Dan Savage

If someone likes redheads and brunettes, and marries a brunette, does that mean they automatically stopped liking redheads? Think of it that way That's how I've been explaining things to my mom. Marrying/dating a man wouldn't 'turn you straight' any more than marrying/dating a woman would 'turn you lesbian'.

The idea of sex and gender being fluid things not confined to binaries (heterosexual/homosexual, man/woman) is relatively new still, give it time

Speaking of Dan Savage...yeah, I respected him until one of his videos against bisexuality. Sorry, dude. You don't get to tell me I'm just 'going through a phase'.

And I do know some people who consider 'twink' to be an offensive phrase. I kinda find it borders on offensive.

 

Getting upset over words and terms seems oversensative.

 

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He is not saying that legitimate bisexuality is a phase, he is saying that many gay or lesbian people choose to identify as bisexual initially as a sort of softer way of coming out, and then later identify as fully homosexual (Myself included).

I don't want to sidetrack this debate, but there is nothing offensive about the term twink. It is a physical description of a type of person, and implies no negative traits. It is no more offensive than using the term bear or otter. Sometimes the "PC police" cross the line, and this is one of those times.

 

Hmm, I'm really not sure about that comparison. A bit insulting to Malcolm X I think to compare him to Dan Savage, and really the two are nothing alike. The two are pretty much completely opposite within their respective movements (black and queer).

Malcolm X was a radical who mobilized black Americans at the grassroots level to fight for their rights as part of a greater struggle for justice.

Dan Savage is a self-serving elitist whose primary concern is that rich white gay men like him can get invited to the cocktail parties of the power elites.

This is why Dan Savage (and the mainstream gay rights movement he represents) treat marriage equality as the one big final issue for queer equality, the issue that primarily affected wealthy, stable, middle-aged white gay people like him... while little attention is paid to issues like the fact that in most states it is perfectly legal for employers to discriminate and fire people for being gay, or to discuss the homelessness epidemic of young people, mostly people of color, who are kicked out of their homes for being gay. Savage and the mainstream gay movement do not appear all that concerned about the people who really are in the most dire of straits because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

I've read Savage's comments on bisexuality, and they are at best insensitive and at worst flagrantly offensive and biphobic.

And it's part if a bigger problem. Dan Savage is a man devoid of any class (other than his upper-class elitism), a lowlife, and I find it embarrassing that somehow he is the face of gay America for many ordinary Americans.

 

but isn't he Transphobic?

 

I've been listening to Dan Savage for a few years, he is one of the most outspoken advocates of trans and bi people in the mainstream media.

Using a word that suddenly became offensive last week doesn't make you biphobic or transphobic!

Homo/transphobia (aka gay/trans hate) is NOT when someone uses the wrong word to describe you, it is NOT when someone doesn't understand every single detail of your struggle with sexual orientation or gender identity and it is NOT when someone says something you disagree with on a topic as controversial as LGBT issues. It is when someone legitimately attacks, marginalizes or is prejudiced against you because of your sexual orientation or gender identity.

I can't stand people who take someone who is a very vocal advocate of LGBT people, and nit-picks every word they say until they find something mildly offensive, then label them as transphobic or biphobic. They are doing a disservice to everybody.

Just my 2 cents.

 

His stance on Bisexuality+ Dan Savage and transphobia - It's A Blog! For Blogging!

Make me hate the man with every fiber of my being.

---------- Post added 26th Dec 2012 at 09:55 PM ----------

But, glitter bombing is going overboard.


Such a waste of glitter, just send it to me.

 

The issue is not whether someone understands every single detail of another's struggle with sexual orientation or gender identity, nobody expects that. The issue is whether someone actually WANTS to make a good faith attempt to understand the plights of others, and to be respectful and sensitive about the things that you have trouble understanding.

Savage has shown that he isn't really interested in learning about the experiences of bisexuals and transgender people. And like any ignorant bigot, he takes pride in mocking bi and trans people because of things he can't understand about them. The man is totally unfit to be any sort of spokesman for the LGBTQ community.

And Savage's attitudes toward bi and trans people seem indicative of his overall worldview, of indifference (if not outright hostility) toward people who are different from himself. Dan Savage was born gay, so Dan Savage cares about gay rights. If Savage had been born straight, he'd be no different from any other homophobic bigot on planet earth, denigrating gay people because he doesn't care to understand their experiences. Gay people are a small minority, we would never get anywhere if everyone shared in such a self-centered view of justice and human rights.

 

First of all, Dan Savage is kind of an asshole, and has said really hurtful things about bisexual and transgender people. And even in his apology to bisexual folks, he basically repeated some hurtful and irrelevant things: for example, that bisexuality is a transitional identity adopted by many people and it's a phase for them ("for them" being operative here, and anyway, it's irrelevant, who cares?), the other ones are that bisexuals often end up in opposite-sex relationships and distance themselves from the LGBT community (mega wrong: if I end up in an opposite-sex relationship, it's still gonna be really queer).

So, I guess, basically ignore the political claims that Dan Savage makes about bisexuality. It's pretty much who cares? Although I would say, you should not want to be straight necessarily. Just focus on being true to yourself. Is the true self that you have queer? Okay, then just deal with that.

 

I'm disappointed in some of the comments in an article about him being glittered. I love how some people in them try to disguise their bigotry by basically saying "You have to educate us and if it's not good enough, it is our right to hate you because we don't have enough information and that means you're wrong." You can really see where the logic falls apart?

Some selections (Most of them are about transgender people because the commenters on these sites seem to generally be okay with bisexuality) of stupidity:

You know what disgusts me most in this world? Man's capacity for violence, anger and hatred. Bigots like the ones above throw their weight around due to a lack of knowledge on a topic but the moment someone tries to provide them with the knowledge, they ignore it in favour of hatred. They throw their weight around over people who are in the minority. And what's worse is that this doesn't just apply to people who are in the majority. A part of it is minority turning against minority. Take, for example, those in the quoted comments above who believe that the T and/or B need to be removed from LGBT because they are 'different than us'. Really? Are you kidding me with this garbage? You turn on people who are oppressed in the same way you are by using the arguments the majority uses against you. Am I the only one who sees the irony in this? Excluding people who fall under transgender or bisexual for being 'different than you' is the same reason that people like Romney and Santorum are against you and your rights. So, aren't you supporting their arguments? If it's okay for you to get rid of a group for being 'different than you', then does that make it okay for them to? If it doesn't affect you, that makes it fine, right?

Let's add to that list of things that disgust me in the world: man's capacity for apathy. People can be so apathetic if they think it won't affect them sometimes. Why should that make a difference? Should people be oppressed because they're different? No.

I saw an article about a LGBT child who was kicked out of his house and left on the streets to starve and die. People in the comments actually said he deserved this. In another article, there was a straight, cisgender kid on the street and the comments were saying how awful it was. And even worse, half the time, these were the same people in both articles, saying that the LGBT kid deserved it and the straight, cisgender kid didn't. No kid, no person, deserves it. They may be straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, cisgender, transgender or whatever but they deserve a roof over their heads and food to eat.

Wow, I really got ranting there. Sorry about that.

 

I could make anybody sound like the anti-Christ if I took enough of their quotes out of context. Basically, what I'm taking away from this whole thing is that anybody who doesn't understand enough about you, or uses the wrong words, or gives advice you disagree with is a transphobic bigot?

People are throwing these words around far to liberally these days. He is an asshole sometimes, sure. But a transphobe? Please...

 

(*hug*)

Totally get how offended, upset and angry these comments would make a transgender person. Maybe it is just me, but I actually get a lot angrier when fellow LGBT people show intolerance and crappy behavior, than if a straight and possibly religious person does the same. As LGBT, we are all potential targets for intolerance, hate and ignorance. Because of that, we should also therefore understand each other better, and have more empathy and compassion for a fellow LGBT members feelings! Some of those comments were down-right nasty! Sure, I am a lesbian, but that doesn`t mean that the rights and well-being of my fellow gay man is of no importance to me. Or that I for some reason look down on transgender people. I know how it feels to want respect, acceptance and compassion, and if I want something, I give it as well. Which is how it should be.

*Shakes head*
These comments made my head spin. A**-wipes.

(*hug*)

 

The things about quotes online you never know when someone actually said it or not- Abraham Lincoln

 

I think if someone describes trans people wrong it means that they are ignorant to or aren't well educated on trans issues. I don't see it as transphobic when members of my family have done this and I correct them. It's still ignorance though and that can sting. If they purpossely continue to say shemale after a correction or something that's different.

But with Dan Savage, he has made big mistakes that didn't just change last week or even just a decade ago. For example, in one Savage Love thing he wrote he repeatedly misgenders a trans woman and chastises her for not waiting to transition until after her kid is out of high school.

Maybe that's not transphobic but it is... idk if there's a word for it but it's more than ignorant, maybe like ignorantly malicious/mean/bad. Like it would be if someone who used to know me before transition just decided to not even try to use female pronouns but was still respectful towards me and considered themselves an ally. That person is still being incredibly hurtful even though they don't think/know that it's a huge deal.

I sure hope Savage has evolved like he says he has, but I still wish trans people had our own really visible spokesperson/people. Nothing wrong with being a white cis gay male, but it's not the same as being a man or woman that's trans speaking for other people who are transgender and I hope some people decide to take on that type of spokesperson role who are trans.

 

It sickens me how horrible the LG part is so rude to the BT, and I hate when gay people hate on bisexuals because people have used it because they were to scared to come out , it's like you do realize its other gay who have done this not real bi sexuals thy are probably guilty of it themselves , so they hate us bi,s based on something they started its so stupid.

People who don't understand something about someone else just can't let it go and just be like oh well they always have to invent something to make them selves feel better not realizing how they hurt and disrespect others. It reminds me of a quote I heard " sometimes the brain can't understand what the heart feels."

 

He has a relationship and sex show, he gives advice for each situation. I think that if the time is not right to begin the transition, then maybe waiting for a short time is a good idea. If you have a kid in high school, and know he will be bullied because of your decision to begin a transition, maybe it is a good idea to wait a couple years. Same with his advice about coming out, sometimes it is not a good idea! If you are young, dependent on someone that might reject you, or in a location that could be dangerous (still punishable by death in many countries), then maybe wait to come out...Of course, people have spun this to label him as anti-trans or anti-bi, sometimes even transphobic.

As for the misgendering someone...I've read the whole instruction manual on here about it, and still am terrified to even talk about it because no matter what I say I will offend someone. Someone called me transphobic once (couldn't be farther from the truth) because I accidentally misgendered someone. Before labeling someone as homo/bi/transphobic, always mentally substitute it for gay/bi/trans hate (which is what it actually is). If it is too strong of a word, maybe you are using the wrong term.

 

I'm sorry you've had trouble with the pronoun thing. Did you not call someone by the pronouns they asked for or something?

I would think that her situation's impact on her son was on her mind since she's his parent and who is anyone to judge her for transitioning when she did? The earlier you start hormones the better they can alter a body and help to decrease dysphoria, also if her dysphoria was getting too bad for her to handle pretending to be a man I can definetley understand why she would do it. Feeling repulsed, disgusted or embarassed about your own body and feeling like no one you ever meet sees you for who you really got unbearable for at least me before I started transition.

Transitioning is not a good idea in some cases you are right but only the individual can decide that, if she couldn't live with herself then it was definetly time to transition. I would hate to be in her situation and have to tell a wife and kid that all along I was a woman and now I need to transition because I can't handle the dysphoria or something but what I would hate even more is being judged by cis gender people like Savage as being unthoughtful or stupid because the timing of transition wasn't convienent for other people.

And like I said in the post before, Dan Savage might not be transphobic but he has certainly been very ignorant and judgy in the past.

 

A decision to undergo a transition not only affects you but everybody in your life. I think it's irresponsible and selfish to always make the assumption that no matter how it might affect others one should immediately undergo the procedure if they desire to live as the other gender.

If I made this decision and had a son in high school, I would put serious thought into delaying it a year or two so that my son could avoid the bullying and teasing at high school, just like I have not come out at work yet because my boss who will soon decide my future has made anti-gay remarks. In a perfect world we could all live exactly how we want, but sometimes you just have to suck it up for a while until your situation improves before making a life changing announcement.

 

I would submit that as a cisgender gay man, your experience is not similar enough to be making a general claim about when transgender people should be transitioning.