Conservative's in the LGBT community?

I'm fiscally conservative and socially moderate. In an election here, I would probably vote for the Liberal party (Australian equivalent of the Republican Party). Despite the fact the Greens are the only party which people give a shit about in Australia which supports gay marriage, I would never vote for them, because some of their policies are idiotic, and half of the party is filled with communist wash-ups, with most of the rest hippies.

I think it's crazy how hell-bent some LGBT individuals are on destroying conservatives.

 

There are two kinds of LGBT conservatives.

There are Fred Karger LGBT Conservatives, who while holding to conservative princibles, stand up and fight against discrimination, inequity, and inequality for LGBT citizens and other minorities.

Then there are the Rick Santorum LGBT Conservatives, who will thrown you under the bus, spit on you, kick you bloody, and do everything to ensure that you are not granted the constitutionally mandated right of equal and due process. You can also tell this kind by their hatred of racial minorities, but their efforts to claim that those minorities actually support them. They also like to pit minorities against each other, as we saw with NOM, and as we are seeing them try to do with latinos.

 

I don't think it's crazy at all. I can understand the desire that motivated a gay man to shove a pie into Anita Bryant's face in the 1970's. I'll preface this by stating that not all conservatives, and not all republicans, have damaged the LGBT community in the past, but it is undeniable that the biggest lies, the meanest demonizations, and the most cruel pieces of legislation directed at the gay community have came from the right. When an entire political ideology is determined to legislate away your rights and deny your personhood, it's hard to not hate it. I, personally, view LGBT conservatives as traitors to the cause.

In America especially the right has many amends to make before I'll ever see it any different than that. Sure, they've made an about-face and done good things for us recently, like in New Hampshire where a republican majority preserved LGBT rights, but only after it became crystal clear to everyone that it was going to be a botched attempt at repeal that would go no where, absolutely nowhere. Only a few years ago they opposed equality every single step of the way and we've heard about nothing but repeal since then.

Honestly, a gay conservative blows my mind. It's like a Jew voting for a Nazi or a black man supporting the KKK. And gay conservatives say, "Well, shouldn't we be trying to convert them? Shouldn't we be trying to change their minds and let them know that we're their electorate too?" Which, in the words of David Rakoff, is like staging a protest outside a restaurant with signs that say "THE OWNER IS A REAL ASSHOLE AND THE FOOD SUCKS. WE EAT HERE EVERYDAY."

Gay conservatives say: "Sure, they want to deny my marital rights, and criminalize my sex life, and take away my children because they don't believe in gay adoption, but I saved $400 on my income taxes!" It doesn't seem worth it to me, but what do I know?

 

Wow, talk about oversimplifying it. Because it's totally and utterly impossible for gay people to have an opinion on abortion, government mandate on health insurance, and illeg...er...undocumented immigration.

 

I'm sure there are other social issues out there that concern LGBT republicans, but I'm calling it like I've seen it. I have heard LGBT conservatives say that they care more about the money they can save and get through the republican party than marital rights or social issues, and I don't get it. I really don't. I've also never met a single LGBT person that could genuinely be considered "pro-life." By "pro-life" I mean that they do not support abortions under any circumstances whatsoever, including rape and incest cases. Anything less than that is "pro-choice" and I will support that assertion if anyone would like me to do so. I'll eat my wool hat if someone on EC comes forward with that position.

Barney Frank was quoted as saying in David Rakoff's book that the Log Cabin Republicans "came for the cash and stayed for the homophobia" and I think that's perfectly apt. The arguments against "illegal immigration" and health care mandates stem almost entirely from financial logistics and outrage that their money is funding somebody else. When you go to the Log Cabin Republican website and look at their "Sill Resolution" page, a balanced budget and financial reform is the first statement made. Marital rights and ENDA don't show up until you get more than halfway down the page. See for yourself;

Sill Resolution - - Log Cabin Republicans -

 

Well, the Log Cabin Republicans have made great strides, and have been fighting for LGBT rights and protections over the last few years.

I would say GOProud is the bunch of assholes we should really be chastising. They have a habit of bringing in and support some of the most homophobic people on earth.

 

Mogget, you nailed it in one.

Really, this entire topic makes me feel this way ---





One other thing - for all you christians/right wingers whining - Yes, whining -- that we liberals/LGBT/Lefties are out to destroy you, here is a little hint -

If your beliefs weren't so godsdamned destructive to humanity and full of hatred, y'all would have nothing to worry about. :bang:

 

Not all conservative Christians are anti-gay rights. Yes, take a jump into Alabama (or the Australian equivalent - Bob Katter's electorate) and yes, you might find some of those people.

But there is mindless religion bashing and hate on this forum. It's not the religion itself, its the interpretation of the reason. This is why I HATE atheists who go off making out that Christians are uneducated idiots. Most of my family are Christians, and they are by no means uneducated idiots. Some people have a religion, while we can disapprove or even detest of what they are saying, it does not give the LGBT community the right to go off and make out religion to be something that always encourages homophobia.

Yes, there are extremists of all religions. The majority of Christians are moderate, and while they may be socially conservative, often aren't out to make the lives of LGBT individuals hell. In the end, religion is the reason they probably used to disguise their hate.

 

And aaassss usual the point is completely f***ing missed. One more time with feeling --

What. You. Christians. And. Right. Wingers. IS. Full. Of. Destruction. And. Hatred. Its. In. Your. Damned. Bible. READ the damned thing!! *headdesk*

---------- Post added 23rd Apr 2012 at 08:38 AM ----------

Damn mobile. It was supposed to read; what you right wingers and/or christians subscribe to IS full of destruction and hate. Its all in the bible. READ the damned thing!! *double headdesk*

 

When statements like this are made you whitewash everyone with the same brush. It isn't true, appropriate, or fair. I think you need to tone it down.

 

I tend to be a fairly conservative person when it comes to economics. I can see where LGBT people could align with the Republican Party on a lot of issues.

But I can't ignore the fact that they do come across (to me anyway) as being anti-gay. And I always have to wonder why...

From their 2012 platform (G.O.P. Platform « White House 2012)

Most documents today would also include 'sexual orientation' in the list of things that shouldn't be the basis of discrimination. But it's missing here. I expect intentionally.

And on the topic of marriage, I can't help but be offended...

So this is about children, not the people who want to get married. Presumably their concern is for the children that these same sex couples will adopt or have through surrogacy. And their concern for the children is about the kind of life they'll lead and how troubled they end up being. When they talk about children in homes without fathers, are they talking about homes where there are two lesbian mothers? Is that what these statistics are based on? I'm guessing no. So the argument made against same sex marriage seems to be based on studies that show that children of dead-beat or absent fathers suffer as a result.

Why do they hold this position? If someone could explain it to me I might be able to better understand. Am I missing something?

This is from the 2010 STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY PLATFORM in Texas. (http://tcgop.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/2010_RPT_PLATFORM.pdf)

I simply don't believe that my 'practicing' of homosexuality is tearing at the fabric of society. I think there have got to be a lot more important things out there that are putting a strain on that fabric than my practicing of homosexuality. And they're not prepared to prosecute people who do discriminate against gays and lesbians.

I would have trouble aligning myself with a party that makes such statements.

I think what most people in this tread would like to understand - including the OP - is how does one reconcile your own personal beliefs and practices with these kind of official statements from the Republican Party? Is it a matter of accepting the good with the bad? Politics, like most things in life, is like that.

Only for me, these things are pretty fundamental.

 

liberals defend and fight for the victims of discrimination.

Conservatives tend to be the ones commiting the discrimination, then claim to be the victims when caught.

 

:roflmao: Do you really think it's that simple?

 

I've seen this claim before and I agree with to an extent, but there's one problem with it. I'm fairly active in the online atheist community. And while there's quite a bit of sexism and racism going on, there isn't homophobia. I have never met someone, online or off, who didn't justify their homophobia on religious grounds. The atheist community is one of the most supportive religious blocks for LGBT support. Neopagans and Reform/Reconstructionist Jews might be equally supportive, but I don't imagine it's possible for them to be more supportive

 

A gay conservative blows your mind? Like a Jew voting for a Nazi...Oh God here we go.

Seriously Kidd, I've gotten to know an appreciate your stance on things. I think you are a very sharp individual...and I think you are much too intelligent of person to make such an ignorant statement.

---------- Post added 23rd Apr 2012 at 07:38 PM ----------

As for you...I feel a bit of hatred in your post. But that's fine...statements like that make it all the more easy for me...please, I'm begging...make it a little more difficult for us, because it's just getting a little too easy at this point. Just saying...have a good night

 

Quite a bit to cover here, so what say we get to it shall we?

Mogget - You must tread in some fairly ....'loose', atheist communities; the ones Ive dealt with, while at most playfully sexist, don't exhibit any actual racism or homophobia; I personally find those confined strictly to posts made BY religious or conservative people. Just my experience, mind you.

Jim - I personally have to call BS. Why? Because, in the US, they are stuck with a two tier political system - the only two Realistic chances of being pres is by being either Democrat, Or Republican. Tell me, how often do the 'log cabin republicans' or other groups you support actually support people NOT in the republican caste? Almost never that I am aware of (Though I grant I am not American - I simply keep tabs.) And, when they DO support, ultimately, the head of the republican party, what does that consist of? Oh yes, the same hypocritical, bigoted, racist, hateful twats that currently comprise the main republican party.

Emberstone -- You nailed it quite nicely.

FJ -- Ultimately, it IS that simple. The parties on the American right - neverminding the religious whackos -- ARE the parties that for the last few decades have been working overtime to work the masses into a frenzy, while trying to stop or strip away the rights the LGBT have had to politically fight for.

RedState -- Unlike most people on the Left, I have no problem calling out hypocrisy, racism, sexism, bigotry, lies, double-talk, and outright bullsh!t for what it IS. Reality is, the people on YOUR side of the fence, in the political AND religious spectrums all fall guilty under this realm. Be it the whackos in political or religious power that cause and perpetuate these problems, or the tacit sheeple that send their money every week to support these butchers, YES, they are guilty of causing and supporting the problems the LGBT face -- and we arent the ONLY ones having to deal with it by any means either; be it suppression of religious freedoms, blatant rampant corruption of governments at the behests of mega-corporations, the multiple wars waged afar based on pure lies and BS, or the destruction of rights in the US in general. Obviously, a good portion of the democrats down there are as guilty of much of this - but the hatred, the intolerance; That originates from the right. Not the left. Me? Im tired of tolerating lies and BS being spread; and I have no qualms nailing those that spread them.

 

I think there might be significant selection bias with the type of person who participates in online atheism. Most neocons aren’t religious but I doubt many are part of the atheist community. If you want some examples of homophobia without abrahamic religion there are several examples. All communist countries were both homophobic and atheist (the communists believed that homosexuality was caused by capitalist social decay), the former communist countries in Europe are homophobic and except for Poland secular. Ayn Rand was both militantly atheist and homophobic. Many neocons are both homophobic and secular. Most of “human biodiversity” (it really intellectual racism) community is secular and homophobic this includes john Derbyshire who as in the news recently. That’s without getting into a debate about whether fascism was religiously motivated or not.

 

I don't know what other analogy to use, that is the most accurate I can be. You said yourself that you would have supported Rick Santorum had he won out over Romney. Santorum has realistically been the most prolific homophobe operating in the American political arena since 2003 when he first exploded onto the national stage by comparing LGBT Americans to dogs. There was a game on the Huffington Post, I think, a few months ago. In it, you had to guess who said a series of 10 quotes and you were given two options: Ayatollah Seyed Ali Hosseini Khamenei of Iran, or Rick Santorum. I had a hard time guessing who said what and I'm very current on politics.

I simply cannot imagine voting for Rick Santorum under any circumstances whatsoever. Is Obama truly so terrible in your mind that you would vote for RICK SANTORUM over him? What issue is so important to you, that Rick Santorum could give you, that Obama could not? I genuinely do not understand it at all.

 

Well I'm pretty sure this is "Empty Closets-a safe place for gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered PEOPLE coming out", not "Empty Closets- a safe place for gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered DEMOCRATS coming out". This is supposed to be a safe place for people to talk and find peace and support. There seems to be a lot of blind hatred against certain religions or political parties. I'm pretty sure everyone here would agree that we are supposed to fight against blind hatred, whether it be toward gays, Christians, republicans, or anyone else! I didn't mean to get on a soapbox, I just think that we should be able to have an open, intelligent discussion, without people getting mad and throwing around generalized insults.