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Why are people straight or gay?

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by Danno1, Jan 7, 2015.

  1. paris

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    To say that everyone who's sexual should be automatically sexual with both genders is like to say that everyone who has genitals should be automatically sexual.
     
  2. indiqo

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    THIS. no words to add.

    stop posting stuff that makes sense ;D
     
  3. Rikudou

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    My approach to this question is philosophical, rather than based on any actual research done in the field. There are far too many conflicting studies done that support both ends of the spectrum of opinions. I do not agree that preference and sexual drive are exclusively formed via separate factors, but instead as a combination of several. To simplify this, we as humans can never be 100% sure of anything, we can force ourselves into a state in which we can get close to that, and what little remains we subconsciously chose to ignore. People are dynamic, fluid, ever changing. There is nothing about us to which we can attribute such a definitive answer. To simplify this even further. Let us look at this not only from the point of sexual attraction, as there is also a psychological factor worth considering. If a person was absolutely 100% gay, then would that not mean that they should be unable to form any kind of a relationship, like friendship for example, with people of the opposite sex? What if someone was androgynous, would a 100% gay person be attracted in this case? People are different and at the same time they are not. Characteristics that we find appealing in a gender, can be present in the opposite gender as well. I believe that this invalidates to a point, the idea that a person can be absolutely 100% straight or gay. I myself being biromantic cannot however fully get into the mindset of such a person, so therefore my opinion should not be perceived as fact. I admit that I have failed in phrasing my original posting correctly.

    I am deeply sorry for offending you and anyone else who might have read this. It was not my intention to do so. You have the absolute right to question my beliefs as I lay them out in the open. I am not denying the possibility of me being wrong, and thank you and Gen for arguing against the point I am making.
     
  4. Fallingdown7

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    I wasn't offended by you really, but more so this thread in general because I constantly have people telling me that I have to question or get over the fact that I don't like men so It's become a sensitive subject.

    I do agree with you that most people are not 100% gay or straight, but I don't think that's true for everyone is all.

    Though I agree with some of your points since I'm attracted to masculine and androgynous women as well, and I can think men are 'cute' but not sexually attractive.

    I think when people say 100% gay they just mean no possibility of ever feeling sexual interest in the opposite sex, ever. Not that they can't find the opposite sex good looking (which I can sometimes).

    I just get more sensitive on the subject because I live in a corrective rape culture of people constantly trying to question me or trying to 'cure' me into liking men.
     
  5. soulcatcher

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    Have you even looked up the definition of 'gay', because that non-sequitur whereby completely gay men not able to form friendships with an opposite sex is absolute tripe.
     
  6. Damien

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    I think you are over-thinking and over-complicating something that is actually very simple.

    It's like asking "why do some folks like mangoes, while others prefer bananas?"

    Answer: Because people have different tastes. I think it's as simple as that, and not only is a more detailed explanation impossible to find, I don't think it's even necessary.

    There are some questions that have no clear-cut answer, which only end up leading one down various rabbit-holes of inquiry but which never lead to any definitive conclusion.

    ---------- Post added 9th Jan 2015 at 08:00 AM ----------

    Actually, I've met a fair few folks here who claim that they are 100% gay or lesbian, and I believe them. Also I've read stories of gay men who said that even from when they were little boys, they always knew they were gay, and were never attracted to girls in the slightest. So I cannot agree with your statement here.
     
    #46 Damien, Jan 8, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2015
  7. arkangel

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    I almost feel like some people here are hating on males 0_0. I hope I am wrong, and that its not male hate, just sexual preference statements... If it is male hate... :/

    I believe one is born with their gender attraction predetermined. I don't for one minute believe it is a choice, unless someone for whatever reason decides they want to be gay/lesbian. I, and I'm sure I speak for most of us, did not choose to be homosexual. The reason I am attracted to males and not women? Well I don't think it has much to do with masculinity. Im rather feminine myself, but I do not feel attraction to overly masculine men. I don't like bulging muscles on a man any more than I would on a woman. I don't like body hair any more on a man than a woman. I am not solely attracted to femininity by nature, but for me, I find the thought of sex with a female offputing. I don't hate Vagina's, I just have no interest in them. I don't find them disgusting, but I don't find them attractive. I don't like, nor dislike them. I don't like or dislike penis either, but I would only ever consider sex with a man. I also would not consider sex with someone just because. It is an emotional, mental, and physical attraction that I need. I can't for any reason be physically attracted to someone if my mind isn't in it. If I don't care for the person, and I don't feel for them, I'm not going to have sex with them. While pornography is different in the fact that I am not involved with the one being watched, I still may feel slight physical attraction, but I would not have intercourse with them without getting to know them and being with them for a while.

    I don't hate the female body, but I don't find attraction to it. I understand it enough, and I respect women, but I, no matter how much I try, can not feel, inside my mind/heart, mentally/emotionally attracted to the female body. I don't know why, but I can't. It is not that I love penis either, or the thought of anal sex. But I would much rather just cuddle up with a boy and just be together. For me, its not all about sex. Relationships have bonuses, but its not just SEX SEX SEX on my mind. ITs almost never on my mind. I have never been with a male yet, but I can not for one minute ever picture myself being with a woman. I want to be with a male. Hold his hand, hold him close, walk with him, carry him if he needs me to, embrace and be with him. I can't ever picture it with a woman, I just can't. I tried to force it before, and it just ended up making me more confused. I dated a girl for a while, 9 months. We kissed, made out, and held each other, and there were times that I so badly wanted to be straight. She was nice, she was pretty (I am not blind to what is beautiful in a woman/handsome on a male), she was smart and everything. I wanted to be with her mentally, but physically, there was no attraction. It needs to be a strong combination of feeling/physical attraction for it to work for me.

    I hope this helps. And I hope some of the things I have read here were not male hate. Have a wonderful day.
     
  8. Damien

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    Fallingdown I have always liked and respected your posts but this one makes my blood boil. You have got to be joking. 'Liberals' are ok with incest (in comparison with 'non-liberals', I take it)? Are you actually serious? And do you really think that 'most' of us would be 'ok' with 'trying' something (child abuse) that has been proven to usually permanently damage a person and they have to then heal from it for the rest of their lives? Could you maybe be a bit more careful in how you choose your words?
     
    #48 Damien, Jan 8, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2015
  9. Fallingdown7

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    I don't hate men. I think the women here (including myself) just came off aggressive because we're used to people forcing men on us; instead of our sexualities being 'we love women', It's always seen as 'You dislike men, or why don't you like men, what happened to make you dislike penis", etc, it gets old and many of us are tired of being invalidated which is why this thread set off a chord between some of us.

    I hate the idea that I have to be sexually attracted to men and I hate the idea of forced heterosexuality, but I don't hate men. And some of the examples I used were personal experiences of gross men that don't respect my sexuality, but not all men are like that. My Dad is my favorite person to talk to; he wouldn't be if I were a misandrist.

    "Fallingdown I have always liked and respected your posts but this one makes my blood boil. You have got to be joking. 'Liberals' are ok with incest (in comparison with 'non-liberals', I take it)? Are you actually serious? And do you really think that 'most' of us would be 'ok' with 'trying' something (child abuse) that has been proven to usually permanently damage a person and they have to then heal from it for the rest of their lives? Please explain"

    That entire post was sarcasm, you all should know me for my sarcastic questions and statements when people start offensive threads like this lol. This guy seems to think that everyone with genitals immediately feels pleasure and enjoyment from having them touched to the point 'It doesn't matter what gender does it, It's the same!!!!" So I pointed out that having your father touch your genitals feels the same and he flipped out and said most people wouldn't do that. COMPLETELY proved his disgusting hypocrisy.

    Most people 'being okay' with trying incest was a sarcastic joke that didn't come out very well. But most liberals are fine with consensual adult incest with no power balances in certain situations. No one is okay with child abuse, and not all incest is child abuse. Cousin marriages are even more common and legal than gay marriages are and I have relatives in relationships like that; no one has been harmed by it especially since they never grew up together. No one is okay with parent/child incest though, and the only reason I brought up 'parent performing sex act' was It's an extreme/gross end scale that might make him see how I personally feel about a man doing the same.
     
    #49 Fallingdown7, Jan 8, 2015
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  10. Nightdream

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    Let's change this to: you can't possibly be attracted to a woman or a male unless you're into females(lesbian/straight male/gynephilic/bisexual) or males(gay male/straight female/androphilic/bisexual) and you get the answer you're looking for. Not everyone is into incest as well as not everyone is into children, same thing goes for straight and gay individuals. Straight people are not going to be attracted to the same sex because they're not into the same sex, but they are into the opposite one.
     
  11. arkangel

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    Thank god. I was hoping I was wrong. I kind of thought it wasn't male hate, I just wanted to be sure. I Was about to offer my apologies for being male, that I don't want to offend anyone because I can't stand the thought of someone hating me for something out of my control :frowning2: (*hug*)
     
  12. MrSkittles

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    Scientists say its caused by a structure in your brain that determines your sexual orientation but I don't think that's true.
     
  13. Quiet Raven

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    Never apologize for being male. If someone hates you for being male they aren't worth it. Like you said, it is beyond your control, so why should you apologize for something you didn't do?

    But don't worry, I don't think anyone here here is a male hater.
     
  14. stocking

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    Anyone feel some of the post got bigoted:confused:
    Saying people can't be 100% lesbian or gay.
    I can understand being curious but this whole thing seems monophobic to me.
    Are you really an asexual man op or did you just come on to use a platform to just say gays and lesbians don't exist?:confused:
    In disguise as a question.
     
  15. soulcatcher

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    OP needs to get back under the bridge. Too superfluous for my liking.
     
    #55 soulcatcher, Jan 8, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2015
  16. sublimeprincess

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    Oh! That's what you don't get. Sexual attraction and arousal is not a physical thing. It's actually much more of a mental thing. Then you put a bunch of erroneous assumptions.

    Look at these articles, which talk about the biology, neurology, and behavioral mechanisms dealing with sexuality:

    http://contextualscience.org/files/barnes_1997_1.pdf

    A Psychophysiological Exploration of Sexual Arousal Patterns in Females and Males - Heiman - 2007 - Psychophysiology - Wiley Online Library


    Some people feel sexual arousal when you slap them in the face as hard as you can. There's this whole sexual deviance (deviance meaning sexual acts that are not part of the norm - other 32%) called BDSM who are totally into that. AND people have orgasms WITHOUT EVER TOUCHING someone - just by mere language. Sexual arousal has little to do with the actual stimulation of the physical sexual areas.

    Hope that clears up some stuff. :icon_wink:thumbsup:
     
  17. stocking

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    You tell it bro:eusa_clap
     
  18. Danno1

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    I'm sorry but why are some of you insulting me? I feel like some people here are being very defensive and even rude, how can I get some better understanding about my questions when it seems people can't even have a respectful debate? Geez guys, you don't know me, why on earth would you for no reason "suspect" that I'm lying and only trying to make you guys feel bad? Why would I even want to do that lol. I actually apologized before if I offended someone with my questions, but who is actually being offensive here? someone who just doesn't understand why sexual people can't be bi or the people here who are making accusations and mocking me for the hell of it? Respect towards other people has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation, and in any case, I am in the same boat as you since I'm non-straight either. Do you guys think you're the only ones usually being discriminated against? Asexuality is not even considered a sexual orientation or something actually real so don't tell me how bad it is for you, jesus.

    At any rate, thanks everyone who has answered my questions and has been respectful towards me. It has indeed help, I still don't fully get it, but I guess I'll never do because it's so difficult for someone like me who is ace (not saying all asexuals don't get it - just in case someone wants to throw another false accusation at me) to understand that someone who has a libido and gets physically aroused for the same sexual acts has a 100% exclusive preference towards one of the sexes, I feel like in the end what matters the most for you are the genitals of the person and I just feel it's sad that people marry due to genitals, of course there is also love and emotional attraction and masculinity/femininity like many people are saying but in the end if the person is the "wrong" genitals then love apparently isn't enough, or you can't even love that person to begin with.

    I'll do more research about this and I might ask these questions again on another forum if people here keep insulting me when I have been completely respectful and polite - albeit ignorant I get that - with everyone. And I'm sorry but being often insulted and surrounded by homophobes is no excuse to treat badly others who are not.
     
    #58 Danno1, Jan 9, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2015
  19. vicky90

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    I appreciate your curiosity into -sexuality- one of the most complex subject for human evolution.. but I would like to differ with your early conclusion like below..

    There is no generalized end or beginning for sexual and romantic orientation. Those are complicated things. Different people like different characteristics of different genders.

    I am very attracted to male body, emotions, personality, voice. For different males, I may be attracted to different parts of the male body of that person - e.g.face, facial hair, chest, muscles, tough skin, dick etc. At times, even love & romantic feelings for a male person may take my sexual attractions for that person to a much higher level. If that person has dick or not is a tough question and I don't think we are qualified enough to generalize it for everyone in the world. Since my brain is developed thinking that male biology will always have a dick, it will be difficult for me to consider some male without dick But I cannot conclude that for someone else. Attractions differ from person to person.

    P.S. I don't think you can find exact reasons for why people are straight or gay in this forum. Even scientists, psychologists, etc. are struggling to find answers for the same.
     
    #59 vicky90, Jan 9, 2015
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  20. Danno1

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    Btw I forgot to mention - no I don't think gay (or straight) people want to sleep with everything that moves, I know sexual people only have sex with certain people / certain situations, they are not fucking all day lol, or I least I hope not! Thanks for your answer Vicky, and also your links and post Sublimeprincess, I didn't think about that, about being aroused without having/watching sex, the actual sex act, but I mean if you are attracted to someone just by talking / looking at someone without thinking about their genitals, wouldn't that support my thinking that everyone is bi to an extent, like for instance there are several factors aside from genitals that matter regarding sexual orientation right?

    - Physical appearance /Masculinity/Femininity
    - Personality
    - Relationship

    I understand that a gay man for instance can find good-looking both genders (like I can) but sexually attractive only men (genitals aside, man = a person who looks like a man). But what if a woman fit all those factors? Like, she is masculine-looking (some girls pass so perfectly as guys and have very small breasts), has a good personality and one which you like, and you have a close relationship with that girl. Can a gay man feel arousal too (just from talking with the person)? A. If not, what is the difference with the person being male (having a penis down there instead of a vagina - something you are not thinking about or seeing or anything at all at that moment). And would it change anything if the gay man actually thought she was a man at first? B. If yes, would that be just a physical reaction (not "mentally" attracted to her) and would he still feel attraction towards her when in bed (as in, when he actually thought about having sex with her - who has a vagina - would that turn him off or would the other factors be enough for him to enjoy sex with her, and if so then he wouldn't actually be 100% gay would he?).

    Also as a side question, someone has mentioned here that he only pictures himself in the future with a man, and I can relate to that in that I don't picture myself with anyone, but for someone who is sexual, what exactly makes you say that? Do you picture your life partner as male because you want to have sex only with men (penis) or because you want to be with someone with male traits (beard, short hair, male chest, muscles etc.) or a combination of both or... Or anything else xD, because personality and relationship factors can be found in females too.

    Oh and I know it's a question with different answers as you guys say but I'd like some kind of consensus if possible, otherwise it will be impossible for me to understand what being gay (or straight) entails if the concept itself is so abstract. Asexuality is so simple, you just don't feel sexual attraction, period, but this feeling sexual for one gender for so many different reasons and not for the other is beyond me - though I do begin to understand to some extent.

    I don't think it's so simple than "people have different tastes". There are so many variants to consider (people with no functional genitals due to accident/illness, androgynous-looking people or very masculine-looking woman / feminine-looking man, transgender, intersex, non-binary genders...), the way I see it it's almost a rarity for someone to be 100% straight or gay, I even get 90% or 95% but fully gay/straight? I think only people who like exclusively a certain set of genitals would be that way, and if that is true then it's hypocritical for straight people to say as an insult that gay people only care about dick when they actually do the same about vagina. In both cases I find it weird and sad BUT it's easier to understand: no dick/vagina = no attraction. Whatever variables there may be (the ones I just stated above). So a guy can give you a blowjob but if you're straight, you won't enjoy it because you'll think that the guy who is doing it is a guy (penis) and you're not attracted to guys/penis, am I understanding this correctly if going with the version that genitals are what determines sexual orientation?

    Btw sorry about rambling and long post, I'm kind of writing it down to organize my thoughts. Also I won't be able to respond for a while but I'll be checking the thread in case anyone wants to comment, any answer (except non-respectful ones) is welcome and might help!