First of all Numfarh, half the things you've said in your post I've never said myself, you're just assuming I said them (ie: gays being in two categories, me being better than the flamboyant ones, etc)...but I really don't take umbrage in what people assume so I'll get straight to the point. Who said it was? The flamboyancy shown at gay prides are a negative attribute and that's how they're portrayed...but why take my word for it? Go to any regular run-of-the-mill forum and simply ask the folks there what they often see and portrayed at a gay pride festival, then get back to me with the results That's nice, I major in psychology so I look forward to your reply...I guess this also implies that if I'm anti-guns all it simply means is I'm really a gun-addict myself? Right? Of course running around in high heels, leather pants, and a wig will get you noticed (no matter WHO or WHAT you are), that does not by any means imply that it's good for our cause.
(*hug*) That is for Lex. (*hug*) That is for Corina. Now, go back and read the posts they gave in this thread if your still against pride and/or the stereotypes, and i dare you to then go and find a reason why pride is a bad thing
Right, and people wonder why the moronic bigots can get things like Prop 8 passed, I guess it's just "too fucking bad" for gay people too, right? I'm a homophobe now? lmfao This is so typical, making idiotic assumptions with zero evidence, typical of the anti-gay diatribes I run into. 'So what' is right, now the next time you're wondering why people think 90% of the gay population are promiscuous crossdressing drags, don't complain, just look in the mirror; that's where the problem lies. Exactly, and gay pride contributes to this how? I'm proud of who I am, so what do you want me to do? Write GAY on my forehead and wear some speedos and a wig? Being who you are is my message, but I want these parades to represent the majority of the gay population. And if this is who gay people really are, then why aren't the crossdressing, half-naked guys doing it every day of the year? Why only during gay pride? It's who they are...right? In other words, do they become a conformist and everything you describe as 'negative' 364 days of the year and only become themselves for that 1 day? Where is the pride in that?
Obviously the people in the parade represent the majority of people willing to participate in a pride parade. They don't go "oh its gay pride, time to pull out my leather jumpsuit for today!" and then put i away the rest of the year. If you want "normal" gays represented then go ahead and get them to march in it.
I know it's supposed to be fun and I've always wanted to attend, I also believe that it sets us back. Among the Marriage Equality floats and walking PFLAG members, there's also tons of portrayal of sexual promiscuity and a lot of things that aren't family-friendly.
Then Say you want more "normal" gays marching, not that the people who march in it are ruining your life by perpetuating a stereotype, because honestly people in the parade don't give a f*ck what you think. They have no problem doing what they do, and won't have a problem with you doing what you want either. They just don't want people stopping them from doing it and that's why they are so outrageous.
I agree with the statement that education and knowledge get rid of homophobia. I think that, as gays and lesbians and bisexuals and transgender people, WE have a responsibility to represent the diversity of our community and to display more accurate depictions of ourselves as a whole by being ourselves individually. Cross-dressing or appearing very different from the societal norm is not threatening or bad, just because homophobes react negatively to those that appear blatantly queer. It is not our fault if others do not understand, unless we purposely avoid advocating awareness and knowledge.
NEGATIVE ATTRIBUTE? Who are you to say that its bad to be yourself in pride, but its ok to be yourself behind closed doors? The fact IS some of us are leather queen, some of us are drag queens, and some of us are just plain queens. Some of us are bull dykes, some of us are bike dykes, and some of us are just plain dykes. If you dont like who i am, then you can go suck it. Because i am who i am, and im no going to change that when the media is looking because the grey on grey on grey on grey heterosexual people sitting in there white picket fence house listening to the 6 o clock news will see a guy wearing pink and say "Gee, thats Different than my grey on grey on grey on grey lifestyle therefore it is bad". Pride is NOT about sending a false image out to the world showing all gay's as "normal people" so that we are accepted. The queens and dykes are the ones who INVENTED pride because all the other gays were busy organizing there closets that they hide in. If a "run of the mill" person only accepts other "run of the mill" people as "good", then why the hell would i care what they think of me? Ask any "run of the mill" person if they think being gay is equal to being straight, and you will get a flat out NO. So then, should you pretend to be straight because the "run of the mill" person has a certain opinion? No. If the average person does not accept you for you, then the average person can go suck it. Pride is not ABOUT conforming to what people WANT to see about us, its about showing people who we are and letting them decide if they want to accept us or not, but in the end we will still be here no matter what they choose. And whats good for "your cause" is not good for "everyones cause". If "your cause" is to show all straight people "hey! all gays are just like you!" then your going to have an awful lot of angry queens saying "i am NO straight person" and thats not saying the queen hates straight people, thats saying that he is and never WILL be a straight person. We can accept each other without being exactly like each other! If you want to tell the world YOU are just like a straight person but you like men, then go ahead. That is your choice and people should respect that. But dont think that what every other gay person does reflects what you should be and who you are. Pride is a good thing for many, and a bad thing for none. If you think its a bad thing for you, guess what? Dont go to pride. No one is forcing you. There! Problem solved! If YOUR not at pride, no one can judge you for being "one of them" unless they are an ignorant fuck, and if they are an ignorant fuck....why again do you care so much? And Corina might be right, often people who are against stereotypical gay people have some kind of ignorance towards them and until they meet one or befriend one and see that a drag queen is not a scary monster who goes bump in the night they will remain that way.
Oh my flippin' heavens, do you even read? Or do you just pick out the bits that serve your purpose? Haven't you been listening to anything Lex and I have been saying? There is nothing wrong with any of the stereotypes you have described. And getting society to accept gays is going to be side-by-side with getting society to see that dragqueens are great, that promiscuity is fine as long as you are safe, that having a penchant for painting your toenails purple is fabulous. Because some gays are fabulous and they deserve to be accepted too. You know why Prop 8 passed? Because of religion. Not because of flamboyant gays or because some people like to dress in leather. It's because of a book that was written a long time ago. A book that says that we are wrong in some terrible unfixable way. That's why. The adverts they put out were centered on "children need a mother and a father" and how we would be "pushing our belief system onto the schools". All bullshit of course, but point me towards an ad by "Yes on 8" that says, "We shouldn't let them get married because they like to dress up as the opposite gender." There isn't one. You know what? I bet some dragqueens would love to go out in public all gussied up all the time. They can't though. Because they might get attacked. So this one time a year, they can go out in public and just be whoever the hell they want to be. The point isn't about whether or not they are forced to blend in. The point is they shouldn't have to blend. We shouldn't have to hide our dresses or our leather. Just because it doesn't suit you does not mean it's not right or valid. There are normal people waving flags and marching in the parade. You just haven't been to one to see it with your own eyes. Oooh. A whole year of psychology degree? Dude, you are my age. You couldn't possibly know that much more than a basic 101 level. And besides, you are twisting my words. I'm saying that you are anti-associationwithgays. You don't want to be associated with the "terrible" stereotypes that come with being gay. Thus, afraid of saying you are gay. Get it? I keep repeating myself and I'm growing rather tired of you bringing up the same thing over and over again. Just try to take a second to actually read what we are writing instead of blindly saying that some gays are "teh evil" and you are a freakin' blessing upon the gay community. Harumpf.
Greggers what the hell are you talking about? Who said we should pretend to be straight? People here have to stop making these dumb assumptions by putting things into my mouth that I never said. So because I think gay pride does more harm than good that makes me douchebag conservative homophobe? I guess everyone else who voted for option 2 is in the same category, right? EXACTLY So...are most of us drag queens? Do most of us wear tight leather pants and wigs? Is this how most gay people are? Absolutely not and YOU KNOW IT Answer my previous question greggers, if these people really didn't care then why don't they be themselves 365 days of the year, and not just for 1? Why do I care? I care because (believe it or not) I WORK MY FUCKING ASS OFF trying to spread a positive message about gay people as much as I can. Do you know how many bigoted cunts I debate in real life in front of audiences trying to convince them that we're not these super crazy promiscuous people? Now I know you have the "fuck them" attitude but I say "fuck that" to such narrow-minded thinking, I want to convince MORE THAN JUST 50% of the population, I want 90% of people to see who the MAJORITY of gay people are...and gay pride does not represent us in that way.
Unfortunately the problem lies with you and not with the paraders. So vocalizing it solves nothing. Stop looking at the world and trying to change it to fit you, try changing yourself so you can tolerate the others in the world and coexists. Otherwise i wouldn't publicly take issue with a group.
Sounds like an excuse to me Want to be a drag, show PRIDE 365 Days of the Year, not just 1. I want people to be proud to be who they are ALL THE TIME, this is especially the problem I have with pride. Yes, of course I haven't...and you think most people who are straight have? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That's like a black man saying he's sick of seeing so many black kids go to jail and someone responding with an "oh, you're just afraid of being black all together" argument. I never said 'some gays are evil', I simply dislike the event. I never said that drags should never be drags, I'm simply saying I want these pride events to represent the great gay population. You should take your own advice on this reading stuff, and if I'm wrong here then prove it. Do you guys, like...think I'm trying to send drags to concentration camps or something?
I just found this topic too. omg. I might just have to sex you up for creating such good debates Tazz. Brb for this one too!! (!)(!)
For the sake of making a point i said "should we pretend to be straight" because if i have to "tone down my gayness" for the parade, then i might as WELL pretend to be straight. "these people" as you call them, ARE themselves for 365 days of the year. They dont put on drag just because its pride. Pride is the one day you can march the streets in your drag and feel SAFE though. Drag queens get beaten up if they walk those same streets the other 364 days of the year. Gay pride is not some event organized by a commite of "equal representation of the gay population" Gay pride is were are the people who are not SCARED to be out go and light up the streets for a day. If you want equal representation, then you would have to assume all the closeted people are not closeted. Many gays dont HAVE pride so you cant force them to march in the parade to show people "Look! These people are gay too, they just hate themselves for it...". If the pride parade is equal representation of people with pride, then its doing a damn good job. You can go try and make everyone love the homosexuals, but maybe you should speak for yourself alone and let the "homosexuals" speak for themselves, because trying to speak for everyone whos gay as a whole is about as useful as trying to speak for everyone whos straight as a whole. There are too many types of people all with different opinions and views, so you cant just clump them all together and try and sell "homosexuality" as a package deal to the straights.
I think people are arguing two different things... pride parades and "stereotypical" attributes. Yes, parades have some stereotypical attributes. But unless you go to SF or Berlin or Mardi Gras, you won't be offended by anything except maybe 2 or 3 floats out of the 100. Parades are portrayed to be worse than they really are. So the parade isn't the bad guy, the media is. That's my opinion. Try not to give it a bad rap unless you've been.
I never insinuated you wanted to kill them or harm them. (Don't twist my words) But you clearly have a problem because you feel their flamboyancy reflects badly on you. (correct?) And this is an issue with you. its not a problem with the flamers. This whole thread isn't exactly constructive, its only seems to be hurtful to others. (not necessarily your fault). I don't see a solution, you can't ask them to simply tone it down. I don't know what you wish to accomplish but somehow i don't think making this public statement will ever get it done.
Tazz, you just repeated yourself again. Saying it over and over doesn't make it true. A black man who doesn't want to be viewed as black because some people will think that he steals? A gay man who doesn't want to be viewed as gay because some people will think that he dresses in drag? Yeah. That's nothing like what you are saying at all. Your point is that you think that gay pride doesn't equally represent all aspects of gay life. My point is that they do and even if it was a lopsided parade of fairies, that is okay because they are an important part of the community. But maybe you are right. Maybe we should somehow convince the person behind the camera to take pictures of the boring everyday people and skip over the "offensive" ones. EDIT: I'm done here. Before I really start to lose my cool.
