this glaring misconception as to her "visibility" within my life is part of the problem. The only thing we choose to not make visible is the fact that we have sex. Everything else is in the open, and has been for years. Since I never have, and never will, see any need to discuss the intimate details of my sex life with my parent, or siblings,
nor she with hers, this works well for both of us.
I clearly need to stop trying to get you to acknowledge that although it is unusual, it is possible for two people to have a happy relationship when one person won't come out. It bothers me that you seem to feel qualified to dismiss my life as dysfunctional and impossible, when you have no personal knowledge of this specific relationship or the people involved. It bothers me much more that you feel so righteous about making other people invisible, simply because they fail to conform to your idea of what is and isn't appropriate. Most of all, it bothers me to think that you will continue to do this to people who are much younger than I, and therefore much more likely to take your words as gospel and put limits on their lives that do not *have* to be there, simply because they believed in your inffalible expertise.
That said, I also believe that you are here, doing the work you do, because you truly want to help people, and for that you have my respect. I will simply ask you again to consider that what seems unlikely to you is not impossible, and to perhaps take into consideration that for EC staff to dismiss, demean, and shame one member for publically disagreeing with you sets a dangerous precedent for how others may expect to be treated in future.

 

---------- Post added 24th Sep 2013 at 08:32 AM ----------

I think you ae in denial, do you really think your familiy does not know what is going one. Guess what they do, they are just not saying anything to you. i will find that all that you are doing, to keep things under wraps is a waste. However if this does not bother her then..all is well.