Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by hellotherelove, Oct 19, 2014.
I agree, the whole situation is based on misogyny, not just lesbians being fearful of men being a bigger threat, but as you said straight men treating lesbian sex encounters as 'non-threatening' or 'less than real'. Both sides imply that women are inferior to men, don't count as people, and you need a dick to have sex.
While there are a few women out there who may think guy-on-guy is hot as well, it is still less common to see this behavior in them; many women would consider a bi male to be a threat to her relationship and him being with a guy considered 'worse'. Every sexuality and every gender has a hidden feeling that 'men are better' which is rooted in misogyny.
However, I can understand why lesbians would feel threatened if they grow up in a society that constantly says 'men are better', 'it's only real sex with a man', 'you only exist for a man's pleasure', I mean yeah, that sucks. But as I've said again and again; there are bisexuals who are not phallocentic, and there are lesbians who are. So the danger isn't in actual bi women, It's in people who are phallocentic.
Definitely, I'm actually dating one at the moment.. ^^
Let me elaborate,
This is simply untrue. The notion that female bisexuality doesn't ignite paranoia and jealously within male counterparts of heterosexual relationships as often as with lesbian relationships is completely baseless and would go against what the vast majority of bisexual women who have experience in the heterosexual world would say. Sexualization does not equal acceptance. Just as with the acceptance of lesbians by heterosexual males, simply because many heterosexual males might be more "excited" by the prospects of having a bisexual partner does not mean that they are more accepting of them. Enthusiastic about the prospects of having a threesome, absolutely; however, that is certainly not the case when it comes to sex and relationships when they aren't included.
Your statements about female sexuality being regarded as less respectable than male sexuality is absolutely valid; however, applying that concept to the origins of biphobia simply would not be accurate as the disbelief and judgement directed as bisexuals spans across the enter community equally regardless of their own gender, or the gender and orientation of their partners.
Nothing that you've described in that post is exclusive to female bisexuals, nor even disproportionately directed at them in comparison to males. Many things in regards to sexual and gender prejudice can be attributed to misogyny, but there are many things that go beyond it. Inaccurate attributions of concepts of prejudice, such as misogyny, to issues that have much more simple, clear-cut, and widespread only serves to lower credibility of feminist values; i.e., everything that includes the discrimination or scrutiny of women is not misogynistic when a proportionate amount of discrimination and scrutiny is directed at both men and women within the same social group.
Listen, I'm a not-straight woman. You don't have to explain that sexualization is not acceptance. Trust me, I know all about that, but I really think you're misconstruing my message. Nowhere did I say anything about males being more "accepting" of bi women. To be honest, I'm still not clear as to what you're arguing against lol... Everything you're saying is true, just because I didn't mention it doesn't mean I don't agree. Like I said, I'm speaking on the fact that many lesbians express that inferiority to males opinion when it comes to bisexual women, but from my experience, males don't hold that same sentiment. Their bisexual gf cheating with a woman wouldn't be as threatening as if she treated with a man because, as already stated, misogyny. Period. I never said that males don't have some paranoia over bisexual women, but they do for different reasons , that I haven't gone into because that's not what my post was about.
Prejudice that is directed at both genders is still misogyny. Homophobia, against males, females, trans, anyone, stems from misogyny. While both genders deal with prejudice stemming from misogyny, the way that manifests is in different ways. At the basis, it all has to do with hatred of the feminine. I'm uncomfortable at the fact that you seem to be taking issue with me talking about misogyny. Not even sure why you're bringing up feminism at all. Weird that you think this issue is "simple" or "clear-cut". Considering you're a gay male, it's even stranger that you think you know lesbian/bisexual female relations better than I do...
Concerning the above: it's odd that you would say that yet at the end of your comment you say:
Got it! Ebola, along with everything ever, was caused by misogyny.
But it is misogyny. Think about it. Why do some straight guys think It's hot or non-threatening for their girlfriend to sleep with other women but It's horrible or a huge threat to the relationship for a straight girl's boyfriend to sleep with men? It implies that women make lesser sexual partners and don't count as the real thing.
No where am I talking about what a man thinks. This is all what straight men say and do, experienced by bisexual women. Consdering this subject concerns my own gender/non-straight orientation, I fail to see how it's odd that I'm saying these things...
Yikes. It's sad that even males who suffer from the same oppression women do can still be against women.
I'm not saying that it is or isn't. I'm just pointing out the hypocritical nature of some of that comment and poking fun at the overuse of the word "misogyny".
---------- Post added 22nd Oct 2014 at 10:55 PM ----------
All I am saying is that you are being very prejudiced against straight guys.
Honestly, I believe there's some (not a lot, but some) truth in Nightswimming's comments. I mean, as weird and ridiculous as this may sound, if my girlfriend one day told me she'd cheated on me with another girl, I really wouldn't care at all. It just wouldn't feel like she did anything wrong.
Obviously I don't agree it has anything to do with misogyny, though. And I don't think a girl can decide it does, because clearly a girl can't know what goes on inside a guy's head.
Wtf?? Where have I said anything prejudice against straight males??
lmao. no matter what sexual orientation, males will always struggle to deny misogyny. it's even funnier i'm having a conversation like this on an lgbt forum.
Perhaps I used the wrong word. Either way, you are still assuming that all males have the same opinion (when in a relationship with a bi woman) and then you go on to say that that "opinion" is down to misogyny...
How is it "even funnier"? I'm just trying to balance out the scales here by not agreeing with you when you say that all guys have the same opinion.
...this whole convo started over me talking about internalized misogyny and WOMEN. Once males see the words "men" and "misogny", they instantly get on the defensive. I had a gay woman reply to me and agree because guess what, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging a flaw in your thought process. Apparently, men can't do that, especially when it's about a woman calling them out on something that has to do with women.
Where did I even say that all men have the same opinion? Direct quote, please.
I think it's the fact that you address men in a pretty stereotypical, overgeneralizing way that people seem to have a problem with. I, personally, am not offended easily at all, but... I can see that might be what they find offensive, in a way.
Here you directly mention "males opinion" as if it is something that we all share.
So, as a male, I feel very offended that you are suggesting that I wouldn't/don't care if my bisexual girlfriend cheated on me with another woman. I would be devastated, and I can think of many people who would also be devastated.
I.. highly doubt that this is the direction the person creating this thread wanted to take..
Arguments like this don't go anywhere, I'm sure it would be appreciated if you could just drop it.
And we would be fine with that as long as you agree that if your girlfriend sleeps with other men that It's also okay and she hasn't done anything wrong (seeing as that would just be a normal open relationship).
Otherwise, if there's a problem with a guy's girlfriend being with other men it -DOES- have to do with misogyny because it goes back to the 'women are inferior and can't have 'real' sex unless a man is involved' which is a belief that implies that women are property for men to own. If they weren't, it would be seen as equal on both sides.
Nope, if she sleeps with another man, we're done.
No, it doesn't. And no, that's not what it goes back to. That's not a belief I share. Like I said, you can't know what goes on inside a guy's head. Misogyny is not the only explanation out there, even though you'd like to believe that.
Also, I think the_lone_wolf is right in that this isn't the place to have this discussion. Maybe people who want to continue to talk about this can take it to their walls? Because it's not helping the OP in any way.
Okay, so this is literally a situation of #notallmen. So, for future reference, to any males reading my posts, throw in the word "some" before every instance I use "men" or "males", then maybe your feelings won't be so hurt.
...lol. okay... that's supposed to read "inferiority-to-males" opinion. If all this misunderstanding stems from a syntax error, then...
---------- Post added 22nd Oct 2014 at 06:38 PM ----------
Yet a bisexual male just said that he wouldn't be offended so guess who I'm talking about in my posts? If you know you're not like that, then you shouldn't be getting your panties in a bunch. You should be deriding the males who do think like that.
Sure, but I only like guys :lol:. If they were, then of course!