Same sex vs opposite sex relationships for bisexuals

Nickw, it is a shame that you feel disconnected because of your sexuality however I do understand it. I find in my group of gay friends most accept bisexuality as nothing more than a stepping stone to becoming gay. I personally don’t see it that way but many feel once you have been with a man why would you ever want to be with a woman again. I could never see myself with a woman again for sure but I don’t have any negative feelings towards someone who would. However I could never be involved with someone bisexual in a relationship as I would need to be with another gay man exclusively.

 

Yes, how to integrate the same sex desires is definitely something I’ve struggled with.

I think for me the emotional connection with a woman is a big part of it - I think I do experience this part of a relationship differently than with a man.

I’m like you, some days I feel I’ve got it all sorted and others days I’m like wtf am I doing.

My husband is generally very supportive although as I have continued to be more open and honest about my same sex desires I think he has felt a little threatened by that, which is understandable. I agree that open and honest communication are key.

 

This is so common and it's sad. I know that a lot of people think it's a stepping stone. For some it is but for many it's not. There are some people who just want more people in the fold, for the numbers, yet don't care about them or their situation. I don't feel indebted to anyone or any group.

Most bisexual people seem to enjoy certain sex acts with one gender and other sex acts with the other gender. There's no need to elaborate. It's more physical than it is emotional, at least for many men. Most of the men I know who are straight, bi, or don't want to be categorized who have sex with men do it because of how much mileage they can get and because the sex has more energy. They're looking for something beyond the heavy duty demands of dating and being sized up for the long haul. If you think about getting into a person's 20s or even in college, some guys were always hit on by women as potential mate material. Some of these guys were also hit on by guys on occasion and it was just for the thrill of it. Some people couldn't deal with that at the time, but filed the advance away and acted on it later. Their affectional preference never moved along the spectrum with these actions. I also think that you don't have to worry too much about the bisexual in a relationship, at least men with men. Many don't seem to be interested in nesting and making a commitment to a full on gay household. But some straight guys don't mind having bisexual wives. I'd think that's as much of a cause for concern as are bisexual men. It's the double standard that won't go away.

 

Love that you keep this updated and that you seem to be progressing through your journey. If you don't mind, here is some added context to the things that you are experiencing.

Its possible to love either gender equally. It happens all the time for everyone. I have been able to love two men in very equal ways because I connect to them in different but equal ways. It has less to do about gender, and more to do with the understanding that we connect with each person in different ways. It seems you are starting to make that discovery yourself and that any connection you have with a man will not take away from your wife.

I will just caution you to make this statement based on gender. It will limit your growth because men and woman aren't different because of evolution. They are different because of how we as a culture socialize each gender. This is a key difference because it both explains your experience AND it also teaches us that each gender is able to unlearn toxic behavior if they so desire and learn to interact with any other person in ways that they desire.

The conclusion of genders that you came to is also where you will get some push back from people like me btw. (just saying this because your thread started with trying to understand where the push back comes from). Its part of the growing process but its important to keep in mind that at the end of the day, the way we understand gender and gender roles, has gone past the "guys are from mars and women are from venus" talk that many of us have been harm by. So when another LGBT person brings it back up, it can bring up a lot of emotional baggage.

Not your fault because you are learning and getting these conclusions from your life experience, BUT I do want you to understand where some of the push back might come from

Is there a group for LGBT people in your area for these activities? If not it might be something that you could create and organize for yourself so you can meet more of the people that you want in your life and help create a group where the understanding of bisexuality is expected of members.

 

And this is a valid concern, but you are going to continue to find yourself in a catch 22 situation.

I think you have a vision of what a certain space for LGBT people would look like. If you aren't finding that around your community then I would highly encourage you to at least think of creating the space yourself. I had to do something very similar around my community, and while I was nervous as hell, I was able to meet people who felt just like I was feeling at the time.

Might not be your thing, but it would be a solution to all your problems. You will get to meet guys that have your same interest, create a space for other people to be their whole selves, and you get to be part of something.

I'm personally struggling on how to give you feedback without taking away space that you need to digest all of this information.

All I will say is that research is simply not on your side on this. Open relationships for example were largely led by lesbian groups. Polyamory groups are also largely led by straight women around the country.

Either way, I didn't mean to say "Hey stop saying that" because you need your space to explore all these thoughts you are having and I'm glad EC is here for that. I simply wanted to let you know some perspective because of how you started this thread.


Keep us updated!

 

This is a really interesting thread. Biphobia is a reality. I started going to an LGBT group a few months ago. One of the members has been kind and supportive to me and I've gone for a drink with her. She says she is technically bisexual as she's had substantive relationships with men, though leans towards women. Lots of the members of the LGBT group are not 100% gay, but she says nobody identifies as bisexual. There is stigma. And many people do not understand that there are differences within bisexuality - some people are attracted to both genders equally - but many are not. Maybe I am one of those very annoying people who is on a stepping stone to the full gay label because the longer I have been in a gay relationship the more gay I am feeling.

I think the discussion about whether men and women experience sex differently is thought provoking. From what I see, both socialisation and biology have had a bearing on how my sexuality is expressed. I think that heterosexual and lesbian sex both have the capacity for acts of pure sex and acts of lovemaking. There is certainly a myth about heterosexual sex being rougher and more lust fuelled than lesbian sex. That is not the reality. Women are raised to feel that being lust filled and physical is not for "nice girls". As a result some women also feel ashamed of more carnal desires and find it hard to own them. In reality, both men and women can be turned on by rough or soft sex.

 

I do want to add that my personal experience is that I find it difficult to disengage the physical and emotional aspects of sex. The most fulfilling and intimate sex I've had with my girlfriend is when I've been feeling very emotionally connected to her, in addition to enjoying the sight, scent and touch of her body.

 

I totally agree with you on this @Peterpangirl I think the idea of men and women experiencing sex differently is mostly due to expectations of gender and socialisation and is mostly myth. I get the impression some women have unsatisfying sex in heterosexual relationships because female sexual pleasure is considered secondary and ‘nice girls’ as you say would not be lust filled and physical and are afraid to tell men what they really want. I think a lot of women also have issues with body image (and I’m sure some men too).

I’m glad I have a relationship with a woman when I was a lot younger as I think it made me have higher expectations of sex from then on. Haha

Also, I get the impression from some of the lesbians I’ve met that they might actually be Bi but it’s just easier to identify as lesbian. I’ve even met women who switch between the 2 labels when it suits them. I’ve met some who also enjoyed having sex with men and some who were more biromantic. I don’t think many people are 100% gay or straight. But maybe just my experience.

 

I wanted to pick up on body image issues. These unfortunately exist whether in a hetero or gay relationship. My girlfriend has a couple of things about her body that she would rather hide and can appear uncomfortable or insecure if I look at or pay these parts attention, as if they are not worthy of it. I feel similarly towards other parts of my body. The fact is neither of us are young any more - which means child bearing and age has taken a toll. But of course we are attracted to someone for more diverse reasons than having the perfect body! Dirtyshirt84 - I would second your point about some women feeling they cannot express their desires in heterosexual sex. In my case it wasn't because my ex wouldn't have tried to please me, it was more that I felt very shy with this part of myself in a way I don't with her. I don't know whether this is due to the fact she is a woman or her personality - maybe a bit of of both. But in a same sex relationahip I have felt liberated to be myself in the bedroom as never before. One small plus side of living out my gayness, even if the negatives are many.

 

so, what I see here with the push back you've experienced is Bi-Phobia and Bi-Erasure, both are unacceptable. those of us on the Bi spectrum get that BS from both the straight and queer worlds. and it's rare for things to be 50/50 all he time. my attractions can be quite fluid and what attracts me to a cis man is not what attracts me to a cis woman, or a trans person (trans lady and trans man are different for me too) but we are all people, we are all human and worthy of desire and respect. I'm Pansexual BTW. and really, there enough 'reputations' in all communities under the rainbow for people to stop pointing to our lives, my opinion is that this usually stems from some sort of irrelevant morality on their part or jealousy, to be frank. you do you is a mantra that so many say but don't practice.

 

Though I have never been with a woman, I totally understand what you mean. I think I would have a different kind of relationship with a woman. And it would be just as awesome, but different. I can already tell by the way I react to women flirting with me vs men.

And I have seen many bisexual men describe what you are describing. It makes perfect sense to me.

It doesn't mean you would want to act on it. It's just how you feel in both situations.

 

Nickw, thank you for this thread.

I haven't been here for a long time and just popped back in now. I am a bisexual woman and married to a wonderful man. Things you have said about your feeling towards men and women (well, specifically your wife), I echo. We have similar perspectives and even the experience. I am somewhat the female version of you. I am in a semi-open relationship with my husband. My husband doesn't feel the need to look for another woman because he said that his happiness is complete with me. There was a time in our life when I encouraged our marriage to be open because I couldn't attend to his physical needs (nothing to do with my sexuality) but he didn't do this although he appreciated my willingness for his concern. He didn't do look because he didn't have the need or felt something lacking in him even if we were not having sex. After a while, I became well and we got back again to being physically intimate. We've become closer than ever. Having said this, I am a bisexual and I yearn from time to time for an emotional and physical connection with a woman. The needs that he satisfies on me is different from the needs that only a woman can satisfy. The emotional and physical needs I get from my husband are totally incommensurable from the emotional and physical needs I experience with a woman.

I feel like most of what you've said here including the biphobia or that the "community" doesn't often respect what we bisexuals feel or view. That's why I ceased to attend some LGBT meet up in my area where the members are predominantly gays and lesbians. I don't need my spirit to be hammered by some people who should be more understanding of my sexuality. These days I only choose which ones are accepting of bisexuals. Sadly, there are only two in my area: one is a queer group which is mostly young people (teenagers to late 20's) and the second one is mostly bicurious, bisexuals, closeted transgender or still trying to understand their sexuality (my age group which is later in life) but it's not a very active group.

 

This is how I see it too and I wish more people, men and women, would question all these things, really question the way the mind is influenced by every little bit of input it receives from just being part of a society, immersed in it. It's pretty much proven scientifically that men have, generally speaking, the same basic capacity for empathy, connection, emotion, but like with every ability, if it is not allowed and encouraged to develop it stagnates, unable to properly manifest. By contrast, women are overly encouraged to use those "muscles" while discouraged to use other "muscles". Same when it comes to sex. Because of socialization, it's easier for women to open up, to be vulnerable emotionally with themselves and their partner in a relationship, whether it is sexual or platonic. If it's sexual then that also applies to the sex act, women on average just have that emotional muscle trained better and have not been conditioned to repress their feelings so they have that full experience of intimacy more easily. This capacity is in men as well but it's untapped.

Also, women are perceived as less promiscuous and men are supposed to be super promiscuous, which actually ends up influencing the way most men and women feel their sexual needs and desires, their relationship with their sexuality. Then yes, women are still to this day largely shamed for their desires, shamed if they have casual sex, shamed if they want anything that isn't vanilla and submissive. This shaming is very subtle most of the time in western societies but it's there. On the other hand men are almost pressured to develop their appetite for promiscuity, for emotionless sex. The point is that even in terms of sexuality and sexual desire, likes and dislikes, there is at least to some extent an influence from the norms and expectations society has of your gender. People do in fact "learn" to like or dislike certain things. There's no genetic, biological tendency to like a certain color, to like a certain style of clothing, etc and yet because of gender norms the majority of people end up liking what they were socialized to like.

Many women(and men ofc) know very little about their own sexuality and how to best satisfy it because, yes, it's seen a secondary thing and we're conditioned to believe that women don't have the same potential for pure sexual desire, the same appetite for sex and the same need as men do. That is also proven to be wrong but just like men have to be allowed and encouraged to explore and experience their emotions, women have to be allowed and encouraged to explore their sexuality, their fantasies, their libido.

There's a reason why heterosexual women are the ones who experience the least nr of orgasms, way behind men(of any orientation) and lesbian women.

I'm bisexual but unfortunately I have not been in relationships yet of any kind because I live in Eastern Europe(aka the conservative part of Europe), I'm gender non-conforming/genderqueer and pretty masculine presenting and more on the introverted side. Plus, I have not sorted my sexuality out until the past 2 years or so because being genderqueer in a country that has zero education about gender identities and a society that is quite keen on more traditional gender roles, it occupied most of my thoughts. I'm afraid of telling people that I'm bisexual because with the way I present I feel my sexuality would be discredited, that they'd just assume I'm a lesbian in denial or something since I'm not femme. I don't even know where to look for other queer women tbh(I don't do clubs and there's like 2 gay clubs that mostly cater to gay men and they're pretty small and bad anyway) and there's no real online community that I could find. I'd be afraid a bit of being discredited by lesbians too, I've seen some hatred on online forums and sites, calling bisexual women bihets and bislu*s and the likes.

As for how I feel attraction, there is no big difference for me. I'm not attracted to hyper masculinity or hyper femininity, the people that attract me are generally intellectual, artsy, sensitive types, both in men and women. I could not fall in love with or have a relationship with someone who isn't emotionally aware and able to connect, man or woman. I don't expect men to be tough or women to be fragile, etc. I don't care for gender roles. Sexually as well I feel you can basically do everything you want with both men and women, if you just say it and if they're up for it. I'm very sexual and I'm into trying all sorts of stuff. Oh and btw, slow, basic, gentle sex isn't necessarily lovemaking and vigorous, passionate, carnal, rough-ish sex can be lovemaking too, the connection and emotion isn't there only if you're doing missionary, it's there if it exists between partners.

And if the sex is good and we're compatible and there's love, I can be perfectly satisfied with just the one person, regardless of their gender.

 

This is what it’s all about isn’t it? I agree with so much of what you say. I think people probably don’t even realise the influence that society has had on them.

I see so many men on here taking about having sex with men and being able to imagine a sexual relationship with a man but not an emotional or romantic one. And I see so many women (myself included) talking about an intense emotional connection with women and emotional affairs. I think this is because of the influence of society and the expectations of gender.