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Am I gay? Yes, but can I live my life as straight man?

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by jimL, Dec 28, 2011.

  1. jimL

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    I knew the answer to the first question forty five years ago but I couldn't admit it to anyone but myself. It hurt me to even think of telling anyone; in retrospect I think it hurt me even more by waiting so many years to admit it to others. I question whether my life has been a failure because of this. I'm sure that a lot of the younger members here wonder how I could have spent most of my life being married when I knew that I was gay. I guess the important thing for me to convey to those that ask the question is that I grew up in a time when communism and homosexuality were a danger to the United States government. It was the time of McCarthyism and Pinko fag was the slur of choice for many Americans. Those that did "come out" were not really "out" they were secretly meeting in the underground like the Mattachine Society. It was a time when you would lose your job and very likely end up in prison. Yes, prison! In some European countries the sentences for homosexuality were harsher than bank robbery or physical abuse. It was at a time when the American Psychiatric Association still listed homosexuality as an illness and suggested reparative therapy (convert us to heterosexuals...the thought makes me ache inside). And, one of the worst, I was raised a Roman Catholic.....need I say more. On the flip side a lot of the Native American cultures were indifferent to homosexuality, They believed that homosexuals had two spirits and they often served as Shamans. Those beliefs have changed in today's society, no doubt influenced by "our" thinking. It's never going to be easy for gay people, but it is much better than it used to be.


    The second question is the one that haunts me every day since I came out seven months ago. I have lived as a straight man for a long long time and I have done a pretty good job of it. I got the College education, the great job, the best wife that any gay guy could ask for, a really nice house on five acres, two dogs and a cat. This is where I don't feel like a failure. I really like where I am, I love my wife but I desire a loving relationship with a man, but know the change would come with much unhappiness and pain. Deep down inside my soul I continue trying to search for the answer, but the answer varies with each passing day. You might ask why or how this could be. The biggest issue I have to face is my age. At a younger age it should be easier to make the change, albeit with difficulty, I have built a whole life with all its worldly possessions with my wife and leaving her would mean starting it all over again. Am I prepared to do that? No? Do I want to be with a man? Absolutely. Can I make the transition? I don't know. This is a complicated life that we live, as gay people. Why do we torture ourselves? More importantly why has society tortured us? Why did my church make me suffer for most of my life? I range from being sympathetic to being very angry. I just can't stop these thoughts. I honestly cannot answer the second question at this point in my life. I don't know when or if I will ever be able to find the answer.

    Comments welcome!
     
  2. Jim94

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    You have been though alot of shit and lived in a really hard time but you made it though it and I admire you for that.
    You can meet someone that will love you and will appreciate for who you are!
    And age shoudnt be something that should stop you from meeting that someone!
     
  3. summersforecast

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    Although I was born a mere 18 years ago, I can truely understand where you're coming from. My family raised me Catholic as well, and as soon as I realized I liked men, I felt the weight of their indirect judgement. I can only guess how much worse things were when you were growing up, but I feel obligated to tell you something. I was alone.
    I had been homeschooled, and at thirteen I knew which road I was taking. I knew that my family would not approve, and I knew that the only person I knew outside of my family was homophobic. I had not a single person to lean on, but I still decided to be true to myself because I knew I would never be satisfied living the way they all wanted me to. I can promise you that this will not be your situation if you decide to be true to yourself, because you'll have me. I will be here whenever you need someone to talk to, and that's far more than some are offered. If you decide you have the courage to embrace a new life and the guts to take what you want, then talk to me.
     
  4. 55

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    JimL, we have basically the same story!! You don't give your age, but if you say you knew 45 years ago, I'm guessing we're about the same age. I'm 56 now. You don't mention kids, I have 3 adult children between the ages of 27 and 32. My wife found out the hard way (after a visit to the doctor) about 3 years ago that I was also having (a lot of anonymous) sex with men. I didn't/couldn't admit to her that I'm gay until a couple months ago. Talk about 3 years of stress!! She told me she was almost relieved when I finally admitted it. Right now we're seeing a great counselor and making preparations to divorce and both hope to make it as painless as possible. We have plans to tell the kids starting in January and expand the circle of those who know over the next several months. On top of everything, I teach high school and am torn about what that's going to mean going forward.

    I know how hard it is for you. I'm scared to death of the next step, but at the same time, I'm thrilled beyond words! I'm nervous about what the changes are going to mean - especially financially and socially. I'm excited about the prospect of finally living a life as myself and not dragging someone unwittingly or unfulfilled though it with me.

    JimL, I wish you the best as you find your path. I understand and support any choice you make. If you need someone to confide in who is walking in your shoes, I would be honored to be that person.
     
  5. jimL

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    Thanks Jim and Carl. Those are very kind words. Carl, it must have been incredibly tough being alone. I think that homeschooling is not a good way for education, there are so many things that you learn from being around other people of your own age. Good and Bad!
     
  6. KneeDragger

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    First of all, you shouldn't think of your life as a failure. If you came out earlier in life, you'd probably have accomplished the same things you already have, but you wouldn't have your wife in your life. You've gotten where you are because of who you are. You may regret your decisions sometimes, but that's normal. Everybody wonders what could have been if only they had chosen something else (visions of "It's a wonderful life" come to mind...).

    As for where to go, that's for you to decide. For me, my wife and I were unhappy because I couldn't be the husband she needed. I chose to take the financial hit. By doing so, I was able to keep myself from dying inside. I worked very hard to ease my family through it and we are all on good terms.

    It's very scary starting over. Giving up material items is one thing. Figuring yourself out is something totally different and much harder to do.
     
  7. Chip

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    Jim,

    For what it's worth, I have a good friend who came out at 68! He's 72 now, and living life and happy with the world. He has grown children in their 40s and 50s who know and have been totally supportive. We haven't talked in detail about his process, but I know he got divorced some years before he came out.

    I have another acquaintance who is actually the father of one of my (gay) friends who is in a similar process; in his mid-50s and in the process of reestablishing his life.

    And I didn't come out until my 30s.

    It's becoming more and more common for guys to come out later in life, because as you said, it wasn't acceptable to most, 30 years ago, to be out and proud. But that doesn't mean you can't do so now. Yes, it's a big undertaking, but it's also an opportunity that most don't have; to have lived and experienced one lifetime, and to be able to live another, different one in the same lifetime.

    It seems to me that you've already done the hard work in coming out, in telling your wife, and in accepting who you are. Now it sounds like the fear is about upsetting the status quo. And I think as you explore possibilities, you'll find it really isn't as scary as you think. Since your wife already knows, it seems likely that she can still be your best friend, and while it might be hard for her when you find a boyfriend, I think you might be surprised how it can all work out.
     
  8. Emergelove

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    I am in the same situation as you. I feel torn between wanting to maintain what I have and wanting to lead a life with a man. Although at some cognitive level I understand that I will continue to have a lot of what I have even if I were to live a life with a man, that as painful it may be to me and my wife, we will have to continue to negotiate and talk, BUT I can't seem to reduce the confusion and turmoil within. It almost seems that for each day that I feel good about myself and about where my life may be headed, that for each day I find a sense of elation and peace after having an open communication with my wife, I pay a price of a few to several days of internal turmoil. Self-doubt. Guilt. Loneliness. Worthlessness. Ugh. I am very tired of it. Until when? Why?

    As if self-flagellation is the only way...almost comfortable, probably so by the force of habit... But why does it HAVE TO BE this way...
     
  9. jimL

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    Hey Chip. There is a reason that you are an advisor. You are absolutly right. I know that I have done the hard part. One of the things that is the biggest issue for me is that I am getting close to being able to retire (I started earily) and I know that if I leave my wife we both will have to continue working for a lot longer. I guess the other thing is that I feel as though I have decieved her. Is it fair for me to ditch her after we have worked all of these years towards a comfortable retiremant? It just doesn't seem right to me. I think that speaks to my morals. In a way I think it's good for me to feel this way. But then there is the other side saying but you have to do this. I just feels so wrong, it feels so hurtful. And yes I am still scared by all this.
     
  10. Chip

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    Have you gotten Joe Kort's book yet? If so, reread the chapters about heterosexually married gay men. If you haven't got it, get it, dammit :slight_smile: He talks specifically about the issue of the guilt that gay men feel in leaving their marriage, and goes to great lengths to explain how, in nearly every circumstance, the wife is at some level complicit, often even at the time of marriage. In other words... deep down, most wives knew and have known for years. So they, too, chose to keep quiet. Which means... you're both involved in maintaining the facade, and it's not just your fault. But he describes it much better, in much more detail, than I do, and offers insights to help grasp and hold that understanding.

    Yes, it is healthy that you feel some discomfort; it means you care, that you have strong moral fabric, and the guilt that drives that is healthy. But at a certain point, *both* of you deserve to be happy. And neither of you will if you're both avoiding the elephant in the room.

    One last thing I will suggest (if I have already, pardon me; this is another of my pet recommendations): Take a look at the following two videos by Brene Brown, a brilliant researcher who has been looking at issues of shame and how it keeps us from living wholeheartedly. She's funny, informative, wonderfully self-referential, and the message she offers is one that everyone needs to hear:
    [YOUTUBE]X4Qm9cGRub0[/YOUTUBE][YOUTUBE]_UoMXF73j0c[/YOUTUBE]​
     
  11. jimL

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    I'm currently reading "Finally Out" by Olsen, I don't have Joe korts book yet....I will get it I promise. And I'll watch the videos. Thanks for being patient with me. I'm really trying Chip, I'm really trying!
     
  12. bdman

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    Man we have a lot of the same problems and fears. I too feel too old to make the transition. I was horrified as a teen regarding what I was feeling. I couldn't understand why I wasn't attracted to girls the way my friends were. I had nobody to talk to, so I suppressed my feelings and lived life as a straight man who wouldn't settle down. I just bounced from relationship to relationship knowing it would never work out. I never let anyone get too close, and ran the opposite direction of commitment. I always desired a family life with kids, but felt something was wrong with me and couldn't do it. Deep down I knew that I was possibly gay but couldn't bring that thought to the front of my mind until several months ago.

    Now I am more conflicted than ever. I don't have a wife, but have a large anti-gay Evangelical family. The pain would be unbearable to me and my family if my secret got out. I don't think I could face them anymore because of the shame I would feel just knowing what they would think of me. They wouldn't let me go either, but try to save my soul. I also have my career to worry about since I work in a very anti-gay conservative environment. Even without those problems, I feel I'm just too old to make the transition. There are far fewer people over 35 that are "out" than under 25 for the reasons you described about the time we grew up. Finding someone of compatibility would be difficult, then I would still have to keep it a secret which may be impossible.

    But am I willing to live life alone? The older I get the harder it will be to make the transition. I feel stuck.

    If you ever find solutions to these problems, please share them.
     
    #12 bdman, Dec 29, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  13. Frustrated

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    Jim and Chip:

    I've been kinda tortured reading this thread the past couple of days and have tried to respond a few times but deleted my comments. Actually, I've just been too distraught to respond; this thread has really hit home.

    I, too, am married and am living with the guilt of what I am putting my husband through everyday. Ever since I accepted my attraction to women about 2 years ago I have not had intercourse with my husband. Of course, we've had other marital problems besides my sexuality, but I'm now blaming myself for everything and it's really killing me. I'm seeing a therapist and slowly trying to come to terms with everything, but it is so painful. In my case, I cannot live as a straight woman and at some point will have to tell my husband the truth and get a divorce.


    Chip, I read your comments and agree that my husband probably knows the truth. We dated when I was 25 (got married later when I was 36) and I avoided sex back then, as well. I think now we are both very much in denial and have developed this codependent relationship that prevents us from facing reality. I also watched the videos and really loved them. There has been so much pain in my life (growing up in an alcoholic household, rape at 12 and 21, dropped out of high school and ran away from home at 16, abortion at 19, my father died when I was 25) that I sort of decided a while ago that I was no longer going to feel pain. Of course, by blocking out pain I've also blocked all other emotions out and am just going through the motions without really feeling anything. No, I'd say that I've grown much more bitter and I don't like that about myself. It's not who I am. Thanks for reminding me that, despite everything that's happened to me and the pain and confusion that I feel now, I am still responsible for LIVING this life instead of just waiting to die.
     
  14. 55

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    I have loved reading the posts on this thread. Not because they make me feel better, but because they make me feel less alone. What a tragedy that our lives have to be so tormented because of what turns us on. It should only be the business of us and our lovers! (In a perfect world.)

    I've read Finally Out (great book), and am going to get the other mentioned in Chip's post. (What's the title, Chip?)

    Another one I've read that may be helpful for those of us with strong religious backgrounds or family members is Stranger at the Gate by Mel White. He came out after many years in a marriage while at the same time ghost writing for some of the biggest names in fundamental "Christianity". :bang:

    I'll be coming out to my brothers and sisters in the next couple months. Some of them are very fundamentalist Christians. I know they're going to try to "save" me - oh boy!

    New Year - New Life! Bring it on!
     
  15. jimL

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    I know exactly how you feel. Sometimes it's just good to know you are not alone. I felt alone my whole life until I found empty closets. Your book suggestion sounds very interesting.

    I downloaded Chips suggestion last night from Amazon to my tablet. I hope it is the right one. It's the only one that came under his name.

    Gay Affirmative Therapy for the Straight Clinician: The Essential Guide [Kindle Edition] $15.29 Joe Kort
     
  16. Eleanor Rigby

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    Dear Jim,

    I have two friends who had been in a similar situation. They were in their thirties and had been together for 12 years when they broke up. They were a part of each other's family, they had bought a flat in an expensive area, they had spent a lot of work, money and energy in making this flat nice and comfortable.
    When they broke up, my girl friend chose to leave the flat and she had to live for 2 years in a very small flat that she rented. My guy friend kept the flat but had to take a flatmate to be able to afford the repayment.
    It had been a hard time, for both of them.
    However, a few years later, they don't regret their decision. My girl friend has now a lovely partner who loves her fully and with whom she lives in a lovely flat. My guy friend now has a lovely male partner which whom he managed to keep his flat. They both happy and in much healthier relationships than they would have been if they have stayed together.
    I know you're at a different stage of your life than my friends were when they broke up, but I think that still, both you and your wife could benefit from being true to yourself. It may require some sacrifices, like selling your house or working longer than you expected to, but that would also enable both of you to live a life where you truly could be yourself.

    Take care (*hug*) Cécile
     
  17. jimL

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    Frustrated; Wow, you have truly had a difficult time in your life. It makes my situation pale in comparison. I guess I wish that my wife and I were having difficulties it would make a break up easier. But I can't ignore the fact that I truly do care about her.....that is what makes it so difficult.

    ---------- Post added 29th Dec 2011 at 10:58 AM ----------

    Cecile; Thanks for the story of your friends, it appears as though I am hearing the same thing from everyone. It's kind of overwhelming. I think I know what I have to do! Now, it's just figuring out how to go about it. It doesn't help that we have been married for 23 years and living together for 7 before that. That's a long time!
     
    #17 jimL, Dec 29, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  18. Emergelove

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    I find reading this thread very helpful. I don't feel alone after I discovered EC.
    I think Chip is referring to Joe Kort's 10 Smart Things Gay Men Can Do to Find Real Love. Chapter 8 to be precise. I have to buy it, too.
     
  19. jimL

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    Dam I must have bought the wrong book. Chip which one are you referring to?
     
  20. Frustrated

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    Hey, Jim. I wish having other problems in our marriage made my decision easier but it does not. I also love my husband and don't want to see him live an unfulfilled life hoping that I will someday be the passionate lover that he deserves. Yet it is difficult to leave the ones we love behind and pursue another life without them. Like I said, I think that we have developed this dependency on one another that has made separation difficult to imagine. Yet I know that at some point I really need to just grow up and be a big girl and do the difficult job of being real with him. The thought of divorce is really painful to me as I grew up not believing in divorce, but I think in my situation it is ultimately the only moral thing to do.