Yes, and as I stated twice, the second time more explictly in response to critique of the first time, this is to do with my personal comfort zone, not about my political will - on that matter, I have little will in this case. I tend to withhold opinion on matters of which I cannot honestly call myself informed. As I know little of 'police at Pride events' (it's a pretty particular topic after all) I largely withhold comment (preferring to discuss tangent topics).
Banning police from Pride is unfair. Some of them are LGBT themselves, and I heard a lot of them volunteer to be on duty for the parade. Plus there was this cute video of this policeman proposing to his boyfriend at London Pride just one or two weeks ago. And I heard there was another policeman who proposed to his boyfriend at the same pride as well. If the police are there because they're LGBT themselves, or they're allies, than why should they be excluded? They're there to provide security, because regrettably there are still homophobes out there who might take this oppurtunity to be dickheads, so isn't it important that we're protected? Plus it shows that the police accepts LGBT, which can be comforting to some people.
And I can agree with what you said. Sorry if I put words in your mouth, because that's not what I tried to do. And to echo what burai said, I think this may have been a little bit of a misunderstanding. I just think we're being a little too hostile to police officers. I think we really should be trying to understand why the protesters at Toronto Pride wanted demands that included removing police floats, when it seems not only mean to the police, but it is also very counter-productive. That's just how I see it.
Black ASL is a dialect of ASL. The protestors weren't asking for more ASL interpreters, they were specifically demanding more black ASL interpreters. This is a very minor issue to raise in such a manner considering: -The small group affected (black deaf gay pride attendees who primarily speak Black ASL) -The fact that Black ASL and ASL are mutually intelligible anyway. So simply increasing ASL interpreters would benefit - it didn't need to be focussed as a "black issue" I don't think they are valid. I think the over-emphasis on direct-representation holds us back (within the LGBT community and beyond). Its the idea that we have to be around people the same as us, or have "safe spaces" for those the same of us - I don't think that is healthy as I think it discourages integration and inclusion. And it does get even more silly the more specific we get. You wouldn't have a Geordie going to London Pride and demanding Gay Newcastle booths and representation, or an English populace demanding a booth at Tokyo Pride. Its ridiculous. I think if you want to be represented, you have to just crack on and do it yourself. Get involved, march, put yourself out there and say "this is who I am". It has to be organic. At the very least if a group does feel particularly under-represented (which I personally do not get given how incusive and free-for-all Pride as an event is), ask the organizers nicely first. There is no need to go from 0 to sit-in protest like these peeps did. Pride is a protest against genuine oppression from society externally. It is not the time or place for in-fighting and "civil war" over minor issues. It is not the place to attack already inclusive groups who are actually helping. And it is not the place to derail the event for furthering of other agendas. No, I think it is a valid counter to the movement in one regard. Not in it excluding white people, but in that BLM (as well as the usual discussions of POC) are VERY exclusionary of other minority races, to the extent that they pretty much demand all of the attention which isn't helpful. The clues in the name "Black" Live Matter...not Asians, not Native Americans, "Black" specifically. Look at "Oscars so White". It could have actually been a great chance for discussing the massive under-representation (and over-stereotyping) of asian actors in Hollywood movies. Instead black activists and celebrities made it a black specific issue (when statistically black people are fairly well represented at the Oscars).
Wow. This is really dumb. The BLM is good is most cases, but honestly, at this point, they need to realize that the LGBTQ+ community isn't their enemy. Like Kira said, why can't they protest somewhere where racism is a larger issue, say a Trump rally or something along those lines. They are creating an enemy where there is none.
Not Black ASL. Just ASL. Intersectionality matters. This is Toronto, there are over 500 languages spoken in this city. Not having representation at an event like Pride is a problem, and it is important. It was brought up before, in closed meetings and email, so it wasn't "0 to sit-in". Booths that had a place in the past, lost their space, and groups lost representation. Also... Tokyo Pride has several white and foreigner specific booths. And they have a far lower population of white and foreign people compared to Toronto. Racism is genuine oppression. I know we all like to pretend it only exists in America, but it is still an issue in Canada too. As to the "in-fighting", I don't feel that way but I won't argue it, you have a valid point.
And as someone else in the post has already stated, "All Lives Matter" is a response to Black Lives Matter. A very childish, self-centered response at that. Do you go to an AIDS rally and shout "All Diseases Matter?" Do you look at a burning house and say "All Houses Matter?" People have this habit of getting in their feelings when, for once, something doesn't involve them.
If All Lives Mattered why is there homelessness, poverty, death sentences, debt,etc? What about the many animals slaughtered for food? All Lives Matter is a naĂ¯ve statement very few people really live by if at all. That said BLM, may have started out to combat police brutality but that still affects other races too. I believe more white people get shot by cops than any one else which shouldn't be surprising given the population. Again, disrupting PRIDE is just them crying about who's more oppressed imho. Why can't we help each other?
If the movement didn't work with the organisers before the event begun, then their disruption is petty and self-centred. If they did, they still went too far. The rhetoric really matters. Instead of truthfully saying "we don't think this event accommodates black (though I don't see how deafness comes under the ambit of the black lives matter movement) people as much as we would wish", they have more or less said "this event is actively racist and oppressive". The two are very different things. It's deliberately combative and not designed to be productive, as too many protests are. It's designed to be divisive and uses language of combat rather than civil discourse. I'm not particularly comfortable with that militant approach, especially over what at worst was a planning oversight. And the opposition to police presence is ridiculous for three reasons. The first is that the police are there for protection, which all large events like this must have. The second is that fostering a good relationship between the LGBT community and the police as an institution leads to more effective and considerate police and better law and justice outcomes for queer people thanks to an increased trust and perception of approachability. The third is that many police are LGBT or just enjoy a good festival and it's ridiculous to paint them as malicious tools of an oppressive state; that's certainly not the case in Canada and it fruitlessly alienates the police.
MRA's don't consist of only men. The honeybadgerradio on youtube consists of some women such as Karen straughan. This stigma they get of just neckbeards complaining needs to die. Men do face issues such as being on the bad end of child custody, being more likely to get killed, and getting locked up more than women for the same crimes. There is a place for MRA's such as there is a place for feminists don't agree with demonizing either movement as long as they stand for a solid cause. ---------- Post added 6th Jul 2016 at 10:35 AM ---------- I don't even agree with disrupting a Trump rally as many are saying. Listen to what they have to say and then debate them. With problems amongst the legal system, go to the Council? Drill it into lawmakers heads and keep it a relevant topic but the problem being how? ---------- Post added 6th Jul 2016 at 10:41 AM ---------- Well TBF if human existence ended then the universe would still go on. #Ourlivesaren'tthatimportant :roflmao:
This is disgusting, technically we are on the same side, fighting for equal rights, infighting only hurts the cause and gives bigots more ammunition to be bigots, which giving the state of things, is on the rise everywhere.
I was going to say something witty but this post said everything needed to be said. Not worth a serious thought, lol.
Their list of demands also included "A committment to more Black deaf ASL interpreters for the Festival". So yes, it was more tailored towards black ASL. To be honest, even if it was just in relation to ASL, that is almost "co-opting" deaf issues to add weight to their demands and push their own agenda which is wrong. It would be like a radical feminist group throwing in a gay rights issue to make their demands look more legitimate - it is not appropriate if that group is controversial and will drag the other group down. Now I understand the argument of representation in the actual parade, although there is nothing stopping groups congregating, meeting up, setting up group meets etc if they want to find like minds. I'm not seeing it for the booths though. Can we really have a booth for every single demographic, logistically speaking? And is this "necessary". Where do we draw the line? Would we say because there isn't a booth for gay crochet knitters, butch lesbian pastry chefs, or Eurasian asexuals then this is problematic? I'm guessing that there is not a race-specific or country-of-origin specific booth for everyone at Toronto pride. And I'm guessing that there have been plenty of other requests for booths that have been turned down or changed too (i.e. I'm not seeing any evidence of racism or discrimination here as alleged). Was it specifically labelled as a "white booth" though (i.e. specifically in place for white representation at the pride), or was it more for tourists and foreign nationals? If its the latter that is a bit different. Racism is genuine oppression...when it exists, i.e. not in this context. Toronto Pride is not racist, gay pride in general is not racist, and so no these people are not protesting against genuine oppression. Nothing mentioned in their demands constitutes racism or even racial discrimination as BLM are clearly making out. They are simply logistical and planning issues.
Just seen this: Black Lives Matter Toronto Flooded With Hate Mail After Pride Parade Sit-In What a load of bo:***:ks. "Feel sater in Pride"? Are they really that bloody sensitive? How can they claim not to feel safe in one of the most inclusive and protected events going? Exactly, they were falsely portraying the specific event, Pride in general and/or the community as racist and oppressive and taking a unnecessarily aggressive, divisive and militant approach also (shouting loudly and effectively holding the event hostage, threatening to ruin it for everybody if they didn't get their way). At best you can say their actions are peurile, but I would say their actions are reckless (in tainting the overall cause, creating division and causing upset). Again, exactly. Personally I think we should just ban BLM from next years Toronto Pride, just deserts. Firstly we need police at these events anyway. Any mass-participant event needs policing and security (be they concerts, rallies, football matches or whatever), it's common sense. And secondly the presence of police at Pride is important. Historically the police force has facilitated homophobia (and been used as a tool for homophobia). Now (by and large) the police protect us, in tackling hate crime and violence). There presence is a massive indicator of how far we have come and the allies we have. And that is ignoring the fact that there presence celebrates and reminds us of LGBT people in these groups, and showing people that they too can have a successful and happy career in this field.
And now of course that the racists have come out of the "woodwork" and sent them caustic hate mail, they have the reaction they wanted, the fuel to continue to do what they do and claim the LGBT community is racist, and we've effectively gotten nowhere. Such is modern Western life.
I consider the BLM movement to be a radical progressive semi-hate group at it's core, so yes this is an outrage. Kinda like when they trashed my city for no damn reason, and that came out of MY TAXES. A pure outrage; go bother someone else lgbt didn't do a damn thing to them.
Okay, here's the deal - I fully believe that all lives matter. I believe in that PHRASE. I do not follow/belong to any movement. In realizing that all lives matter, we recognize that to many people, minorities (like blacks) don't matter. This is pretty much why I do not partake in movements. Unless there's a movement to make Betty White the supreme ruler of the world, I'm out. If we simply just said "All Lives Matter, treat everyone well, don't be an ass" things might work out. Sadly, it doesn't.