wierd godly experience

well, i would say that there is too much coincidences in everything even existing and working together in harmony to be merely chance, and that anybody can see.

i am happy that you were saved from death by your own hand, especially because then we would not be here discussing this. it means to me it is not your time to die, and you are not ready to die, and that you have still some important things to do here first.

and i think God is absolutely fine with you being honest, cuz you actually talked to him, and i do think He heard you. my advice is if you really do want to know if God exists, or if He has a happy plan for you to exist here and that is why He didn't allow you to die, keep asking Him all your questions.

i have had very obvious signs that were unbelievable that showed me i was hearing Him and doing what He wanted. i even wonder now if i could be experiencing all this embarrassing issue of being trans and needing to alter everything for a good reason too. i have no idea where this all will end up.

but for me, if I love God and all people, even those who persecute me, then i know i have a hope a lot brighter than being just snuffed out.

that is my thought. hope it helps. feel free to write me anything my wall. and don't off yourself! i want you here.

 

I guess I can say thank God in a literal sense that the women knocked on your door then

Just remember that suicide is not the right answer out, you're not alone on this one, everyone on EC carry that burden of being gay/bi/transgender and any other title I havent mentioned, share some of your thoughts with us, connect with us, it would be so sad to think that you would have been just another LGBT suicide gone unnoticed.

 

No reasonable person would take offence to such a statement, so there's no need to worry. There is no rigorous foundation on which anyone can rest such an assumption, but I realise that people like to take comfort in such things.

 

To quote john travolta: "The miracle you witnessed. I witnessed a freak occurrence."

I'd be more inclined to trust occam's razor, the principle suggesting that the explanation requiring the least assumptions is the more favourable. Wiki puts it nicely: "other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one."

I have had 2 such experiences in my life which in my more naïve years i took as proof of some supernatural force. Both happened when i was about 10 years old: i was once having a particularly bad sleepless night (i've always been an insomniac), got desperate, cried and prayed for rain (which always helps me sleep), and within a couple of seconds it was falling. There was no rain forecast, either. It was nice, steady rain that got me to sleep with a smile on my face.

Another time, after a fight with my mum where she'd slapped me across the face i was outside crying and lost for what to do, i was scared to go back inside because she had never hit me before but it was cold and i wanted to go to bed. I prayed for help and lo and behold i hear a plod plod plodding of my horse (the one my parents were leasing for me anyway) coming down the drive, out of the dark, straight toward me. No-one had any idea how he'd gotten there. Because of the layout of the property he'd have had to escape over at least 2 fences and navigate around (or somehow go over) 3 gates with cattle grids, cross a road to finally end up where he did. He only did it that once, and it happened to be at that exact moment. He was quiet and relaxed, came up to me and made me feel better instantly.

as far as i'm concerned the propensity for people to believe in a higher power when some of their prayers get answered - even astonishingly timely ones like these - ultimately stems from confirmation bias. We all want proof there's a god, myself included, but as far as i've seen there isn't any to be had, and it will take more than a couple of freak moments to move me any closer to making the assumption that a mystical force out there is listening to our thoughts and making them happen once in a blue moon.

 

a man once said he was searching for a truly good man.
he searched and searched.
he would travel and find somebody so close, but then they made a mistake, so he felt sad, and kept looking.
he died thinking he never found a truly good man, because he was looking for what was WRONG to prove they were NOT good.
but in fact, if he had been looking for the GOOD and not the BAD, he would have found it!
For every town he was in, he had met some really good men.

I think about this when people say, no matter how many absolutely irrefutable things that logically and mathematically can't be coincidental, too astronomical, that I have and they have experienced...that still there is not enough proof 100% that it is God who exists and has done that for us.

Well, you never will get that 100% until it is too late to do anything about it.

But instead of looking for things to deny the possibility, too negative, why not explore the positive? Hey, if there IS a God, and he made YOU, and he made all the things on earth and they obey, like the rain or a gate that opens for a horse, how good and awesome would that be! Why not search for the possilibity?

Best wishes to you BornThisWay in your search, may it be a happy one.
And again I am glad you are alive.

 

even going by this argument, i think the universe to be far more interesting, mystifying and wonderful and profound when thought of to be a completely spontaneous natural phenomenon on astounding scales, both large and small. Without the assumption that it was merely created on a whim, it's a much more fascinating place, with myriad layers of answers and questions which follow on from each other to endlessly confound and compel the observer. If instead the answers just essentially amounted to "sky daddy done it" then i'd be a bit nonplussed in that regard

 

Here's God well ok the Futurama God but I kind of like this one. It does give more reason to believe that God isn't just our God, only of Planet Earth, but that he has so many millions of galaxies to look after, no wonder there's only few and far between times when we actually see some form of spiritual truth. But hey, what do I know, I don't even know what religion I am right now...I believe in God or...something but that is pretty much as far as it goes.

 

Really?

huh...

With me it is the opposite.

Chaos is just things randomly bumping and merging and dying out. I seen car crashes, they aint much interesting to me...just the weirdoes who slow down on the highways to stare.

To me, I see the order in everything. I read about how all DNA turns to the right, why not left too...like for other creatures? and how most planets and moons also spin to right! I read about the chemicals that make matter, and how it all works so perfectly to make things the way they need to be. Like our earth, for example: any closer to sun, too hot for life, any further away, too cold. It has just the right amounts of everything to make everything that does live on it work synergistically to help benefit everything else. Like for example: how after a seed falls, dead matter made into its chemical foods and sunlight too is added to water chemicals that falls to cool it and fill it with fluids to become a plant, which is then plucked and eaten by a person, who will toss the roots and uneatable parts to the ground, which will be eaten by worms and bugs, which will use up what they can and the remnants from this will become again earth that can help grow the next food! It is soooo complex, and so beautiful like in a microscope, not just the telescope, we see patterns, order, not chaos.

So for me, science gives me reason to have faith that it is too likely that intelligence made this, not an accident.

 

It does turn to the left sometimes. See toroidal DNA. Not that the direction in which DNA turns is suggestive of whether supernaturalism is true anyhow.

That is so because the sun happens to rotate counter-clockwise as well, and its gravity is what gives the solar system its structure, but again none of this is suggestive of whether supernaturalism is true.

See the anthropic principle. It is fallacious, anyhow, to say "because x allows for y to exist, my supernatural beliefs are true."

This is known as the teleological argument, which consists of some rather heavy question begging: "I see the Universe as having objective purpose and meaning, therefore it has purpose and meaning which is embodied objectively by supernatural entity x."

 

^ or...
you don't like the idea of God, so you must take apart each thing i say, use it against me, saying what i state as my personal reasons for faith are invalid.

thus you are saying I'm stupid for faith? right?

but it is funny, cuz I'm not hating on you for not believing...but if this were a different topic, you would sure look rude...oh wait! you do look rude.

don't pick apart MY PERSONAL beliefs...ever.

 

I'm sorry if I came across as rude. I certainly didn't mean to, and I harbour no ill feelings toward you. I thought that since you had engaged someone else on the matter that you too would be open for further engagement, so I decided to respond to your post. I didn't realise that you would take offence, and it was not my intention that you would feel attacked or belittled as a result of my post. My own beliefs concerning discourse and the development of viewpoints place a high value on receiving criticism so that my views can become more rigorous and receive consideration from viewpoints beyond my personal capacity. Of course, I failed to realise that not everyone would value that in the same way that I do, and so I offer once more an apology.

 

Since you've already been offended once by reasoned and logical rebuttal back to you, i won't quote point out the scientific inaccuracies and logical fallacies in your post (the ones not already addressed, anyhow), but one wonders whether you were looking for a lecture, and not a discussion.

Anyway, consider that if you are so emotionally attached to your opinion, it may not stem entirely from reasoned thought.

 

I humbly accept your sincere apology. Part of my beliefs also are that I can't be forgiven unless I also am able to forgive...which can be hard. But not with you!

I do like to debate things in the right time and place...including religion and politics and abortion. but...this one was my PERSONAL feelings, and that is not up for criticism. You see?

Like if you stated face to face: Say, have you seen the new NASA photos of Mars? That sure seems to prove there could be life there, and that proves that the Big Bang really happened! ...Not really, I did see it, but I don't see how that photograph has any proof of that in it...
And that is an example of a budding discussion of theories, or even theology, or both, or even us adding in our own ones!

But if you stated face to face: Say, I know you are a Christian, but hear me out...I want to tell you why I personally do not feel there is a God, and how I feel sometimes when people who believe in one say things like being gay is a sin.... Okay sure, Id love to know! Im listening.
And that is an example of two friends listening to each others' deep personal beliefs, and discussing each others differences and maybe even finding where there is agreement, but no judgement.

That last one is what this was here...my beliefs.
That can't be judged.

---------- Post added 16th Jul 2012 at 01:25 PM ----------

As for you...
EMOTIONALLLY ATTATCHED

NOT STEMING FROM REASON

that is hate.

so just don't bother to talk to me until you can resolve your issues with me having a difference of opinion. you are rude and cruel.

unfortunately no block function here...so just tolerate Chrisitans, okay? Cuz we are here, we are Queer, get used to us!

 

where the hell did that come from?

Please don't bully me.

---------- Post added 17th Jul 2012 at 06:40 AM ----------

then why did you say:

if you're just going to viciously attack anyone offering a contrary perspective?

[edit] ohhh, wait that was the OP, not you.

Regardless, don't try to shut me up, this is a discussion forum, not a pulpit.

And i said not "entirely" stemming from reason, please quote accurately at least.

---------- Post added 17th Jul 2012 at 06:58 AM ----------

And i should add:

I wouldn't judge a person for their beliefs, sure, so in that sense i don't have an issue with that point. However, if it is meant to imply that beliefs themselves are never to be the subject of critical analysis, that i can't agree with. If you don't want to talk about it with me, fine. But don't nonsensically accuse me of hatred for offering a reasoned dissection of the matter at hand, especially when after all, the OP did request thoughts on it.

 

Honestly, it appears that it is you that is having difficulties accepting that Pseudojim has a different opinion than yourself. As mentioned, this a forum where discussion takes place and where many different viewpoints are shared. You shared a viewpoint, than someone shared theirs concerning why that would never work for them and then you lashed out in anger. Just because something is your "personal feeling" doesn't mean that it is infallible and that others should not be free to express their own opinions as well. Instead of lashing out in anger, you could have acknowledged that you and the opposing person could "agree to disagree" on that topic and move on.

For a thread and forum to best exist is to allow the free exchange of ideas between all members, not to limit them because they do not concur with a specific members. Therefore, instead of fighting over this, Pseudojim and yourself should concede that you have differing viewpoints and move on with your lives

 

Nobody's personal beliefs should be above criticism, whether they're atheist or Christian. And I wouldn't necessarily consider Steve's post critical of your beliefs, but rather correcting several factual errors. I don't see where he made any sort of judgment about you because of your religious beliefs.

More to my point about criticism of personal beliefs: it's perfectly acceptable to criticize beliefs, especially when they're borne out of ignorance. If religious beliefs were above any sort of judgment, groups like Westboro Baptist Church would thrive because there wouldn't be anyone to speak out against their obscene message. They would be tolerated simply because it's "their belief", and as damaging as their message is, we'd all have to respectfully listen it.

Moreover, there are a number of christian groups who believe that faith above all else cures illness, so they refuse any sort of medical treatment. With all due respect to those who've experienced sudden and serendipitous recoveries from illness, ignoring science because it goes against the will of god is not acceptable, especially if someone's life is at stake.

Criticism isn't a bad thing, and it doesn't come from a position of hatred or resentment. You need to learn that when people disagree with you, or point out errors, it's not because they have a problem with your beliefs.