The BIG Married and Gay thread..

Needs some body work, two owners, driven only on Sundays, barely used, could do with some highway driving, looking for someone who'll treat me with care.

:icon_bigg

 

Looks are great...This was a conversation some straight buddies and I have often had...But who'd be fun to have in bed...surely Looks are important...but you've got to laugh, talk, and maybe open a bit of fantasy...my pick was Bette Midler...I should have picked up on that clue shouldn't I...it any event, I don't now if that holds true for men...Clooney being an exception, great sense of humor, doesn't seem to take himself too seriously...Nick Frost, Kevin Smith, Kevin James...regardless of the "bearlike" nature of these guys they seem like they'd be fun to hang with...smart, funny, willing to tip a pint or two with you...that's why I like 'em...it's no size as much as attitude..like terriers... short works as well or me...perfection takes too much to maintain...I'm not in that business anymore...Good and Kind are what I want and need more than anything...if Colin Farrell were find his way into my bed be assured I'd turn him everywhichway but out...I'm not stupid.

 

Ah, Colin Farrell... Now there's another fantasy!

 

fortee in twelve days..
expecting to go utterley meeentaaal! rave rave, pleeease...
geared up for it at a friends 40th just this weekend - it was great - my wife and ii dragged our kids (i have several, and still young) round the shop, spend a load on makup and hope to glam me up - she did a beautiful job, just eyes, and cheek bones, no lips, but wow, i was a pretty sight i tell you! felt amazing -
I got real nervous so we had the brainwave of adding a bowie zigzzag - makes it more acceptable, as it was a family do after all.
Oh, I cut a Mohawk, and spray top blue, sides red, wheewiee, so we arrived, and ziggy landed.. so so scary, but once in the door and talking to people, all great. felt great.
so, all good, but I was a little edgy, which came out a little later - many sc+tequila shots, and doing nutty things like pints of whiskey, gin and tequila mixers..
so, yes it got messy, - ended up me leaving "your all a bunch of wa***s" etc, - im never normally like this -
wife had to chase after me in the car, with the kids, drag me home, get home (1am) wake up the neighbourhood (ok, i have the loudest scoobie in nwales/grinn -sadly not the fastest, but is ok) im there screaming all sorts of sh1t, "you bitch**S are all the same, " giving ti full lungs.. sheesh so ashaming
anyhow, it went on till 430, when i crashed, but not until after lots of tears, me yelling for ages // omg.
so trashed the house a bit, lost a few not friends, made a few more enemies, and pissed the neighbours all right off! ha ha.. lol. they hear it all the time anyhow - the last 3 years has been a hard hard time acceptance not easy in my case - hence the 4, yes 4 mkkids.. and all the responsability, the stress, I cant do this, m how can i do this, and then freeakign out and she asking and askig whats wrong, and i tell her, i think im gay, always have been - just been trying to push it away and ignore.
I have a full long tale to tell you all, ill save that.
So, sunday, a hard day, me apologising to quite a few people, they all ok about it, and sorta expected it also.
came out to my sister, and a neighbour (that makes 5).
Ha - I refused to wash the hair or makeup, still on now...
also, had broken the multifule heater which does all our water out here in the sticks, so a cold day and night - fixed it tonight, tough gruff me got himself together and hacksawed up the side of my old pc and replaced the glass in the door, so that the flimsy whimsical me can enjoy warmth and water again, not to mention the resat of us and all my commitments.. after returning from a busy day in the office - wait, office you way? yep your dam right baby, went in to the office with painted hair and makeup on - this is a first for me - wow.. I could not wash it off, i just lookjed so great, and pretty eyes, i could not wait to see my co workers - and one in particular...
ha ha, wow it was excelent - totally great day - had some good laughs, some compliments (a few on sat also) and some bemused and embarrased faces - excelent like to keep them thinking...
the gay jokes were not to be seen today - think they did not knwo what to think! ha ha.
sorry guys.
managed to have a conversation wiht the guy, he approached me and asked me directly about my makup, why did i not was h it off - i explained i liked it.. which they liked
was going to but decided better not to go as far as asking him for lunch, some times soon though.. i hope - but dont want dissapointment.. happy to keep the dream alive for a bit..
so managed to keep all happy, which is good. I didnt lose the plot, didnt leave, but stuck it out.
A little concerned that this undermines my proffesional standing and statuys - but what the fuk, if it does, then pisss off ill go elsewhere.. hmm, not many good jobs nearby though, and this is already 26 miles each way..
gutting ly have tossed my phone, and lost everything on it, inc loads of glorious selfs form the wekeend.. not to mention xmass and the last two kids birthdays.. omg, how can i let myself have this and keep my family together? (is it even possible??)
so, quite scared, and worried needless to say, but confident also - i know i can be beautifull, and pretty if i like now.
decision about tomorrow - do i wash it off...
2 weeks to go - wwill be out to several more people by then - or will have gone wrong and retreated (NOOO)
all day long, "be yourself" i repeat quite often, today a lot.
I want it all, - what a song...
hello to everyone, have a nice day guys and gals.
confused still.. (always will be until i do it - she has said i can try it if it presents itself, and she might be ok, but not a bf though - im scared to do so as it may be the end of us as we know it, i very much doubt i will change my decision..)
always been gay i recon, always paranoid about it also.. hard in the hills, small communities etc.. will post more history randomly when i can (no phone now, so cant post in the day) -
So great to see other people in similar predicaments ! (we should meetup!lol)
t-12 days

 

Just a couple questions (from someone just curious)...

Early in your relationship (say, first three years), were you happy, neutral, sad? Did you go about your day with a smile, enjoying your work ect. or did you put up a front? Were you legitimately confused or did you know deep down about your stronger desire...?

How did you and your opposite-sex marriage partner meet? How did you hit it off? Did you go on dates, what were the dates like? Did you feel guilty at all about the deception...?

I guess that's more than a couple. I have a million questions I'm curious about!

 

Hi,

First three years is the honeymoon and everything is fresh and new. You only have hope things will work. My wife was best female friend I ever had. I was marrie 21 years and we never had an argument. I thought I was happy.

There was no grand conscious conspiracy. For me it was hoping "good friend" would turn into "passionate lover".

We met at work. We worked closely. At end of day after working late we shared a meal often. We were friends.

Tom

 

who me? - ill tell you anyhow..
activley hated all wimmen in late teens, as abandoned, parents spit at 15, i lived with dad, he diagnosed withe the big C after 6 months, I hated her totally, she cheated on him and ran out on us... (so how can i possibly do the same now,, omg)
we had a caraven we rented out to another broken family, a mum and several kids, they became good friends at the time ( i was still in school), so i went to live with them after dad died at 17 (mom cam back and took the fin house of course, i left and went homless). - they all fooked off a few months later to live abroad, so i was doubly abandoned, went badly down hill after that, self harm, attempted ending it all that, lots of drugs, until quite unstable... anyhow, so messed up late teens, ok, and oh yes, never lost virginity till 21.. yikes.
had nightmare puberty, some hetro thoughst, but mostly gay, loved it, but ended up parceling it up, promised that bit of myself, "hid there till your thirty", as no way possible to come out as gay, I woudl oloose all my friends, and they were all i had and no family, so only friends was all i had.
so, the night i lost my virginity ( to a girl by the way) I didnt want to do it, I wanted to tell my best mate that every night i though of him ( we used to hang out and do drugs), but he was standing in front of me, "go on man, youl love it, shes waiting for you", so iff i go , off me head, she takes my hand, and takes me of somehwere quiet - (i had not met here before, but she knew me from afar, and had been longing for me),so she takes me sucks it, wow.
so we end up seeing eachother for a while..
then i stop it, as got urges for anouther girl - eek, trying to redefine myself as totally not gay atall, stop doing my hair a few years back etc, paraniod to the max, totall headfuk life, so time passes, i ended up gettin together wiht this other girl, (turns out she seduced me in the end though) - i had had a mad time, face paralysis for six weeks, which i managed to cure wiht a bug blob of lsd after 6 weeks... whata trip..
the girtl was trippy also, she had been dreaming of having my kid etc, so no protection sex. takes like 3 times and she preggers - im 23 at this time, in a mess, nearly went down on several blokes, but had managed to stop myself at the last minute, lost lost lost, spiraling down the drain, no shoes (literally) , no job, no life... quite a spiritual chap. so she teslls me she is pregnant! whwo the releiv, im goign to be a parent and carry on out line (im the last male) so fucked up as it is we have the child - fbrilliant, best thing ever, what a dude. we split up a 8 months late,r she always complained sex was stressfull wiht me, I ues to fantasize I was a lesbian, turned me on big time, then i could do the bizz)
so I sort myself out, clean up, train get job, compute programming, (i have an excelent brain which survived, well enought of it to work anyhow) so i move 200 miles away, good opertunerty for gay expolration , as well as work, but naver managed to find th etime, workign like a mental head all thew time, and driving 650 miles a week to get back to look after the lad, whilst she went out shagging.. strissfull shit - and all the time the posability we might get together, im sleepign in her house each weekend on th esofa for a year...
fast forward 7 years..... I moved cities twice, but still drove all that way each weekend, every weekend to look after him.. so finally move back closer, he is now living in my house, 7days a week, no space ever, so I just smoke pot a lot and play co,putergames and do the dad thing all the itme, sacrificed my life to do this.
then the first girl drifted back, she was a nice person, trusting, kind and considerate, not like the nasty ex, even though I was quite sure I was gay, as I knew i was, I thought I could control it, and it was only getting worse (my gay desires and attractions) as I had not had sex in like 7 years now... So we got together - the first mornign, I reached my hands round her waist to find the manhood, and it was not there, omg, nooo, im not wih a man, I cry tears, she asks why, I lie.
so, over the next weeks, I have to decide, to continue or not, and I deicide that I would continue, but have to never let here down, ever, have already done that in the past (im her tru love it turns out, and already messed her about a decade previous)
and that as i had successfully not gone totaly gay yet, then i could manage it a bit longer.....and my life was pretty crap, no one to share it with..
so we mov ein together, she wants kids, balls... ok, so a kid, no sex, she hassling all the time, sex like 1ce every 3 months, course it happens again, wtf!
ok, so now never vaginal ever since.. except a year or two late,r and wtbf!!! another!!!!!
so no i have 4 kids, and will never be able to wait for them to grow up and leave, and my promised self starts to kick off again -
she been workign on me a few yeasr now, trying to work out wtf im about, and then one night i expode, trash me shit up, and she sits me adown and asks me wthell it is, i tell her, .. even though she like 2 months in .., and 3 after our wedding... (yes decided had to honour our live, and family bonding with marrige)
so out to her for 2.5 years now, and we have spoken about it a lot of course, and she thinks (she says, or could it be a reverse trick?) im toatly gay, but that our love is strong enough to hold us together.
I am not so sure... and am outing myself even so I have the lives of so many of us on the lines, its horrible....
so here we are today... thats a little titbit of my history.
Oh yes, a bit more, fsakes, yes, i got me best mate as best man, even though all this time i wanted him, i just hoped that's just the pot taliking (big smoker)
so now no way will he go wiht me, even if he is, which he might be (his hot bro is, but is out of bounds as its his younger bro, mid twenties now) - aarg.
So Im out to him, my wife, my sister, and my mum, who i do speak to now (started to talk after the first kid being born), anothe rmate, and the neighbour (i freaked out this wekeend and trashed the house a bit pissed and had to explain, oh and all the makup! lol, this weekend went to family do glammed up... my first time ever, felt beautifull, still got the makeup on now, some of it, and have been to work two days wiht makup on - wow hot sh1t, and im getiting some interesting talking going on and attention, from my office crush! wow - it might happen any day.....
Wofe has said that she wants me to be happy, and to find myself, bles sher, she loves me so much, as do i her (but not sexually, but she damed good, so...every few weeks we have encounters, but only ever anal for the last 3 years..
she does me, i do her...
hmm, need to get out, out out, let me out.... im right, im the one, trust me, trust yourself, get out, aaaarrrgggg. bang bang crash etc etc.. stupid fek am i.

all this has taken like an hour to write, whcih is ok, as im insomiacal also, get like 3 or 4 hours sleep on avarage, making up with the occasional 8 hourer.
neither of us has had an undisturbed nights sleep for 8 years now, as of all the kids everywhere......
meeentaaaallllll - and im so worried what ill do, and how it l harm all my great kids (4 boys) and her, and me, will i hate myself even more for breaking all this? or will i accept my actions, and not take it out on myself??
I consider myself at risk, but dont worry, im strong, wont do anything awful.
not like ranting in the street at 4:30 am, "im right, im right, fuk all you bitches, I'm fuking right, fuc you all, , im right, im right, from now on its my way " yak yak yak..
sheesh... chill dude....
So would live to have a sex change still, but don't think that's a sensible course of action, unless i had enough money.. hmm.
so gay today, but still not experienced!!! aarg...she has said i can do it, and we will have to deal with the aftermath, so im getting there slowley.
don't think she means it though, and i recon she will breakdown if i did do it....
so might go for threesome instead, or hire a man for the night or something, - I don't want that though, i want a relationship, and not sure if I want my first gay sex with my wife in the room....
mental deadling of 12 days form today... my 40th birthday - so only a decade late i guess.
might announce it to the workd -
oh met some of her family tonight, wiht makeup on, they were, suprised, ha ha.
lets see how this goes.....

oh, and to answer the question, I was always hiding half of myself (i feel) altough was very willing to try my best.
With kids about it changes everyting (never not had kids it feels like, itl be 27 years of school journeys by the time I'm finished here..)
Away form her and the kids, I'm very gay, but hide it away when home as cant really function otherwise , and really trying not to fek up all their lives ...
eldest is 17 now, but thankfully, at his mums during week, here weekend, the rest are youNger, 1, 5, 7.
I have fucked p my life a bit, but i sure as hell cant live wihtmyself i i fuck it for my kids... with then might just have to leave...
I did plott to run away, fake a drowning or somehting and leave forever, but go live elsewhere, , but thats no bloody good. - have moved past that now and decided to come out to the world, kids and all.(well lets see,iif i do anyting or just waffle waffle waffle - oh an no, i am clean clean clean, hence having the nerve to face myself)
tc lovies

 

I, Claudius, - Great program and book!

Hey all, I'm new to the forums here. I wrote a very brief intro a couple of days ago. Need to get to work this morning but will post more soon. I appreciate what I am reading here.

 

Welcome aboard alf55! Glad you could join us, and look forward to hearing more from you.

:smilewave:thewave::thewave:

 

Married twice (20 years total),divorced from both, son now 32 and daughter now 30 from first, was constantly looking for something missing from life, string of affairs that went nowhere and finally found what I was looking for. Found a very loving, kind man that showed me what I have been missing. I am feeling sooooo free finally. Wonder why it took so long?

 

A question for the curious: can the best of straight couples ask for anything different from or better than this?

Can we agree that it is *perfectly* reasonable, even *expected*, that people would end up in these sorts of situations? It comes of having a society with strongly enforced default assumptions of heterosexuality, strongly enforced default assumptions of intent to marry, and insufficient willingness to discuss the possibility of homosexuality with children (hem, hem, Russia!).

How many of you had parents who would say "some day, when you're married [and have kids]"?

How many of you had parents who advised "before you marry, you want to think carefully about whether you're attracted to the opposite sex *at all*"?

Nope, we want (as a society) to hide our heads in the sand, and then get all outraged when we find that gay people are married to straight people.

Ok, you gay parents out there...do *you* make default assumptions that *your* kids will be married some day...and use language with them that implies that this expectation is there? Do *you* plan to ask them to consider whether they are attracted to the sex of the people they are expected to marry?

 

BiAnnika,

That is so true!! When I was young, I never ask myself if I would like to have kids.. It was kind defacto, all "normal" man get married and have kid(s)!

With my kid, we really try to not make those assumptions and to let things as open as possible. We already have a lot of discussion about the importance to accept those that are different and this year we introduced the fact that for some people the sexual identity takes a lot of time to be defined and one may need to do different testing to find himself. They are still young (10,12,13,15), but they seem to understand and I really hope that those discussion will help them to understand me, when I will be ready to come out to them!

 

Well, both of my kids are avid same-sex marriage supporters, even though only the older one knows I'm gay, so I guess I did my job at least in that respect.

I have generally tried not to push marriage and kids, but I think my Catholic programming for that has seeped into their psyches somewhat. I've even suggested directly that marriage and kids weren't for everyone and they shouldn't do it unless they were completely sure, but it still seems very firmly on their radar.

My youngest has many sketches of her dream wedding dress and numerous plans for what it will be like when she and the class hottie of the month (or week or day) get married. That seems much less about the relationship than it does about the presentation, though! My oldest is more non-traditional and talks about a nice quiet beach wedding, "...assuming I ever get a boyfriend, since my little sister seems to be CLAIMING all of the guys!" Both seem to want a combination of their own biological kids and a few adopted from a third world country. I even pointed out that both my sisters kept our family name, and they were welcome to, but both said they'd feel weird not taking their husband's name. (Not a tradition that I'm fond of. If I end up married to some guy at some time in the distant future, he'd better not assume that I'm giving up the name I've had since 1961, although I'd certainly be willing to add it in somewhere if it's not some gigantic horrific thing. A lot of Polish immigrants in my part of the world, and for the life of me, I don't know what those people have against vowels.)

I should also add that both girls are enthusiastically straight, and when I told my oldest, her reaction was "I don't have a problem with people being gay. But I am definitely NOT."

 

Excellent points on how our parents and we as parents influence how orientation is handled. My parents, particularly my mom, always asked about when would I date someone, get married, have kids, she really really really wanted grandchildren. Given their fundamentalist background, being gay was not an option which I learned the hard way.

For myself with my own kids and other kids in extended family, I never assume anyone should get married or have kids or any combination of the two. In fact I've stepped in from time to time when some get on the "do you have a girl/boy-friend" bandwagon, telling the "adults" to leave them kids alone. [John, Dean ]

I even went so far after one of those bandwagons got shot down to pull the kid aside and said that adults have no right to pressure you to date or not date anyone as long as you're not putting yourself in danger or not otherwise following the rules of the house. I even mentioned it doesn't matter what kind of person you're interested in as long as you both respect each other. And I said that if they ever needed someone to talk to I'd back em up and be there for em.

I think the message got thru, I got a few glances the rest of the evening from the kid. I just gave a reassuring nod and smile when I saw it.

 

That's wonderful advice for the "later in life" crowd or anywhere else, Richie.

An older woman I know who has gone through many years of hell (polio, stroke--actually in the middle of a church service we were doing together!--diabetes, assorted surgeries on many body parts) always seems to keep a positive attitude and keep moving through it all. Her standard comment is that "whatever happens, today is a gift, and that's why we call it the 'present'." She's currently homebound after back surgery, and I spent an hour and a half visiting her yesterday, just sitting in her room, feet up on her bed, laughing about whatever popped into our heads. Her determination and positive attitude in the face of very obvious physical pain amazes me. It certainly helps put my own problems of the day or the week into a much different perspective. We all have a lot more strength and endurance inside of us than we realize.

 

It's so true about family pressuring to be straight. I always grew up being told I would marry a man and have kids and I totally bought into that. I have told my kids it doesn’t matter if they are gay or straight as long as they give me at least one grandchild between them. lol okay so I'm not perfect but they can always adopt if they come out as being gay! lol
All kidding aside, my daughter knows she should be independent before she makes long term relationship decisions. I never was and feel that if I had spent time alone, living on my own, that I may have ended up with a different life.

 

I've never thought of it before. I know we spent a long time picking names that would look nice on a law office door. My last name is Scottish, but somewhat difficult to pronounce. My wife's is four letters and easy to pronounce. It also has a lovely sentiment as a meaning. Mine means son of a sea raider, probably the bastard son of some rape victim during a Norse raid :roflmao:. I used to joke about giving up my name for hers. I know I wouldn't give up my name, but I might do something like adding his name without a hypen, too pretentious.

As to giving advice to my children regarding marriage pressure. It surely would be something I'd add to the parental repertoire. My youngest has several friends who've same sex parents and is trying to fix me up with whoever she knows is gay. My eldest daughter is currently playing house with her boyfriend with our unexpressed disapproval. My son does not want to discuss anything that has to do with being gay. He's 16 and has Asperger's. He knows daddy is gay, and that we're divorcing, which is more than enough on his plate; thank you very much (his sentiments). I do know we've talked about getting married and having kids without mentioning a gay relationship.

That is what I and so many of us here have done. What we were supposed or meant to do. When my mother confronted me shortly after my father died about my being gay and I made the decision to remain her son and be straight, it was never to be spoken of again. There was no one to ask if I was doing the right thing, after such a pact. It was quite simply the right and best possible outcome for my life. Happy ending, close curtain. Gay or straight, we seldom talk about the following acts...kids, houses, cars, holidays, money, schools, retirement. Sexuality, romance, time has to be made for that. God forbid there be a snag.

Here we are hoping and praying the same fate doesn't await our own children. How many of us would be disappointed to hear one of our children is gay? I'm not talking about still loving, supporting them, or being disappointed in them; but disappointed for them, for ourselves. Aren't those societal pressures still with us. Do we not bring them to bear on those we love, because we don't want them to experience any hurt or rejection? When I picture my youngest daughter's wedding, it's a man to whom I am giving her away...a lovely bride walking up the aisle to marry my son.

I will be there for my children and love them no matter what, unlike the conditions my mother put upon her love. I like to think she'd have grown more open with time. With time and experience, I'll grow up and banish those societal pressures so I can truly celebrate whether or not my children are gay or straight. It may be a fine point, but I do fear what society can do to them and, inadvertantly, myself.

 

Good for you, Richie... Two steps forward, one step back. Can't look at each step, focus on the trend. (Is my statisitcs background showing?)

/Ed.(*hug*)