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Wanting to learn a new language, but, which one?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by FrogCAT, Dec 9, 2016.

  1. RainbowsFactory

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    Hello! :slight_smile: I can speak fluently English and French, and I have been learning German and Japanese for a few years now. (I've taken classes for German, but Japanese by myself.) I would say that if you want to learn all of those 3 languages, pick the one that is most important for you / the one you like the most. Then, you can start learning the other languages from your choices.

    For Japanese, since I study it by myself, I use many websites that are very useful. Here is a list:

    To start out / get listening material:
    JapanesePod101 - Learn Japanese with Audio & Video Lessons

    Grammar:
    JLPT N5 Grammar List – Japanesetest4you.com

    General Grammar / Pronunciation:
    Complete Guide to Japanese | Learn Japanese

    Vocabulary:
    http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt5/vocab/VocabList.N5.pdf

    Also, try to listen to Japanese music and watch Japanese media. Here are a few Japanese artists that you could like:

    - Perfume
    - Kyary Pamyu Pamyu
    - Morning Musume
    - Koda Kumi
    - °C-ute
    - Aya Matsuura
    - Maki Goto
    - Sakanaction

    Hope that I helped! :grin: Feel free to ask me questions (if you have any) about Japanese or German.
     
  2. Astrocyte

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    In taking European studies I've started resenting the French language. To me it just seems like France has wanted to assert is language globally and to an extent it has succeeded in convincing some people to learn it as a second language for diplomacy. However, it's a language on the decline. I'd argue that Spanish would be far more useful, especially given its geographical spread. A basic look at the statistics would also reveal it is spoken far more widely than French.
     
  3. HappyGirlLucky

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    Tack! :slight_smile: I hope you found it. I think I have some faint memory of an American friend of mine watching it on Netflix last year, but I could very well be wrong. :lol: If you enjoy Welcome to Sweden, you might want to check out Solsidan too. Also Fucking Åmål and Kyss Mig are two of my favorite movies. They are both probably available on Netflix too if you look under their respective English titles, Show Me Love and Kiss Me.

    In my opinion the syntax does not matter so much, it is something which comes naturally after exposing yourself to the new language enough that you start thinking in it instead of translating from another in your head. Besides, people will still understand what it is you are trying to say in most cases, even the German - English example I gave was not too confusing despite being far from syntactically correct English.

    So yes, a mistake may be a mistake, but is that really the end of the world? You are going to make them. A lot. For a very long time. It is just something you have to accept if you want to master any language, or really any skill for that matter. A mistake doesn't make the skill useless, it is just one more step taken on your journey to proficiency.

    This is a bit of a ramble/rant on why the structure does not matter as much as you may think, based on my own personal experience. Feel free to skip to the TL;DR. My point of view is of course biased because I only know the languages I do know, but this has been my experience:

    As someone who has learned both English and German coming from a V2 language (Swedish is my native language), I have to say that German is by far more difficult than English despite sharing the V2 structure with Swedish. The reason for that is of course German's otherwise very complex structure. Also, even though Finnish grammar is much more fluid, it is mainly considered an SVO language just like English, but even so it is not easy at all for an English speaker to pick up. I actually started learning Finnish mostly after I had already learned English, at about the same age as OP, and knowing English with its SVO order did not help at all.

    Also contrary to what one might think, knowing Finnish has actually helped me at least as much when learning German as Swedish has, despite it being an SVO language (technically) and German a V2 one. If I were to translate 1:1 from Swedish to German it would sound just as silly as the English example. Finnish, however, can often be molded into having the exact same structure as German while still being syntactically correct which has helped me understand the German structure better.

    Finally, if you are an advanced or native English speaker you should be familiar with the V2 structure anyway, as sentences using it do exist in English. They often sound dated, pompous or overly formal, but a native speaker should have no trouble thinking in V2 and should be quite familiar with it. I will lazily copy some examples from Wikipedia:

    Those sentences would sound pretty formal in Swedish too if you translated them directly. For example I would say:

    That is a direct 1:1, word-for-word translation between Swedish and English. Both syntactically correct and with no weirdness. The same could be done for all of the above sentences, but this ramble is long enough as is so I will leave it at that. :slight_smile: If you tried to do a 1:1 translation of that sentence to German it would sound absolutely awful.

    TL;DR: In my experience syntax matters a little, but not really that much. You will pick up on it quickly once you start using the language full-time.
    I don't speak much Spanish yet and no French at all, so I don't really know whether they would be easier or not for an English speaker. Spanish would probably be really useful in many places in the US and French likewise in Canada, but that doesn't really matter since she did not even ask about them. I also really think it is much more realistic to learn a language you truly want to learn than trying to learn one just to speak one more. Like you said, it takes years to reach full proficiency and that really requires some serious motivation beyond just wanting to add another language to your list.
     
    #23 HappyGirlLucky, Dec 11, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
  4. mattni

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    You should learn Spanish. I listen to Spanish music all the time and it sounds cool. French is also handy to learn.
     
  5. pinkpanther

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    @HappyGirlLucky If you were right Rinkebysvenska would have had V2 syntax. Instead it discards that for the simpler SVO word order. :slight_smile:
     
  6. HappyGirlLucky

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    If I were right about what? My own experience that English is easier to learn than German? Or that you still understand perfectly well what they are saying when they speak "Rinkebysvenska"? :slight_smile:
     
  7. SabreBear

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    No matter what language you decide to learn it's not going to be particularly easy. You'll need a lot of practice and a lot of dedication. It's not something you can just decide "eh maybe I'll do this" (unless you were genius-level intelligence).

    I wouldn't recommend Eastern Asian languages as your next language to learn. They are beautiful languages but they are extremely different than English and being a native English speaker you might get dissuaded pretty easily.

    Out of the three you mentioned I would go with Swedish. Arguably I don't know Swedish (though I do know how to cuss someone out in Swedish) but it's by far the simplest of the three choices. Germanic grammar is absolutely killer and kanji can be difficult for even natives of Japan. I also know an American who went to Sweden knowing little of their language and now a few years later she's very fluent. From what I hear from her it wasn't all that bad at all.

    That leads me to the point that if you ever get the option go to the country or a place in which your chosen language is spoken and live there for a small amount of time. Isn't definitely isn't feasible for all but it really helps to be surrounded by that language and to have to learn and understand it on the go. I know personally I have gone to Quebec when I want to further my French skills and it does help. (Even though my accent is trash lol.)

    I wish you luck in whatever you decide!
     
  8. FrogCAT

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    Alas, Welcome to Sweden is not on Netflix instant, it is on DVD but I don't live at the house it would be sent to. Same for Show Me Love, and Solsidan isn't on there at all, Kiss Me is available though! One out of four isn't too bad I suppose.
     
  9. pinkpanther

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    I was talking about this.
    Since SVO word order is pretty much the main distinction between standard Swedish and its Rinkeby variant, I'd say that for many many people going from SVO to a V2 syntax is a big fucking deal. It's so big that most of them have no clue what's happening, and the mistakes also don't always go away with practice. This is the reason why for someone going from English to Swedish or German could be a difficult endeavor but not so much for French or Spanish.

    Regarding language mistakes, I think it's okay to do mistakes as long as you're actively studying the language but once you're beyond a certain threshold people judge you every time you make a mistake which can be a problem because they open you up to language discrimination. However, you don't see this as a problem, so maybe we should agree to disagree.
     
  10. HappyGirlLucky

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    A lot of people who speak "Rinkebysvenska" have actually grown up with it and it holds a certain cultural value to those who speak it, so they may be less willing to change the way they speak. I grew up with a different ethnic version of Swedish as well and people take a lot of pride in speaking it and being a part of that culture and ethnic group. It did not have an altered word order though and I have to admit that I have never been anywhere where SVO Swedish is spoken. I had no idea they had trouble actually learning Standard Swedish.

    I only had my own experience to go by and whenever I have learned a new language the syntax has always come naturally to me after a while, no matter the word order. I think perhaps it might be more difficult to change a language you have already learned?

    I think we can agree to disagree to an extent, but to an extent I also agree with you. As I previously mentioned I actually learned Finnish pretty much as a third language and I did live in Finland while I learned it, so I do know what language discrimination feels like. Most people were nice and very accommodating, but it did cause a lot of stress when applying for jobs.
     
    #30 HappyGirlLucky, Dec 11, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016