Every now and then when I come out to people (or members of my family) they all come out whit the "it's not natural argument" and they seem pretty comfy on it. Of course I tell them "If it's not natural, how come it's been on human civilizations since ever? Or how come animals have homosexual behavior?" But I'd like a better counterargument you know? Something I can shut their mouths with. Any advice?
That there are many species of animals who are homosexual including dogs. Also mention the fact the something being natural doesn't necessary make it good. For example iphones aren't natural, living past the age of 40 isn't natural but killing other people (outside your tribe) is natural. That's the kind of counter arguments I use.
I usually respond by telling them that their argument is a logical fallacy. You cannot say that something is wrong because it is unnatural or that something is correct because it is ntural. Depending on how they word their argument, they are usually using either the moralistic fallacy, naturalistic fallacy, appeal to nature, or a combination of the above. After that, you can tell them that not only are they being illogical but their statement about homosexuality being unnatural is incorrect. You can mention that homosexual behavior is found in a lot more species than homophobic behavior
Homophobia - RationalWiki Naturalistic fallacy - RationalWiki It's a bit hard to google these because you get swamped with religion or conservative arguments that homosexuality is not natural or something...
Currently, homosexual behavior has been documented in over 450 different animal species worldwide. For instance, observations indicate that Humboldt, King, Gentoo, and Adélie penguins of the same sex engage in “mating rituals like entwining their necks and vocalizing to one another.” In addition, male giraffes have also been observed engaging in homosexual behavior by rubbing their necks against each others’ bodies while ignoring the females. Yet another example is lizards of the genus Teiidae, which can copulate with both male and female mates. Biologists Nathan W. Bailey and Marlene Zuk from the University of California, Riverside have investigated the evolutionary consequences and implications of same-sex behavior, and their findings demonstrate benefits to what seems to be an evolutionary paradox. For example, their studies of the Laysan albatross show that female-female pairing can increase fitness by taking advantage of the excess of females and shortage of males in the population and provide superior care for offspring. Moreover, same-sex pairing in many species actually alleviates the likelihood of divorce and curtails the pressure on the opposite sex by allowing members to exhibit more flexibility to form partnerships, which in turn strengthens social bonds and reduces competition. Thus, not only do animals exhibit homosexuality, but the existence of this behavior is quite prevalent and may also confer certain evolutionary advantages. Yale Scientific Magazine | The Nation's Oldest College Science Publication – Do Animals Exhibit Homosexuality? I'd imagine that homosexuality also occurs in many other species but it might be hard to get the resources together to properly investigate this kind of thing
It's not natural seems to be many peoples response. But you have hardly even tried to argue and already you have more to say about why you think it is normal than they do to say it's not.
I would just chuckle a little and then say, "Not nartural for you." This makes you confident, and shows that you're not buying thier argument.
If someone presses on, "Did god intend men to have sex with other men?" Two things. One, to someone who isn't well educated on biblical passages: "YES!" Two, to those better educated: "Did god intend people to hate each other simply based on sexual orientation?" That will DEFINITELY shut them up.
I would ask them to define natural. Then, ask why that is their definition. Then, offer my own definition of the word natural. lol.
:lol: This is brillant. I'll read about "Natural fallacy" too it seems useful. Thanks everybody for your responses :icon_bigg
I read the other day a comedian saying "The bible says homosexuality isn't natural" he then pauses "and what a talking snake is?" I like this one for the religious argument.
I usually tell my friends that "I didn't know that disliking others for an implemented, uncontrollable feeling was natural." Shuts them up every time.
I usually stick with "Get rid of your cell phone, your car, your Twinkies and your clothes, come back, and then I'll listen to your argument about 'natural'." Lex