I felt feminine?

That happens to me sometimes, but in the reverse gender role. I am typically feminine or neutral. Sometimes I may feel a bit masculine when I'm around other guys. I do sometimes dress masculine/neutral, but also often dress feminine frequently. Like you said gender is weird. Sometimes it's hard to figure things out. It doesn't mean that you're not trans or genderfluid. You can still be masculine. Whatever makes you happy.

 

I think that’s ok. I am a girl and always have been a girl, but I have my masculine moments. Mainly because I have tons of brothers. I sometime dress in my brother’s clothes, which I love doing, but not because I want to be a guy, I am just a very masculine female. I used to blend in with my brothers, I dressed like them, acted like them, just I had long hair and (I would like to think) I was more pretty. I still am very masculine in how I think things about and how act on my emotions. I just think that gender is really fluid, and there is Aline, somewhat thin, between girl and boy, but you are just you no matter how you act or what you wear. Anyways, that’s what I think!

 

I'm a trans guy and I feel pretty masculine most of the time but sometimes I feel feminine, I mean I don't like it but I feel it. Or I enjoy feminine things and sometimes I imagine myself as a girl but I know that I would be very unhappy and uncomfortable in that life. It doesn't change who you are Stichy, we still love you no matter what. You're really cool and nice, whether you're feminine or masculine or neither of both. You're still Stichy and we love you. :^)

 

I have a question (and I am asking in order to educate myself not in an accusatory tone in case it happens to come across that way).

But how does one who is non-binary and/or trans, know what being the gender they don't feel they are is like? Like if you aren't something, how do you actually know what it would be like to be that person?

For example, if you are trans male, therefore not a woman, how would you know what it feels like to be one enough to know you aren't? Not questioning whether one is trans or not, just curious about that part. I am even more confused with non-binary individuals who don't identify with either, because how would one know that what they feel like is any different to what women or men feel like if they aren't either? I am just genuinely curious.

Everytime I see a thread about non-binary/genderqueerness, feeling feminine or masculine seem to be almost immediately associated to clothes and/or wanting to dress a certain way. But clothes are genderless by nature, in fact almost everything we, as humans, do that isn't directly linked to our biology and genitalia at birth (like menstruating, carrying a baby, producing sperm etc...) are genderless. Whether society associates things with females and other with males such as dresses and makeup or football and cars, doesn't really matter right? Technically there is no rules of the universe that say and means that makeup and dresses is for girls only and cars and football are for boys only, it's all a social construct based on an historical need to maintain the divide between females and males. So why if most of us acknowledge that gender is a social construct and the gender stereotypes are stupid and unnecessary (which seem to be the main message and feeling being experienced by non-binary folks who also seem to be the one who would suffer most from all the gender stereotypes) why do non-binary folks then tend to hold so much into constantly associating femininity/masculinity with the most gender-stereotypes actions and things such as clothes and therefore reducing masculinity and femininity back to the stereotypes they are fighting?

So I guess my question is, if you identify as non-binary (in whatever shape that means) especially genderqueer I guess, how do you know that what you experience isn't just the same normal feelings everybody else may have at different degrees? Most people I know don't associate with any of the gender stereotypes associated with both women and/or men and much more a balance of both (me included) and beyond, yet don't identify as genderqueer/non-binary at all (more like humans who acknowledges stereotypes are limiting and unnecessary maybe?), what's the difference between rejecting gender stereotypes and being cis and being non-binary? Again, I am asking not to be goady but to try and gain some knowledge and perspective into this as unfortunately, it's hard to ask genuine question to a subgroup of the community without getting your head chopped off nowadays, so figured EC would be a safe space to ask and hear from various non-binary folks to see if they all agree on the subject/feel differently about it differently or hear about their experiences.

 

I don’t identify as non-binary, but I think I understand why some people identify as non-binary as opposed to rejecting gender stereotypes. I used to think I was non-binary.
1. For some people this is just the way they feel, identify, etc. End of the story. They are not announcing it, but not hiding it either.
2. Some people feel more of a need to underline this than others.
3. Some even feel body dysphoria because of this. They are very distressed by the situation.
4. It somehow links to lower threshold of tolerance, less of a “go with the flow” attitude, more anxiety, maybe a more analytical attitude, than, say, in your case or my case. I know quite a few people on the autism spectrum who actively identify as non-binary. I’m trans but I think that if I really analysed the subject deeply, I would conclude that I’m non-bianry, because I have some feminine traits. But “guy” fits for the most part, so I go with that.
5. Some people who identify this way are teenagers and are trying to find out who they are, using countless labels, be it in the area of gender or subcultures or sticking closely to a school community or a friend group.
6. Some are very close to being (binary) trans, but are not quite (binary) trans. Like, they want certain elements of medical transition but not others, or they are a very typical man or woman from personality and the body is the opposite, but they don’t want to change it and identify with this duality.

 

First of all, thank you for your answer, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain in your own words.

I guess to address point 4 and 6, you refer to ''feminine traits'' and ''man/woman'' personality and I guess my question is what does it mean and what is it? Like what are ''feminine traits'' or even ''masculine traits'' and what is a woman or man personality? I am a cis-woman but my personality, is well, as in the name: Personal. There is nothing feminine or masculine about it, my personality is just the sum up of my ''thoughts, opinions, likes and dislikes, sense of humour etc...'' My personality is unique to me as is everybody else's and is by default neither masculine nor feminine. I get experiencing dysphoria and the need to change one's body to fit the physical aspect that one wants (though I would imagine that people who do any plastic surgery to change a part of themselves, be it nose, breasts and whatever else probably also experience dysphoria to a certain extent and therefore don't really see a big gap between people wanting a different nose to people wanting a different genitalia though of course, the process and social acceptance is extremely different and non-comparable, I am just more talking in the sense that wanting for a different body part seem to be a rather common thing amongst both cis and binary individuals as well as non-binary individuals.) but I guess more talking about non-binary individuals who aren't experiencing much dysphoria but don't feel either male or female or don't feel male or female ''enough'', like why is it easier to assume that one isn't male or female if they think/feel the way they do instead of thinking that maybe it is how some male/female (whatever sex they happened to be born with) feel?
I guess that's the question I am struggling a bit more with in terms of understanding the thought-process (or feelings) behind it?

I don't know I think it's because for me, assuming that you can't feel or have masculine traits (whatever that means) if you are a woman and therefore can't fully be a woman if you do and obviously have to be something else, if that's actually the thought-process behind it, would be a bit reductive and slightly lumping both men and women in very stereotypical boxes.

So that's what I am trying to pinpoint and understand. Though I guess maybe it's impossible to unless being non-binary?

 

But we live in a society and words masculine and feminine have certain meanings. Not because someone judged that men have to be this and women have to be that. Because if you say blue, you mean a certain colour and it isn’t green. Of course, those two are more nebulous, and you will probably have to ask the person in question what they mean. To me they are - what most men are, what most women are. Like a man, like a woman. I won’t supply you with specifics, because it isn’t my story at all, I don’t give it much thought. As far as I know, I’m like men and not like women, and that is my problem. On a side note, for many trans people this is where their problem with their body stems from - if who you are and the body cotradict, the body is an obstacle. You get stuck in an odd limbo in which the body tells lies about you. Taking even the example of EC - I had people read odd things in my posts when I presented as female. I was like... where did they even take that from? So as I said - problems. Yeah, sure I could split it into single traits and constantly argue... constantly... seriously constantly, on every step, what a drag - that a woman can be this or that, but why do that? Why transform your whole life into a battle just in order to avoid acknowledging that in most cases men and women have certain traits and you got the mixed up deal? For people who are more intermediate, sure, it works to argue your point from time to time, but some people have a larger scale of this problem.

Why masculine traits would mean you’re not a woman in the non-binary case? I dunno, there is also something I noticed about butch women, it’s that they identify as women on a gut level or at least don’t feel in any specific way. They have an ease thinking about themselves this way. They also seem to want to be treated like women, maybe not in a feminine manner in all cases, like someone delicate, romantic and so forth, but for sure they want their female identity to be respected. They seem to feel like being a woman represents them in any way. So maybe this is the same kind of thing with non-binary vs gender non-conforming. Those “stereotypes” will be the reason why someone feels a certain way, but maybe it’s a subjective thing which traits or experiences (like the experience of being male or female in society and in life) you identify with the most - if you have any contradiction between them, of course, and unless the split is extremely strong (like someone with female genitalia but with masculine personality, into women and dreaming of being a muscular man physically).

 

I'm a gay man and I have fem moments, it doesn't bother me now, it's just who I am, it doesnt make me less of a man.