pledge of allegiance

I don't remember if we had to say it or not.

 

Ahh, yes. This is big. I say it, I guess because I do plan on living in America when I grow up, but I don't really outwardly display my pride in my country. But yes, personally, I do agree the "Under God" phrase should be remove, but it's not really a topic that is extremely important to me, so I haven't bothered doing anything about it.


BUT, my real problem is with Texas. Stupid Texas. I BELIEVE (from some research I have done) that we are the only state to have its own state pledge. It's understandable because at one point we were our own country and everything, but I really don't think we need to glorify the state (I don't like the state, in general, anyways) with its own pledge, as we're sort of saying the same thing in the U.S. pledge. I opted to not say the Texas pledge (our teacher expects everyone to say both pledges unless we have a note from our parents). I'm betting only the school-educated children of Texas really know the pledge, anyways.

What REALLY ticks me off is that just this year the Texas state government added "one state UNDER GOD" to our pledge! So here it now reads, with the new insertion in brackets: "Honor the Texas flag; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas[, one state under God], one and indivisible." It really makes me mad and so I've started saying the Texas pledge the loudest in class, and explicitly cut off at the new insertion, in protest.

Nevertheless. my teacher told me that it was nice that I had such spirit for Texas, but I needed to quiet down. :x

 

Most of my teacher forve us to stand up and look at the flag like a sexy model, but some say it's ok, if you dont care

 

Well, if that's the case, I think you're going about proving your point in a completely inappropriate manner. Why did you have to "experiment" with not standing up? Why did you have to start a debate with your teacher during class time? You could have just gone to an administrator and simply asked whether or not you had to stand for the pledge if you were sooooooo curious.

And, besides, why do you feel the need to prove to your teacher and classmates that you don't have to stand up for and say the pledge, if you intend on standing for and saying the pledge anyway? Legally you're right that you don't have to stand and say the pledge, but I can't understand why you feel there is a need to have that stated to you; it's unecessary drama.

 

Just wanted to emphasize on that.

There are girls who would sit during the pledge for a short time... well... they were just looking to be special... like most children who try to sit during the pledge... yes there are plenty of people who set up the argument for them before so they just borrow that... but they are just trying for attention...

 

^^^

And see, that's just it. Although our OP genuinely respects the flag/country/pledge, not all of us do. One of the key things that makes the United States worth at least half a crap is that we have rights like freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Well, if someone is being FORCED to express respect or allegiance that they might not genuinely possess, then how exactly is that freedom?

Although I might not necessarily take up arms for this particular cause, one of the beautiful things about the United States is that people do in fact have the right to protest things with which they do not agree. If we allow people to say things like, "You should stand out of respect," and that respect is not genuine, then all we're really doing is allowing the erosion of the basic rights that make the United States a pretty decent place. It's the same principle as giving unquestioned allegiance to our president just because he's our president, or unquestioningly supporting our troops just because they're our troops. And in all of the instances I've mentioned, it's crap. Voluntarily giving up even the simplest of rights and freedoms to be "patriotic" is not patriotism at all. In fact, questioning the government, expressing frustration with flaws in the system, and speaking up against the government when they're wrong, those things are TRUE patriotism. Remember, the United States was founded by people that questioned and spoke out against the ruling government and expressed frustration with the flaws in the system. Had the founding fathers not gotten pissed about the way the British were running things and stood up for themselves, we WOULDN'T HAVE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Sure, the United States has some good things going for it. The Bill of Rights and the Constitution, along with the freedoms they grant, are beyond priceless. We have a great diversity of culture and entertainment and technology and all of the wonderful things that make modern life wonderful. But, this nation has some very glaring flaws, too. Our government is little more than a puppet of large corporations. Our health care system is great, if you're rich enough to afford it. If not, sorry, you lose. When it costs $1,000 to get three stitches in one's thumb, there's a problem! We don't take care of our poor citizens, nor do we even give them a chance. The gap between rich and poor is ever widening, and those in power not only don't give a shit, but they're actually reveling in it. We're behind the rest of the civilized world in regards to civil rights. I mean, it took us until the late 1960s to realize that something as simple as the color of somebody's skin was NOT a legitimate basis for discrimination, and the nation at large still hasn't figured out that sexual orientation and expression is not a legitimate basis for discrimination. We're currently fighting an immoral and unjustified war, and killing a whole lot of innocent people for the financial gain of those in power.

So you know what, I'm going to support anyone that doesn't feel as though they need to stand up for the Pledge of Allegiance. Like I said before, I personally haven't stood for the Pledge of Allegiance in several years. And, until this nation gives me cause to respect it again, I won't be getting out of my chair for the Pledge any time soon. And for anyone who's thinking of spouting off something like, "Well, you should love it or leave it," consider this. Americans have the right to NOT love it, and if something's broken but has great potential, you shouldn't ignore it. Instead, you should make an effort to fix it.

 

Well Xequar, I think that's very sad that you believe this country is so terrible. Judging from that rant you gave, I guess living in a country like the former Soviet Union would fit you better. At least getting the stiches you might have needed once in your life didn't cost you $1000.

Anyway, I don't see why y'all have a problem with simply standing out of respect for the country. Not for the government's politcal positions and all of the flaws they create, but for your fellow citizens and the dedication of everything and everyone that makes up the good parts of our country.

And if I ever met someone in person who did not at least stand for the pledge, I wouldn't say anything to them. All they want is to prove a politcal point, and I'm more than happy to allow them to do that, because it's their right to behave like that. But I do have the right to disagree with their motives for not doing so.

 

Oh, please, give me a break. Don't act like either one of us has any good idea what life in the USSR was like, and don't try to tell me I think this country's terrible when that's clearly NOT what I said.

Like I said, I like the United States, and I think this country has potential to be great again someday. But, right now this nation is a shell of what it could be. The point I was making about the $1,000 stitches is that someone making $20,000 per year trying to feed a couple of kids and has no health insurance CANNOT AFFORD health care. So what happens? Our nation's poor citizens get screwed. I think it's absolutely abhorrent that in what is allegedly the greatest nation in the world, we let hard working people linger in poverty with no health care and no hope because our health care system and government are run by major corporations who want nothing more than to line their own pockets.

You want to talk about scary? I recently was hit by an SUV as I was riding my bicycle to work. My leg was broken into 14 pieces, requiring major surgery to put back together and four days in the hospital. I'm going to need physical therapy, and there will be a number of doctor's visits as the leg heals. God bless the skill present in America's health system. BUT, my insurance will only cover 80% of the costs, at the most, and might not even cover that. Conservatively, this little adventure with my leg is going to run at least $50,000. I might be looking at $10,000 or more of out-of-pocket medical bills. Again, consider the poor single mother trying to raise two kids on the $20,000 per year she makes working at whatever job she can get with her high school education, since she couldn't afford college. Put her into my situation, and she's bankrupt, destitute, and has pretty much no hope of any kind of a future. I'm sorry, but if the "greatest" country in the world can't even take care of its own citizens, then I don't think it legitimately deserves the title.

And the health care thing is just one topic out of many that I could rag on right now.

One thing I will agree with you about, though, is that we do have the right to stand or sit during the Pledge to demonstrate whatever political position we might possess. We don't even need to agree about it, either. What we do need to do is exercise and preserve the rights we have, or else we won't have them anymore.

 

I believe that the purpose of this thread was to discuss the Pledge of Alliegance; not for you to spread your politcal views. And don't preach to me about the plight of single mother's in this country, I have first hand experience with that problem.

 

i dont say the pledge any ways but i agree with you they cont force it i made that argument to that is why no one trys with me

 

No, my school doesn't, but if you are American, they would look down on you, and might say something. But I do leave the "under god" part out, and haven't received any comments from the faculty.

 

And that's fine, you're right you don't have to do anything. But my point was that y'all should at least stand, regardless of whether you have to or not. I never said anyone must stand, but I do believe it's disprespectful not to.

 

Why should I stand and respect a country that refuses to respect me? GBLTIQ people in this country are not respected, at all. When I have equal rights, sure, I'll stand. But until then, I don't see any reason to.

On another point, people shouldn't be forced into patriotism. It doesn't really mean anything if you're forced into it.

 

i think we should just have to stand in respect. i dont think we shoud have to say it

 

(again, I'm not American, so feel free to disregard my opinion)

I don't think people should be forced to stand. I mean, in my context, I would be disapointed if someone I knew didnt stand for the national anthem, but I don't think it should be forced upon someone.

As much as I personally think it would be dumb not to stand in respect of all the good things about the country you are inhibiting, I think it would be unjust to force people (esp in a place like America, which has such strong freedom of speech laws) to stand