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mixed signales from a "straight" friend

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by Spades4, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. Spades4

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    Hi everyone,

    I know this forum is full of same vibe topic, I've read a bunch of them seeking for answer but instead it made me write mine.

    That's the first time to me I need to express my concerns and I've never been lost like that. I'm a 23 french guy, (who doesn't speak english very well) still in the closet and no one knows or even suspecting me (and still not sure about that). Eh, and I'm Muslim too, so coming out is not very the goal here since my mom lives alone, my father left us one day without preventing (2 years ago) and I know for sure that I would break my mom if I tell here. I'm very ok with this, I know I will tell her one day eventually but not for now considering that I've kinda replaced my father (I'm the oldest) to my little bros. The burden is quite heavy but still I love them and do or won't do anything that hurt them. My gay life is mostly on dating apps... not so fun.That being said, I'm here to talk about that very good friend of mine who's been very playful with me, making endless eye-contact (damp as well)... and much more. Sorry I try my best to express myself in english so I might not translate as strongly as I think.

    We know each other since I'm 16yo (today 23). We are a very solid group of friend (5-6) and we see each other almost every day. But lately, maybe for 6-7 months I would say, the closest friend is clearly flirting with me. He started doing it when his ex girlfriend broke with him (his first love according to him). Since then, I was very supportive (and always straight acting).

    Time flies and we are seeing each other more and more, sometimes (without saying it to each other) lying to our mutual friends, (about what we were doing tonight, or if we went out or not) just to stay the two of us. He started by complementing me, how I was great looking (which I think he's wrong lol). Didn't give much attention to this, he always was teasing and foolish (in the good way).

    Then he invited me to sushi restaurant, said it was our date, our one-to-one... I took it very slightly and kept that way with him.

    So we are two officially straight guys, eating in a restaurant one-to-one (even though we do everything as a group), complementing each other, asking where we at with girls and a lot of damp eye contact and silly smiles... After that, we are seeing each other literally EVERY DAY, pretending to our friend we were watching anime (and we did) and with this constant "hit and run", like a flirt game. He's sweet talking me, either I step back or I do the same, a lot of hints but nothing conclusive.


    More lately, he took it to the next level : sexual hints.

    Saying he may "deal with my ass", miming blowjob and he even gave me a nickname with "bae" in it and I use it for him as well.
    In the same time, he sometimes express how much gay stuff gross him out (two guys kissing for example) but very friendly to outed gay guys we know.

    1 month ago, I pretended I went to see a girl (was a dude lol) and he kept telling me he didn't know about that, he thought I would've tell him or even take him on a date. I didn't answer him, just a smile and told him he acted silly (because you never know).

    The day after, he told me about that again (and can't tell if ironic or he uses irony to make it unclear). We were talking about the fact he got hurt whent I didn't tell him about the "date with the girl".

    Me : "Its ok, you know I tell you everything"

    Him : "Emmh... And once again, I though you were going to date with me"

    Me : "We can"

    Him : "I'm gonna to pick you up" (in the way he's clearly into me)

    Me : "We'll see which one he's gonna pick up who"

    Him : "No worries, I'm an enterprising guy + a gif with a heart"

    Plus, we booked with the group (4 of us) a big villa for summer. We are going with one couple plus him and me. He made me notice that we are going there as couples, and said we could form one, act like one there... but still very ironical. I love him and hate him for that, can you not make it simple lol ?
    I took in charge the research for an AirBnB, really wanted to find one place with 2 large bed, which I did. We even booked for only 2 of us another AirBnB 3 days before our friends get to us, and with one bed too. He told me many times that he would do great things under sheets.

    This week end (2 days ago), birthday party in his house for one of these mutual friends. His ex GF came too, and it was really weird.
    After all the drinks, he invited me to stay to sleep with him because he wouldn't let me drive. He added (I didn't say a word yet) that he didn't care about his ex, and I should stay. I was happy and excited so I accepted. One hour later, when we were about to go to sleep, he ended sleeping with his ex. He even suggest sleeping in his sister's bed. I declined and pretending I was fine to go home and wanted to get to my bed. I was deeply disappointed, and a felt a bit betrayed.
    What does he want ? What's the deal with him ? with me ?

    But I'm very tortured, because I felt for him. I don't know if we are still playing a game, or if we are two guys (me in the closet, and him bisexual I would say, or discovering his attraction to guys) waiting the other guy making one step that will make us kiss.
    I'm putting a lot of hope on this holiday.

    As I said, I can't tell I'm gay, too afraid he's not and put me in a very difficult spot with him and maybe my other friends which leads to my family. I know I will come out, but not now, it's not my time yet.
    Did you experience something similar ? How can I make him make a move on me ? Every day I'm seeing him I want something happens, and he said he's enterprising so I'm expecting him to do so.


    Any help ?

    Thanks a lot and sorry for my poor english.
     
  2. TwoFeech

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    As to your relationship trouble, all I can say is that if you're not able or willing to come out now, you need to be just as truthful with him about that as you wish he would be truthful with you. You need to figure out exactly what you hope he will do, and talk it over with him. And be honest about how you are not ready to come out, meaning that any relationship you have will be closeted.

    So I don't have much advice about that. I can, however, help you with this tricky English phrase, at least the US versions of it. We have many ways of saying the same thing you are trying to say here:

    "Making endless eye contact" is perfectly correct, though we might say "flirting with their eyes" or "making love with their eyes." But your phrasing is fine. I don't know what the British English say, but in the US when someone's eyes are full of feeling, full of emotion, we say they have moist eyes. I frequently see the word damp in translations where in American English the commonly used word would be moist. Of course you can also just say their eyes are full of emotion. "Damp" in eyes connotes actual tears, weeping, which I don't think was your intended meaning.

    As for making eye contact with each other in a romantic context, such as at your dinner date, we call that "gazing into each other's eyes" or "we gazed into each other's eyes."

    We might also say "they were making eyes at each other" or "he was making eyes at me." "Making eyes" means giving a look at someone, with romantic intent.

    When we talk about a couple who are making eyes at each other or flirting using eye contact, we say of the couple: "They make lovey-dovey eyes at each other". But we don't say that about our own relationships, we only say it about others, as sort of a way of teasing about them, meaning they're sappy and silly in-love.

    I had a couple of years of French in school and I can guarantee you that your English is way better than my French!

    I think it's admirable that you are devoted to helping raise your brothers. That seems like an excellent goal.
     
  3. TwoFeech

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    Okay, so maybe I do have something else to add. If you're afraid to come out to him, because it might get back to your family, and you're really not ready for that to happen, then this is not a safe time for you to be flirting with this friend. If you can't trust him to keep this secret, then the safe thing for you to do is to stop this right now. If you do kiss and more, how do you know it won't reach your family?

    That right there is your way out of this while still remaining friends. When he suggests romance or sex, flirts, etc. say, "Maybe someday, when seeing guys kiss doesn't gross you out anymore." And make sure you never go anywhere really alone with him. Have another friend there wherever you go, until you both cool off.

    That's just my opinion based on how you seem really worried he might turn around and out you. That's not something you sound like you can let happen in your life.
     
  4. Spades4

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    I'm ready to come out if we are going through this both of us, but coming out for ending up alone and exposed would be too hard for me to handle. He's the reason why I'm torturing myself this much, I know I'm gay since my 15. 8 years later I know I still am and I've never seen any opportunity to come out before this story.

    Thanks for the tips !


    I will always do anything to protect them, whatever it takes, starting to preventing them to get homophobic comment in a homophobic environment like Muslim community/family. I won't be the source of their suffering, they suffered enough. I might crack one day, but I have enough strength to hold it long enough until they are fine to take it.
    But there is a voice in my head saying that this should not make them suffer, and even if they take my coming out well, people talks and with all the pride I have in me I won't give anything to anyone to spit their hatred once more. (family matters lol)
    I'm determined to it. And I feel that only this guy can make me a little bit more in peace with myself. Even if he's not gay I will come out to him this summer. And will explain him everything.

    I'm not afraid that he'll speak about me being gay, if he's sincere with me he will protect me. But if he's trying to make me outed, because he noticed I'm closeted and I won't say a word, then it would be a disaster for me.

    Thanks a lot for your reply ! And I feel more confident about my english lol, didn't use any translator for this post.
     
  5. TwoFeech

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    Does he not know how serious of a situation this is for you? Maybe you should tell him what kind of damage he could be doing. That is, if you trust him enough and feel safe enough with him.

    So much in this situation depends on what kind of friendship he has with you. If he's exploring his own orientation, and does something romantic with you and then regrets it, would he out you in order to express his self-disgust? Not that you can necessarily know the answer to that, but if you don't feel safe taking the flirting to the next level, your anxiety could be trying to warn you. Then again, things could turn out well. It's just that you have such strong reasons for needing to stay closeted.
     
  6. Kwekie

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    Up until this point all of the flirting and innuendo has been, at least consciously, premised as a joke or irony, right? You could simply try being direct with him. You dont necessarily have to say you are gay to him in order to do that. Ask him what his deal is. Maybe slide into that conversation by mentioning the [fictitious] types of women you are attracted to, something like that. Bring up the topic of attraction generally/curiosity. A bit of alcohol might help if you drink.

    edit: "In the same time, he sometimes express how much gay stuff gross him out (two guys kissing for example) but very friendly to outed gay guys we know."

    you know i bet a lot of gay guys recognize their younger selves in this behaviour, I know I do. The truth is disgust is a pretty strong reaction for something that doesnt concern you. The fact that hes disgusted by it-- and flirts with you-- makes me think he is gay, or at least bisexual. Clearly he hasnt come to terms with it though. You have to keep that in mind regardless of what he ends up saying or doing, that he may not be comfortable with himself. Relationships like that are often toxic.
     
    #6 Kwekie, Jul 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  7. Spades4

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    He knows everything about my family situation and always was supportive. He often check up for news and has been advising me whenever I needed. As for my orientation I think he would keep the secret regarding all the things he already knows about me and did'nt say a word.

    That's my point and you said it very well. Part of me wants to dig a bit more into it with him (and giving me that one chance to accept me as a homosexual) but in the worst case scenario : my friend isn't bi/gay or interested in me and tell other people my sexual orientation.
    I know I'm making the situation seems worse than it is because I've already read a lot of hints from him, but I could've "miss read" some of them.
    I thought the best thing to do is to wait for this 2 weeks in the Airbnb and try to make him to speak about it and what are we or is there even something between us so I could move forward.

    I keep thinking about this, but us talking seriously about or us being more touchy with alcohol : it has happens many times. The only thing that restrain myself is this tiny doubt about getting outing for nothing.

    For example, like 2 months ago, we went out as a group, he and I had some drugs in a techno party, he was very touchy, tactile with me. Even stood right behind me, touched my back very quickly and danced. Lot of fuzzy vibes (with the drugs), he even said he loved me in the ear (because of the loud music) with a kiss on the cheek. Drugs make you say nice things and love everyone so I didn't want to see it as having the green light.
    To my others friends, he just seemed he was telling me something and hugging me

    I tried to make him follow me far away from our friends (to be sure), but one of them followed us. I really wanted to kiss him, he was clearly saying to me "go ahead" but I'm too afraid that us flirting was too noticeable.

    At the end of the party, I pretended I was tired so we went to the car 45min before the event ends. I really wanted to be alone with him, he followed me. In the car we were smiling a lot, saying nice things to each other, looking in the eyes and I'm sure that if a girl (our mutual friend) didnt come as well, we were going to kiss each other. I already had my head laid of his shoulder and his hand touching my cheek. She surprised us, and I pretended we were too high.
    The following day, drugs away we just told about how cool that party was, spent a great time together...

    You're right, I felt the same when I was discovering myself. Like having sex and feeling guilty, dirty after that. But if it's the case, he's very very good in straight-acting. Always talking about girl, making a lot of date on app. But he's never attached to a girl and break up with them quickly.

    It's already is lol :frowning2: I want to clear up what's going on between us by giving me the best chance and moment to succeed or fail without collateral damage.

    Thanks you both. Having somewhere to talk is making me feel great and lighter !