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27 dead in Newtown, Conn. school shooting

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Revan, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. Veneficus

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    This is a tragedy. All this talk of gun control when we are forgetting the real issue is our lacking mental healthcare. He may not have been able to kill so many people without a gun, but he may not have killed anyone had he gotten the help he needed.
     
  2. Linthras

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    Of course, but the two issues are not mutually exclusive.
     
  3. FunnyMonkey

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    One of my friends is a teacher Sandy Hook, he lost one little girl from his class in the shooting.
    Now it not the time to talk about gun control or mental healthcare we should be talking about the victims and their families.
     
  4. Revan

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  5. inthedark4eva

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    It's sad that people still have this racists mentality. People always talk about how racism is on the decrease but this proves how wrong they are. And to prioritize football over the Newtown tragedy.....

    This is one of the major problems is the US....people's priorities are so f*cked up. I'm not really a sports fan but I always support my home teams. Being from New England, I was absolutely disgusted that between Friday and Saturday while EVERYONE else was posting their sadness over the shootings in Connecticut, the Patriots page on facebook didn't post ANYTHING until Sunday. Fans were literally begging for them to post something about the shootings. Finally on Sunday, they posted this....

    [​IMG]

    I actually unliked their page because of it.
     
  6. Emberstone

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    wrong. the gun cannot be seperated from the crime. Mental health is a facet, but it is only one facet of a much larger problem. the fact that military grade mass kill weapons are extremely easy to purchase since the nra unbanned them for profit making of their coorporate overlords is a facet, and a far larger one. not every massacre can be chalked up to mental health issues driving the person to take up a gun and kill people indiscriminately and in large numbers.

    most gun violence is commited by people who dont have any mental health issues, just a lack of morals and conscience.
     
  7. Motov

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    We do not need to turn this into a political issue, The second amendment is there to protect us from a hostile Government.
    It is a sad time for those who were killed, What we need to do is find out why this guy turned into a maniac, He would have found a way to creating mass murder without guns.
    Ie making flamethrowers, bombs, molotov cocktails, poison gas, and other methods, you still have to deal with the maniac, and why he went on a killing spree.
     
  8. gordilocks

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    on the subject of racism...
    [​IMG]
     
  9. BudderMC

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    Think about it for a second. Yes, better gun control means less gun-related crimes (in theory), but those same people who feel the need to commit violence will find another way to do it.

    I think what Veneficus is proposing is that gun control is almost a "band-aid" fix to the problem, whereas the real root that needs to be addressed is the motive behind the crimes. And mental health is one facet of that, whereas people aren't going "oh, I have a gun, therefore I should commit a crime".

    I'm curious to see those stats on your last sentence though, if you have them.
     
  10. Ticklish Fish

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    I thought a lot of crimes are based on motives lol.

    like, "why do you steal?" "why do you rape?" "why do you assault?" "why do you hostage someone/people?" etc.

    i might be watching too many fictional crime dramas, but the number of people doing crimes for the "thrill" shouldn't be a lot...

    remind me of the video of the (white?) girl who suicide because she showed her boobs.

    if she was black (which an actual another case), the publicity isn't much
     
  11. Emberstone

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    not all guns are equal, and not all weapons are equal. it used to be you need 5-6 people to do a massacre like this. Thanks to reversing bans, not it takes one person one-tenth of the time to do the same ammount of murder.

    people keep saying 'well, they will get a knife and a shovel'. thats stupid. you cant kill 26 people in such a quick ammount of time with a knife or a shovel. they are not equal to a gun.

    a hunting rifle is not able to do anywhere as much damage as a assualt rifle with an extended clip.
     
  12. Rakkaus

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    It takes only one person going to Home Depot to buy fertilizer and some PVC piping to make pipe bombs to blow up whole crowds of people.

    Making this about guns is a distraction, and a lazy response to the much deeper societal problems that drive these incidents to occur.

    Assault rifles serve no good purpose and should never have been invented, but this is the USA, the only country on earth to have ever dropped atomic bombs on civilian cities, when humanity should have thrown away the recipe for nuclear weapons before a single one was ever developed. The United States is hooked on violence.
     
  13. Emberstone

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    so basicaly the vile you are spewing should be listened to because we have had more fertilizer bombs than massacres. need I remind you that the last time we had someone detonate a fertilizer bomb in an act of mass murder was 1994 oklahoma city bombing.

    how vile of you to compare one act of terrorisem involve fertilizer bombs in the last 18 years to gun massacres that happened every few months (and two in the last week).

    in the last two years alone, over 24,000 people have been victims of GUN violence.

    DONT COMPARE APPLES TO ORANGES!!!
     
  14. Meropspusillus

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    I think that you're missing Rakkaus's point. I'm not gonna speak for him, but I'll speak what I'm thinking.

    I agree, gun violence is a big problem in this country, and I think we need to take action to put harsher gun control laws into place. People shouldn't be owning assault rifles; period.

    Likewise, as others have pointed out, the poor state of mental healthcare in this country is another issue.

    But again, I think we're just adding band-aids to the larger issues that Rakkaus is addressing. American culture glorifies violence. I was listening to NPR earlier and a former ATF director guessed that this recent crime would result in more people buying assault rifles because they think they could use them to protect themselves. To me, the problem lies just as much in the cultural idea that guns are for protecting, which is preposterous, guns are killing machines.

    I agree, it's important we address gun control and mental healthcare. But I don't think we should ignore the fact that there is a bigger problem that America has that we need to address: As Rakkaus already pointed out, we're addicted to violence.
     
  15. Emberstone

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    dont blunt the reality by making invalid, gross, and offensive comparrisions. it perpetuates the stupidity that keeps us from solving anything.
     
  16. Ticklish Fish

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    Can I be lazy and just say US has "a lot of"* problems? lol.
    *relatively

    Speaking as someone who migrated to US, currently I can't see the part about people addicted to violence... I mean, I can see people addicted to alcohol/ drama/ smoking/ sex/ religion, but I haven't seen the violence addiction part.

    Care to open my eyes a bit?

    (Also, there are also other killing machines, like Chinese productions using lead or harmful chemicals in toys or purses or something.... but those are quite indirect...)

    EDIT: I just saw the part about US currently the one and only country to atomic bomb other people, hahaha. Ok, no laughing matter.

    EDIT2: currently at this moment I feel like those people who blame gun controls are the ones who might lawsuit everything first place... broad generalization, I know ._.
     
    #96 Ticklish Fish, Dec 17, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  17. Rakkaus

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    Way to miss the point.

    If Adam Lanza couldn't get a gun, he could just as easily have gone and bought fertilizer, made a bunch of bombs and blew up the whole school and killed even more people.

    Violence is violence, there is no "apple" or "orange" way to be killed, dead is dead.

    A gun is an instrument, nothing more, and to focus on the gun is to distract everyone from the root causes of these events. To try to exploit situations like this to bring up an old liberal pet cause like "gun control", and ignore addressing the deeper sicknesses in American society that actually led to the event, is what is truly vile.

    And tbh, blaming an inanimate object for a human problem is just plain stupid.
     
  18. Emberstone

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    you really are that clueless?

    are you aware that unlike the guns he used to kill those students, the ingredients used to make bombs are highly regulated? you cant easily buy the fertilizer without the goverment authorities knowing, and if the goverment sees that you dont actually serve in any compacity that would actually use the fertilizer (basically, your not in the production of agrecultureal products), they investigate.

    WHY DO YOU THINK THAT SINCE THE LAST BOMB, THERE HAVENT BEEN ANY MORE SUCCESSFUL ONES?

    you dont even understand what is going on here.

    the extended magazines that turned the two handguns into assualt weapons, along with the assualt rifle itself were originally illegal, and when they were, these kinds of massacres (aurora, clackamas town center, sandy hook, virgina tech, etc) were extremely rare; it was extremely hard for one gunman to enter a location, and shoot even half as many people were shot and killed in sandy hook.

    it used to be you needed more than one, with a huge arsenol of weapons on them to even get close.

    but we are not allowed to regulate guns, or reban military grade weapons from civilian use. it is not because there are laws preventing it, but because special interest groups have held our legislature hostage through what in most countries qualifies as the illegal act of 'blackmail' (you do what we tell you, or we will destroy any chance you have to being elected dog catcher!)

    STOP COMPARING APPLES TO ORANGES.

    fertilizer is not the same as a gun. NOT ALL THINGS A PERSON CAN BE KILLED WITH ARE EQUAL, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT EXIST WITH THE SAME EASE AND EFFIENCENCY OF KILLING, OR AVALIBILITY!!!
     
    #98 Emberstone, Dec 17, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  19. BudderMC

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    Okay, but what you're saying (by responding to Rakkaus) is that some deaths are more serious than others, based on the method the victim has been killed.

    Is a death not a tragedy all the time? Should we not be looking at the causes of people needing to commit (not the means) murder in the first place?

    Also, lay off the caps, please. :/
     
  20. an0nchick

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    Like I'd tell you here. ;)
    Yep, it's the lack of mental health care. Tragedy.

    ---------- Post added 17th Dec 2012 at 05:09 PM ----------

    Yep. That's why I hate the media.

    ---------- Post added 17th Dec 2012 at 05:11 PM ----------

    My condolences. I'm very sorry.(*hug*)