In a rare instance, I actually agree with you here . The protections on freedom of speech prevent this sort of sanction on expression in my country, but in the worst cases I'd be okay with denying select rights to groups that are proven to be destructive.
While someone is in prison, I would say a resounding "NO." Felons have broken the social contract and by doing so no longer are entitled to those privileges. Once time is served, I believe that the person should have their rights restored.
I think that itself touches upon just how difficult the political discourse on this issue really is. On the one hand, democracy should be open to all in order to be truly representative of its populace. On the other hand, the categorisation of people who undermine that - of which people draw a whole range of arbitrary moral lines - creates an entire clusterfuck surrounding accessibility. For what it's worth, I absolutely agree with you. What interested me, however, was the 'othering' of similar thoughts of rationale that people take when being a bit more broad on that approach, which you appeared to disapprove of. For example, I've heard people argue a murderer undermines democracy by taking away an individual's capacity to vote; therefore, they should not be allowed to vote due to that undermining and stripping of civil rights through their own actions. In that regard, their political existence isn't aiming to undermine democracy, but somebody could (and do) take your thought process and apply it to their social existence, and reach the same conclusions that you do for the political motivations of neo-nazis etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not remotely suggesting you're wrong. I'm purely playing devils advocate, mostly out of a desire to hear your thoughts on it. I'm also rather tactlessly keeping my own opinions close to my chest, which doesn't help my prodding. The reason I chose to single out those comments was primarily due to a broader concern on how extremist views tend to manifest themselves within practical applications. It's one thing to look at a sample of people in a prison setting, but how would such a setup adapt itself into broader society, such as those who engage on the community StormFront? In my experience, those with extremist views who have the potential to do genuine damage to democracy are very much hidden to begin with, so we sort of set ourselves up for failure by trying to chase an ideology via voting eligibility within one singular institution. The genuine threat to contemporary democracy doesn't come from those who display their beliefs through expressions, but from those who use their voice solely in the booth. However, the moment we start trying to target particular groups (whether it be in a prison setting or beyond), there's always going to be people behind us who will use our same perspective but attempt to apply it a bit more broadly. Arguably, if genuine and accessible democracy is to work, you need to trust the populace at large to keep it in check, rather than attempting to socially engineer it to keep out factions who are insidious with their agenda, given the opportunity. After all, if the majority vote that way, are we a terrorist or freedom fighter for denying them that representation?* *This post suddenly took a V for Vendetta type turn.
1. The United States is a democratic republic. 2. Half of all incarcerated people are in jail for nonviolent drug offenses.
I never said anything about drug offenses. Look at my post a few above that one. Violent felony criminals should never be allowed to vote again. Smoking or selling Mary Jane is not the same as dealing meth or killing/raping someone. I don't think all criminals should be barred from voting, especially not misdemeanors or nonviolent felonies.
I have several opinions. On the one hand, I do sometimes feel like throwing the book at people; on the other, I also feel we should be compassionate and understand that incarceration should be rehabilitative in nature. So, I do feel that only people who are presently convicted and serving time incarcerated should be denied suffrage. After that, and during probation, I feel voting rights should be restored. Not all civil rights/privileges should be reinstated, like gun ownership. That said, I feel we should be compassionate and fair and let former convicts vote. If anyone disagrees, I would point out that perhaps we should see the double standard corporations get. Sometimes, a corporation will be sued and have to "settle" with the Justice Dept. or other government entity. They've been "naughty" at an institutional level and, oftentimes, no single person can be blamed. Should we not also deny the corporation its rights to free speech/quasi-suffrage by maybe also imposing a ban for x amount of time on how long they aren't permitted from lobbying members of the legislature? Maybe that will really make a fine stick: "here's your bill, oh, and you can't lobby members of congress or you'll be in contempt of court, with additional civil/criminal liabilities." Just a thought; I know it's sort of apples and oranges.
Well, I can see your point. While I don't believe in silencing the voices of others, murderers are despicable...
It depends, but I think it also depends for everyone. I think everyone should have at least some understanding of the political system.
There's almost always grey areas in moral issues. No, I wouldn't consider someone who killed for self-defense despicable at all.
Not to mention people who were falsely imprisoned. There's too much gray for us to be able to decide who gets what, so I don't think these people should vote, those shouldn't.
I believe that everyone should have the right to vote. When we take away the basic human rights of individuals because we believe they have committed crimes we should be careful to do so only to the extent that it protects the general public from having their safety impinged upon, and I do not believe that allowing prisoners to vote (I'm going to use the term prisoner here because we don't have the concept of a felon here in the UK) poses a substantial risk to others, because these people make up such a small portion of our society. I think that representatives of prisoners could have an important role to play in arguing for the rights of prisoners. Remember that, however difficult it sometimes is to imagine, particularly in the cases of the most violent crimes, prisoners are fundamentally human like the rest of us. Most people can move on to performing a valuable role in society after serving a term in prison, and in order to facilitate this we ought to enfranchise rather than disenfranchise them in our democracy. This is a controversial issue here in the UK where we currently have the Conservative party talking about amending the jurisdiction of the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights) in the UK, and they are using the emotive issue of prisoners' voting rights as a reason for doing so. I just believe that the ECHR are going in the right direction on this, and that to leave their jurisdiction would be a dangerous move on the part of the UK. We must remember that one of the only positive changes to the world we have seen as a result of WW2 is this supragovernmental organisation which can enforce human rights law, and in Europe I believe it provides a vital means of protecting all of us from human rights breaches. I am sorry that I went off on a tangent there about ECHR.
Im going to say no because someone who breaks the law should not get a say in who the next governemnt should be. Taking away the right to vote is another punishment someone should get for breaking the law and if they want to vote then they shouldnt break the law in the first place. Being able to vote is a privelage that only the law abiding should have. I hope the UK government doesnt give prisoners this right as by doing so they are getting soft. More punishment means a higher chance of prevention.
It's not like they ever did anything wrong to deserve having their civil rights and liberties taken away. Oh wait...
Yeah, dangerous and evil people like Martha Stewart shouldn't have a say in government! I don't understand why some people want to forgive these monsters for a singular action committed earlier in their lives. Any event that results in the title of felon strips that person of their humanity and we should give up on them. It's not like there could be a series of events that could lead us to making such a dire mistake if we were in their place. Right is right; and wrong is wrong; and if a man cannot distinguish them properly, he is either a fool or rascal: that's all.
Prisons are for punishment and revenge they have it too soft as it is!! Doesn't matter about rehabilitation or universal rights or that it undermines the principle of democracy or that many prisoners are in jail for non violent offences or the cruelty of being jailed for 3 months which happen to cover the election date or anything else no no no As if prisoners are going to vote as a bloc and sway the result either way anyway why do people give a fuck. Oh yeah imprisoning people is about revenge how cultured!
I don't know.. I mean they committed a crime and got caught. There's also the one's which are many who commits crimes that doesn't get caught and probably do vote.