Gay in Denial. Help??

Well, to be honest... all the evidence I can see here points to you really being straight.

You like girls, you seem to naturally start flirting with them even in non-straight settings, and neither the idea nor the actual experience of being with a guy does it for you. Nor do you seem particularly dissatisfied about the experiences you had with girls in the past. And all throughout, you seem to be pretty cool about gay people.

So yeah: congratulations, you're straight! No matter whether society deems some of your mannerisms "gay".


I'm guessing that just like there's "straight-acting" gay people, it's inevitable that there also exist some "gay-acting" straight people.
I'm using quotes because in neither case it's an act. I don't come off as gay by mannerisms, but that's not because I hide my real mannerisms. It's just the way I naturally act. And neither should you change your mannerisms either. At worst, you'll have to laugh off the occasional preconceptions that others develop.

Your story does actually remind me of a close friend of mine. He does, on a lot of occasions, majorly ping my gaydar (And not just mine. Other friends have commented about it for years). When I came out to him, he did actually confess he had a bit of a questioning phase. But in the end, he found out that guys didn't even come close to having the same effect girls did, so he decided he was straight after all (joking about "maybe there's one magical guy for me out there!" aside ). So far he seems perfectly happily married, and I'm not going to second-guess him there.

So mannerisms are mannerisms, and don't change who you are. Your friends' help in trying to figure yourself out is noble (and as gay guys, they might think it looks similar to denial they went through, so it's nice of them to try and help out), but this time the answer is probably not what they were expecting.
which leaves you with some effort to convince them you're happy just the way you are, but in time they will probably get the message.


P.S. I took the liberty of merging the two threads into one in support and advice. Seems better to get coordinated responses that way.

 

Usually when people think someone "seems gay" it's because they have some gender variant characteristics--mannerisms, like you were saying. But gender variance does not necessarily mean that you are gay. Gender and sexual orientation are both determined by structures in the brain that develop before birth and are influenced by the same hormones (at least, according to current theory). Because of this, they are often found together, but not always.

Consider blond hair and blue eyes. Both hair and eye color are influenced by the amount of melanin a person has, and blond hair and blue eyes are often found together because both of those are basically the result of less melanin. But you can easily find people with blue eyes but dark hair, or blond hair and brown eyes. A blonde is more likely to have blue eyes than a brunette, so that, if you had to guess who had blue eyes and you could only see the back of people's heads, it would make sense to pick a blond person. But blond and blue still can be found separately.

Likewise, gender variant people are more likely to be gay than other people are, and gay people are more likely to be gender variant than straight people are, but the two things still don't have to go together. (I am the opposite case from what you seem to be: I am really really gay, but not gender variant at all, so that people, including other lesbians, often persist in thinking I'm straight no matter what I say.)

So, based on what you've said, I think that you are probably a straight but gender variant person. It's no wonder you are confused, our culture doesn't really allow for your existence.

I would not base anything on feelings you had while on ecstasy. And while we usually don't think that straight people ever really question their sexuality, I can see why your experiences while taking drugs might cause you to when coupled with everyone always telling you that you seem gay.

Seeming gay does not make you gay. Neither does getting turned on by guys while you are taking ecstasy. I've never taken it, but my understanding is that people on ecstasy get turned on by, like, the air.

I can only go by what you tell us, of course. But since you have not reported any attractions to men that were not drug induced, I don't think there is any indication that you are bisexual. (Your reported persistent interest in girls appears to rule out you being gay.)

---------- Post added 8th Nov 2011 at 04:08 AM ----------

Oh, and I've also known a couple ( ! ) gay-seeming guys who really weren't. I remember one of them had some really hilarious stories about people thinking he was gay--both gay and straight people thinking it. Some involved gay guys hitting on him, and others involved him basically pretending he really was gay in order to make some homophobes uncomfortable. But all of the stories were really, really funny. And if he were really a closeted gay person, I don't think he would be comfortable drawing attention to it like that.

And I know that there are butch straight women, which is the female version.

Incidentally, I think the gender variance, gay-seeming thing gets you a place under our big community umbrella, if you want it, regardless of your sexual orientation. :icon_bigg

 

If you were completely closed off to the idea of doing anything with a guy, then yeah, you might deeply closeted. But you seem to have been at least open to the idea - open enough that you went to gay clubs, and even kissed some guys. And it doesn't seem to be doing anything for you. And given that, I'm just going to go ahead and say you're straight.

You have some "gay characteristics"? So be it. When my (straight) brother and I are both out and about, it's my brother who more often than not gets picked as the gay one. He's a very fussy dresser, very neat in his appearance, and likes techno and dance music...but he's straight. Meanwhile, I'm the slovenly T-shirt-wearing guy who listens to rock....but I'm gay.

Lex

 

good post. lets face it. anything these days that doesn't make you a butch macho man means to the general public that "ohhh you must be gay". if you dress too nice and put together...you must be gay.... if you haven't been seen with a girl in a while.... you must be gay. if you like cooking shows or art....you must be gay. this is all rubbish. you are gay or interested in men if your predominate thoughts and sexual attractions are about men/same sex. passing thoughts here and there do not mean you're gay. but if you are not physically aroused by members of the opposite sex or if you are predominately physically aroused by the same sex, then you may indeed be bisexual or homosexual. the fact of the matter remains that 1million people can say you're gay, but if you know you are not, then you are not. what happens is that if people call you stupid long enough, you start to believe it and think "ok ,maybe they are right". there are a lot of men that may have mannerism that are more like women but that doesn't mean they like men. its your body, your mind, and your orientation. noone can tell you what you are. if you are in denial about your attractions to men, that's another story. but from what you wrote it sounds like you gave it a try and it wasn't really something you liked very much. now you have to ask yourself, did you not like it cuz you didn't like it or did you not like it because you thought you were supposed to be grossed out by it.

 

well you are starting to work through things. personally from what you're saying it sounds like you're in general unsure of yourself and lack self confidence. you personally do not sounds like you're really into guys. you watch lesbian movies, if you have watched straight films you never mentioned focusing on the guy, when you have watched bi stuff you did not get aroused from the guy on guy action....i mean, that's all pretty telling. even if you were uncomfortable, you would still have gotten aroused in your nether regions. trust me, your male parts have a mind of their own. anyway, maybe you should seek some counseling on your anxieties. good luck

 

Here's another guy who everybody thinks is gay but he isn't:

It Gets Better: A Christian Apology - YouTube

 

This is my first post on Empty Closets, so bear with me folks, and please call me on anything that may be out of line. With that said....

Hayyyyy, I had to bump this old thread because I have had a fairly similar experience to you: dated girls throughout high-school, and had some gay experiences in middle-school that I chalked up to “practice”, “experimenting” or “what I could get” at the time. Then, around my early twenties I had an overwhelming experience with Mdxx and psilocybe mushrooms in which I was “told” or “shown” that I was in fact gay.

As you can imagine this sent me into quite a tizzy. My mind was literally blown from the experience and I had to deal with integrating the expanded understanding and awareness of myself. For the record, I have had several long-term relationships (ranging 2-5 years) with females after this experience, all of which ended because of a nagging feeling that I was/might be gay – clearly I had not resolved the issue in my own mind.

I have, and still do on occasion, suffer the guilt/paranoia/shame/anxiety reactions you feel when someone veers onto the topic of gayness, or even when people talk about relationships or marriage (you may not be here yet, unless your family/society thinks you ought to be married soon). Mind you it has been nearly ten years since my mind was opened to this possibility, so keep in mind, things take time to sort out and restructure. I think it is especially difficult when the revelation or awareness comes in the form of a mind-altering psychedelic or empathogenic compound, as it is all too easy for people to write it off as “you were high on drugs” or some such.

My story may be of little relevance to you, as we are all unique creatures and we all have different paths that we need to, and choose to take. But for what it is worth, here is what I have found to be helpful...

Take a closer look at your personal feelings and thoughts about gay people, and do some cognitive restructuring where necessary. For example, if you value long-term relationships over casual sex, and think that gay men are only into meaningless promiscuous sex, take a look at all of the long-term couples fighting for marriage and adoption rights. Clearly if all gay dudes were promiscuous they would not be interested in settling down with children. This is of course working on the assumption that you prefer long-term relationships to casual sex. Regardless, the point is that it has been helpful to switch out deeply held, and erroneous, beliefs about gay people with a more realistic understanding – and this is wise regardless of your ultimate sexual orientation.

I would not recommend forcing yourself into sexual, or even relational situations that you are not emotionally capable of handling. In other words, please do not go out to bars and make out with people that you are not into. That can only damage your sense of self and well-being. Trust, affection, and mutual interest are important factors in relationships, sexual or otherwise. [Do I even need to add condom advise here?]

Part of gaining a better understanding of gay people, and gay culture, involves learning about the past and current struggles of the people and community. Take a queer studies course at your local community college, read some gay-affirmative books, or volunteer at a gay organization. I think that it is important to recognize that the twink and bear club scenes are not the only ways that gay people live.

I'd recommend some good books and films, but I am not sure what the policy on “advertising” is on Empty Closets, anyone? Is there PM on here? PM me if you like. Always up for a good chat and some tea.

 

Welcome, cyan! I'd say it's possible/probable that hayyyy might not get your message, since he hasn't signed in since mid-November. But you're welcome to post a list of films and/or books you've found helpful.

Lex

 

Right on Lex, I appreciate the warm welcome too

 

Well, you could always try the "quit fucking with drugs" approach. However, my first advice is that you ought to accept the fact that you are straight. It's okay to be straight. People in your life will still love you if you are straight. It is a perfectly normal way to feel, and most people will accept you for what you are.

There are some chicks out there who dig guys who are a little bicurious. Capitalize on it, man. Make it a part of the game. Enjoy your life, and don't ever feel like anyone or anything, inside or outside, is pressuring you to be either one way or the other. Just be wonderful you, and the really good people in your life will love you all the more for it.

 

Agreed, without a professional psychedelic psychotherapist these drugs can cause more harm than good. Best to avoid using them in uncontrolled environments.

 

Just my two cents: in the original post you mention that you don't think HOCD is a real disorder. I disagree . . . OCD comes in many flavors and often people who suffer from it obsess and worry about things that have no real basis. I think it's definitely plausible that some people who are really straight and have OCD tendencies would worry about their sexuality. In other words, while questioning your sexuality could certainly indicate that you aren't straight, I don't think that alone would be enough.

 

Hayyy and Socal. A little clarification on OCD, which someone else on here taught me, but I've looked into on my own. There is NO such thing as H-OCD on its own. For example, you couldn't JUST be OCD about being gay. It would be too specific and wouldn't really make sense.

BUT, if you actually suffer from OCD (more generally, not just about your sexuality), HOCD most definitely exists. Fears of being gay are a very common theme of obsessive compulsive disorder. Fears relating to sexuality (and not just gay vs. straight, lots of other sexual fears) and violence (unrelated) are two of the most common themes.

I suffer from pretty brutal OCD, but I am working through it. I don't worry about someone like you using HOCD as a shield for finding your true self. You've gone to gay clubs! like gay people! kissed guys! You seem pretty open to it all and don't seem to be trying to deny it.

Anyway, all of this begs the question in my mind: do you otherwise obsess and ruminate (excessively, not ordinary garden variety ruminating)? I, for example, spent a week freaked out that I might be trans after reading a post on transgender people and hormone therapy here. Never before had I thought I was anything other than male bodied, but I got myself all worked up. Happy to listen or help in any way I can.

 

I also suffer from OCD, or did when I was younger.. so one of the things I thought was causing my sexual attractions to men was HOCD, but the more I read about it.. the more I realized that people who suffer from this don't have predominant sexual attractions to the same sex, they usually just worry about the possibility of being gay due to mannerisms, being around gay people ,etc. OThers thoughts on HOCD would be helpful!

 

I frequently tell people that when you are in denial, the thing that seems the most horrible is usually the one that's true.

I still haven't seen any evidence that you are gay.