OK, so here’s the deal… I had a long chat with my brother last night. He’s 3 years younger than me, so that makes him 28. He recently moved back to town and has a pretty good job in a bank. We went out for a beer and it was my intention to come out to him. I did and I didn’t… I explain more below. It was interesting though as it was the first time I have ever gotten a pretty negative reaction. It’s disappointing. Here’s what happened. We talked for about an hour about business and other stuff. I needed to get a couple of beers in us both. Finally the conversation became more philosophical and I asked him about a mutual friend of ours who is openly gay. My brother said that he would be concerned about being linked to him publicly… not because he is gay per se… but more because he finds our friend kinda creepy. I let that go a little bit because if I am going to be totally honest and fair, our friend is kinda creepy. However, I have never been concerned about being seen with him or going out with him publicly, even before I came out to most of my friends. Hmmm… conversation not going particularly well, let’s move on. I said let’s forget about our creepy friend for a minute and talk about a hypothetical gay couple. They live together in a monogamous relationship. They have good jobs and wear their ties every day and cut the grass in front of their home and are otherwise no different from any other childless straight couple, but that they are gay. That’s when he asked me if I was gay… I simply smiled and took a swig of my beer and told him to react to the hypothetical. He said that those people should choose somewhere else to live and especially if they have family in town, they should leave town if they want to live like that. Hmmm… still not good. I really made him defend his position on that. I told him I think he has a pretty fucked up world view if he thinks that the opinions of “judgey strangers” should matter in finding a mate and making a life for yourself. We talked about a couple of other people we know who came out over the years. A family friend has a successful and happy lesbian daughter and a screw up drug user of a son who is unemployed, but he’s straight. My brother basically equated the two. He said that both do harm to their family name and should change their behavior. Then he made that same tired point of “you can’t help who you like, but you can help what you do” trash that I’ve heard forever. That’s basically how the conversation went. He asked me on two or three other occasions if I was gay. I refused to answer him. I did it rather obviously and it was a confirmation of sorts… there is no way he doesn’t know. I would have answered directly, but frankly I was pretty pissed at him. Perhaps I made him think a little bit. I was really hopeful that he would be more evolved than that. Unfortunately, I think this means I will have to have a somewhat superficial relationship with him. I am pretty disappointed overall, but I’ll be ok. It’s about what I was expecting. Frankly the whole thing has really taken a lot of the wind out of my sails. It makes me wonder if I have made a mistake being as open as I have been over the last 8 or so months. I’ll be fine I guess, I just don’t understand that mentality. Why should anyone be miserable just because who they love makes some very small minded people somewhat uncomfortable from time to time? Ugh, whatever. :eusa_doh:
Your brother may not be positive about you, but I would say he certainly has a VERY strong suspicion. You don't ask someone if they are gay numerous times during the same conversation with out suspecting something. The bad part is that the only real personal connection your brother has to anyone that is gay (that he knows of) is your creepy friend...so he may be (sub-consiously) associating everyone who is gay with that guy. If you get to the point where you feel comfortable coming out to him, hopefully all that will change.
I'm sorry your brother seems to be that narrow-minded (*hug*) But he also probably knows your gay, or at least have strong suspicion. At that point I'm not sure that it's worth hidding this from him. Maybe you can send him a e-mail telling him that you've planned to tell him something about you when you saw each other, but that given the turn of the conversation you prefered not to. Then come out to him and tell him that you suspect from your last conversation that this may not be happy news for him, but that this is who you are and that you don't want to hide anymore and intend to live happily the way you are. You can also add a link to Pflag website or booklets and invite him to ask any questions he may have. I believe that the best way to make people change their mind about gay people is to educate them, but I know it's neither fun nor easy. Anyway, don't let this bring you down. You haven't made a mistake being open during the last 8 months. So far, you get only one bad reaction to your "coming out". And keep in mind that if your brother can't deal with this, it's his problem, not yours. you're only responsible for your own happiness, so keep focusing on that. Take care (*hug*) Cécile
Thanks to both of you for the kind words. I'm not all that upset, it went pretty much as I expected. He definitely knows I'm gay, there is really no question about that, however I quickly figured out that he has no interest in talking about it with reference to me... no problem. Frankly though, I am more pissed at him than depressed about it. I am angry that he can't seem to get outside of this world view that what strangers think of the way you live your life is a priority. I think that he would be a happier person too if he stopped worrying so much about what other people think of him. Perhaps, I am too far on the other side of that spectrum... for obvious reasons. At this point though I am too angry to try to "help him understand" or anything along those lines. If he wants to be a bigot, that's his problem, not mine. It's not all his fault though... it goes back to how we were raised. There was always a major emphasis on "playing the game". We were always, and I mean without any exception ever, dressed in the most conservative clothes, told not to make waves or draw attention to ourselves, or ever say what was actually on our minds. What we wanted was simply not a priority when it came to what was socially acceptable. That's probably one of the reasons that I stayed in the closet as long as I did. My needs were simply not important compared to not making social waves. My brother unfortunately never learned the lesson that all that is bullshit though. He could frankly benefit from reading the kids book "Everybody Poops".
JC, I think it's pretty likely you are reading too much into this exchange in terms of its long-term meaning. If he's asked and you've tapdanced before, then he does pretty much know. However, this doesn't mean that he isn't in denial about it, and it's very, very common for a close friend or sibling to respond in this way to a brother or sister coming out. It's almost as though if the person registers his strong objection, he somehow believes that he'll stop you from being gay. Of course it isn't rational, but emotions are not rational. If you think of it in terms of the stages of grief, by your essentially admitting it, you've messed with his denial, and the next best thing to denial is... more denial. So in his mind, your moving out of town and his not having to think about it allows him to maintain denial and pretend you're not gay. (All of this, of course, is happening at a subconscious level.) It's also possible (even likely) that, as he's thought about the previous exchanges where you've tapdanced about whether you're gay, it may have made him question himself, and for a lot of people, that's a very scary thing, so maintaining his image of you as straight also helps him avoid such consideration of himself. (I'm not saying he's gay, just that it's common for one brother to question himself when another comes out.) My guess is he will have some issues with it, but I still believe that he will eventually be fine with it... he just has to get beyond the denial and accept that it's reality, and then realize that you're the same brother you've always been. I would suggest that you directly address it. He knows, for all intents and purposes, but if you say it, and he acknowledges it, then it's no longer in the realm of theoretical and he will have to accept it, and it will start him moving past denial. If you don't say anything more, then he can still maintain the denial fantasy. As much as you think you've come out to him, or it's pointless because he knows, he needs the clarity to move past denial. Be prepared for him to be dickish for a little while... but I would guess that within a month or less, his attitude will mellow and he'll start to be a lot more accepting. Perhaps he read "Everybody poops but you" instead, and so this experience will encourage him to go back and read the original.
First off, sorry to hear that your coming out to your brother didn't go so well. (*hug*) You have given him a chance to get to know you and understand the world a bit differently. Knowing though that you are gay might help him actually to start breaking out of his shell a little bit in the long run. Take a break and a breather for a few days. Now that he knows, and when you do talk with him, keep informing him about the things you do, and the people that you meet. Maybe that will help him (over time) to come to learn that living your life and not worrying about what others think can only be to his benefit. You have already said to him, 'I don't care what others think, it is my life to live.' Living your life and being yourself around him, might help him to come around and start changing his views a bit.
My brother is the most accepting guy in the world and even he gets a tiny bit flustered and doesn't know what to say when I bring up queer topics around him. He's getting better, though. So, give your brother time and live an example. Show him how much you don't care what his opinion is. You've obviously had to work a ton to get over your family and societal programming (the coming out process), but he's been able to coast until now as a straight guy, never challenging it. So, it will take him time.
>>>Frankly the whole thing has really taken a lot of the wind out of my sails. It makes me wonder if I have made a mistake being as open as I have been over the last 8 or so months. I’ll be fine I guess, I just don’t understand that mentality. Why should anyone be miserable just because who they love makes some very small minded people somewhat uncomfortable from time to time? Because they don't like their paradigm fucked with. Witness his reaction to the tie-wearing lawn-mowing gay couple. They should "move away" (to where? Gaytown USA?). Why? Because it upsets the paradigm. Gays are "them", and as long as you keep them at arm's length, they'll remain "them", and you don't have to deal with "them". You can dismiss them or belittle them or anything else you want to do. Here's the good news. You've fucked with his paradigm. You (more or less) came out to him. You told him that gays aren't "them". Gays aren't some people in Gaytown USA. His brother is gay. And he's presumably digesting that as we speak. If he's like most people, he'll come around to some degree. He may decide that "gay is OK". Or that "you're one of the good ones". Give him time. It took you years to come to grips with it - he's had less than 24 hours. Lex
I guess we will just have to wait and see. I'm pissed at him right now and not particularly interested in holding his hand through his little acceptance process... the guy is full of himself right now. I mean he can't even talk to me about a pretty serious thing in MY life without worrying how it will make him look. Not even so much as a "hell, it's not that big of deal... most people don't care these days" etc... I am a hell of a lot better than I used to be when it comes to understanding and accepting this particular aspect of my life, but I am not above moments of doubt and insecurity, especially when it comes to the fact that I'm gay. I'll go out with some gay friends and have a couple of beers and I will feel ok, but I really haven't had anyone to talk to about it all in person yet, and I am self conscious about bringing it up. Blah blah... I'll be ok, I'm just disappointed.
Hi there! Take a break. Yep, go with your friends and have a good time. You did what you needed to do. You told him about yourself. Be proud of that and give yourself a pad on the back. Built on the good feelings that you have built up about being gay. Give him time to accept it and come around. As you have mentioned above, his attitude and behaviour is part of your upbringing. So it will take some time for him to change and also remove himself from the idea that it reflects badly on him. He has to come around on his own time. You don't have to hold his hand through his acceptance process. Some space and self-reflection might be best for your brother right now. All you can really do is just live your life. By being angry at him you don't allow yourself to really live your life nor acknowledge properly the step you have taken yesterday evening. I think it would be perfectly alright to talk with your friends about it too. Maybe bring it up and see what your friends have to say. (*hug*)
>>>I guess we will just have to wait and see. I'm pissed at him right now and not particularly interested in holding his hand through his little acceptance process... It's cool if you can, but no one's required to. He'll come around on his own or not. Go live your life. Lex
you ever think he might be trying to push your buttons to get a rise out of you so youll come out? just a thought, kinda fuckd up way of doing it, but people i know have been more tactless in the past
LOL! I really don't think so (that would be shockingly dickish of him). I am just going to give him a little space right now. This isn't going to ruin our relationship or anything, and now a couple of days later, I am even a little less pissed at him. However, it is not my responsibility to help him grow as a person of make him more open minded. His fucked up world view is his problem, not mine. Seriously, this isn't easy on me either, so he can just deal with it on his own!
