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Being trans without dysphoria?

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by LonestarConnie, Jun 26, 2014.

  1. LonestarConnie

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    What does everyone here think? Do you need dysphoria to be transgendered?

    I think we are all trans no matter what gets us to that point.

    I also think what ever you truly believe yourself to be, you are.

    And if transition is right for someone who doesn't have dysphoria, more power to them.

    I am interested to hear the conversation.

    Best,

    Connie
     
  2. Nychthemeron

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    Yes. You do.

    Not body dysphoria, but gender dysphoria. Otherwise, what the hell makes you trans?

    As long as you identity with someone that isn't your birth gender and actually feel upset about it, then you're trans.
     
  3. Acm

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    I think you need at least SOME kind of dysphoria because otherwise why would you call yourself trans? (Physical and/or social counts)
     
  4. suninthesky

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    I actually disagree with Nychthemeron. Well, partly.

    I understand how it seems that dysphoria is so common is could practically be a requirement for being trans, but it really isn't.

    Trans is huge umbrella term. It includes (for example) genderfluid. A person could have dyphoria one day, and not the next. And even someone that considers themselves trans, but binary, might not have physically dysphoria. (It could be argued that they still might have social dysphoria.)

    Sorry to say this so bluntly, but I don't think there should be a conversation to be had. If someone is trans, they're trans. No one needs to question their dysphoria status any more than the arrangement of their personal parts. It doesn't feel right to me to question someone's identity for any reason, because it is their identity, period.

    (I do think though, that having a conversation about the fact that there possibly shouldn't be a discussion about something is a valid conversation, so thanks for bringing this up.)
     
  5. Ruthven

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    agreed with Nychthemeron.

    but it's like...if you don't have physical dysphoria why would you take hormones and/or have surgery? that makes no sense at all.

    and really that most likely will open the door to actual dysphoria and detransitoning.

    and honestly, i find people goin around sayin they're trans and havin no dysphoria to be offensive. like it or not, this is a physical medical condition, it's not a game of identity or whatever.
     
  6. Just Jess

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    This really depends on what you mean by "to be transgendered".

    To adopt the term? Absolutely not! The transgender umbrella is big enough for all of us :slight_smile:

    To do things that were medically necessary for me? Hear me out, but I honestly feel yes. I know what being on testosterone constantly, and estrogen constantly, are like for me firsthand. The endocrine system and sex hormones are powerful things. Much more powerful than anyone gives them credit when it comes to the way your brain works. Someone who, say, simply wanted a more feminine build, or maybe a little bit of help from mother nature cross dressing, would likely be miserable with my solution.

    I'm basing that not just on direct personal experience, but about the way a lot of men talk about a lot of things. Testosterone affects a lot of things inside and outside of a person. I would describe my sex drive, my emotions, my increasingly feminine build - which has included a little loss in lifting power but I am still fit as far as calisthenics and burning fat which is all I was really scared of - and yes even subtle changes in my sexuality - I still like pretty much the same people, but things that were boring chores that made me feel a little bad about myself before are pretty much impossible now - the list goes on and on.

    But you see I would describe a lot of these in positive terms. Fulfilling sex with another person is actually possible, like, at all now. My emotions are closer to the surface and more real, and something I work with instead of constantly fight. I'm not acting all the time; there are a lot of gender stereotypes that are pure BS, but a lot that are (still mostly BS but) exaggerations on mother nature, and my nature being different has always worked against me. I think everyone deals with some parts of gender roles that are unnatural or don't make sense, they are stupid and don't fit anyone, but with me it was most of them and I always feel really alien when other people talk about personal experiences or things that "everyone does" or "everyone thinks". Those parts of my body that have caused me so much distress are smaller and more out of the way.

    And... I guess I shouldn't tiptoe around this particular bush. Although the language kind of sucks for me to use from a painful reminder standpoint, I think it's important to say this this way.

    I am honestly looking forward to the day when my hormone medicine chemically castrates me.

    Like I said. The way men talk about things like that, you would think it was the worst thing that could happen to a person. Me, it means a source of constant hopelessness and despair being corrected with modern medicine. I can't really say I understand the way men feel about their genitals, but I know about it and can respect it.

    So... what I'm getting at is that a lot of people without the exact same kind of mismatch I have - they may still have needs that living a "normal" completely straight life just won't meet, and some of their needs and some of mine might overlap - but... you know, slowly becoming weaker, more emotional, losing your... ugh... manhood completely, not wanting to have sex most of the time -

    and an even bigger one, being seen as queer 100% of the time; I don't pass as a straight male any more no matter how hard I try, not saying I always pass as female either. Even that though, you know, more natural for me. It's screwed up that society does this, I hate it and feel really bad for some people because it is totally unfair, but society does just plain treat gay men more like women, which works to my benefit when they assume a gay man is what I am. No matter what I do, I socialize and am socialized with more like a woman every day.

    What I'm saying is, the wrong person doing what I have done, would feel a lot more like a female-to-male transitioner. They would feel more and more alien in their own bodies. And most importantly, they would slowly develop that gnawing sense of despair that is slowly becoming a memory for me.

    And I said all that because the way people toss words around and mean different things by them, I want to say no. If transgender means someone exactly like me, then that's not what you are if you don't have dysphoria. If you don't have dysphoria, you aren't exactly like me. You have hard problems to deal with maybe, but they aren't my problems, and my problems aren't your problems.

    But yes. If you use the word transgender the way I use the word, then you absolutely can be transgender and not have dysphoria.
     
  7. tone

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    I don't really understand how you could be trans without some dysphoria, be it physical or social. If anyone does consider themselves trans without dysphoria, I would still acknowledge their identity and be supportive and whatnot, I just don't understand how that would happen.

    Personally the only reason I am trans is dysphoria, I went through a long phase of trying to convince myself I was a cis female because being trans wasn't an easy thing to accept. Eventually I decided to accept that I was trans because I couldn't deal with denying myself and feeling wrong in my body.

    I can't imagine that someone who didn't have dysphoria at all would want to identify as trans. For me it's almost like someone saying they're gay but not having any attracting to the same sex. Why would you want to identify as something that brings so many challenges if it isn't necessary?

    That's just my personal opinion, if anyone does identify as trans and not have dysphoria, I'm completely fine with that and will accept you, I just don't understand.
     
  8. Nychthemeron

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    I didn't mean it 24/7. I don't have it all the time, but if they have it and they identify with anything other than their birth gender, then I think they'll be trans.

    But if they never experience gender dysphoria, or only very rarely, and identify with their birth gender, then they aren't trans.
     
  9. Fallingdown7

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    I don't think all trans people have physical dysphoria, but there is a general discomfort with their biological sex in some way, even if It's not body dysphoria and just social.

    Who knows, maybe it can go both ways. Even cis people can feel uncomfortable with their gender for various reasons, but they still identify with it which makes them cis.
     
  10. birdking

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    Agree with Nychthemeron. I think all trans people have SOME form of dysphoria, otherwise why would they put themselves through all this? It's so difficult to be trans, whether you have lots of dysphoria or a tiny bit of dysphoria.
     
  11. FireSmoke

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    You need dyshoria to be trans*. Otherwise you can be non-binary.
     
  12. Nick07

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    This is a strange discussion. I may not be an expert, but if it is true that gender is in your head, how can you tell what is in other people's heads and say they are not trans?
     
  13. looking for me

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    interesting point of view and probably bang on.

    i won't speak for anyone else but this is how i view the OP. if sexuality is a spectrum then we can think of gender as a spectrum as well not as a binary (mtf or ftm) this excludes people like cross dressers, two spirit people, etc. i tend to think that if a person is born into the wrong gender, as assigned at birth, then they are transsexual. that is a part of transgender and the gender spectrum but for those who feel a strong part of them is different than the gender assigned at birth but they feel that the assigned gender is OK for them then there probably no dysphoria just a feeling of being in touch with their other self.

    i was assigned male at birth, i popped out there's the willie he's a boy. im ok with that, i also like to dress in ladies clothing on occasion, it feels normal to me as does men's clothing. i have no desire to under go transition or gender reassignment, i just like bringing her out when i get the chance. i would love to have a partner who accepts me for him and her in one package.

    in short "trans" is an umbrella term like Bi which includes people who identify as bi, pan, etc. trans covers people who are in the wrong body, people who like to take on the clothing and sometimes the mannerisms of another gender and all of the wonderful parts of this rainbow.

    does that make any sense?
     
  14. Nychthemeron

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    You can't. I'm sure there are people out there who don't fit my personal definition of trans, but still identify with trans.

    Am I okay with that?

    Well, it doesn't matter if I'm okay with that. Honestly, it's only going to hurt themselves if they call themselves trans. But if they want to, fine. Like you said, we're not going to know anyway.

    I don't consider crossdressers, drag queens, etc. as trans unless they identify with something other than their birth gender. Crossdressers, drag queens, etc. can be trans, but not all of them are.

    Although, I have a feeling I should change that view...
     
    #14 Nychthemeron, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
  15. Nychthemeron

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    Actually, let me add on to that.

    I don't consider cross dressers, drag queens, etc. as transgender unless they identify with something other than their birth gender, but I do consider them trans.

    Does that make sense?

    Like looking for me said, 'trans' is just a big ole umbrella term, which does include cross dressers, drag queens, etc.

    So I take my initial answer back.

    You do not have to have gender dysphoria to be trans - you have to have gender dysphoria to be transgender.
     
  16. Techno Kid

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    Buddy social dysphoria can be a reason to transition too. :eusa_naug
     
  17. Hexagon

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    Believe it or not, constant emotional agony is not a prerequisite for transition.
     
  18. Ruthven

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    just social dysphoria? really? if you have no issues with your sex characteristics, then why would you take hormones and/or get surgery?

    are people really gonna undergo physical transition becuz of other people? that makes no sense.

    hmmm i didn't see anyone sayin constant emotional agony is needed for transition. all i'm sayin is that it doesn't make sense to take hormones and/or surgeries when you have no dysphoria over your sex characteristics.


    soo let's just break it down a bit. transgender/transsexual basically means there's a mismatch with our brains and bodies. the brain is mapped out to expect certain sex characteristics basically, and it doesn't recognise parts and feels its missing parts.

    and that's dysphoria, and that's all it is. different degrees and fluctuations whatever, but you at least have some dysphoria.

    and if you don't have any of it, what makes you think it's a good idea to physically transition?
     
  19. Nychthemeron

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    It may make no sense to you, but for others, it is.

    They may be alright with their body, but what's the point if everyone else keeps misgendering them? As of right now, I don't really think there's a way to pass without surgery and/or HRT, unless you were born masculine, feminine, or androgynous, the way you want it.

    I have the "fuck what others think" mentality, but I still get affected by society. It's not too different for others.
     
  20. Daydreamer1

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    Yes, I think you need to have some form of dysphoria to get the diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria--and by that, going by the guidelines of two years or more of feeling out of place with ones assigned gender(or however the phrasing went).

    If you have no dysphoria, how does one qualify as being trans. Even if someone has extremely mild dysphoria that comes in short bursts, it's still present---but no dysphoria at all? No way. I'm not saying you have to hate yourself or be in a 24/7/365 state, but at least having SOME amount of dysphoria. None at all is just mind boggling.

    I don't like people taking the term or putting dibs on being trans "to be cool" or without actually having something that would put them in the boat of qualifying, since it's mainly those people who end up suing the doctor that gave them HRT and the clinic because they lied or fucked up without taking the risks seriously. It's like going around saying you have an anxiety disorder without ever actually experiencing the symptoms (or at least one)--it makes no sense.

    Besides, why would anyone put themselves through the stress, turmoil, and pain that comes with transitioning if they weren't trans to begin with?