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What to do...

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by old tacoma, Nov 2, 2020.

  1. JessNC

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    Thank you for sharing your journey, Old Tacoma. I hope it helps knowing that others are in the same or similar boats.

    My situation feels so complicated at times but in reality it can be summed up pretty quickly: I am in a 30+ year marriage that is quite good except for sex. And about a decade ago I started acting on pre-existing same sex desires and found that fulfilling. Now, my wife and I are wrestling with things. Neither wants to end things but she needs monogamy and I can't (or won't) deny my sexual needs that our relationship no lomger fulfills. On top of this I am increasingly engaged in a gender identity/expression journey moving away from typical masculinity. Maybe my situation is not so simple after all!

    It has been hard discussing things with my wife. But sharing who I am with her as I have become more open to my expanding sexual and gender stuff has been positive in some ways. We still love and like each other after decades together but finding happiness later in life seems to have become a different journey. It is so scary thinking about revealing this kind of thing to a spouse. And, in my case, I was ashamed about going outside of my marriage for my sexual needs and was afraid to admit this. But it has become clear to me that I have to find my own way of being "out" or the rest of my life will be less than what I want for myself--and for those I love.
     
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  2. old tacoma

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    Hi, JessNC — Good morning! Since I signed on to EC last week, I have found a new confidence about myself. I guess I can also say, that includes my sexuality.
    I spent most of the day yesterday with my friend. He has need of some home repair and renovation, and I’m a bit of a DIY guy, so I had offered to help him a while back, and he finally accepted. The day turned out very good, and I had a couple of unexpected experiences.
    We met early at his house to go walking. We have done this many times before. I always enjoy these times together because, in a small way, it has allowed me to “try on” being out as gay in public in a very safe manner. My friend is a kind of understated guy. As an example, yesterday morning for walking he wore a political campaign t-shirt with a very subtle twist - the standard design for this particular candidate but with a discreet rainbow added to the logo. I really like the t-shirt, and told him so. Even took a few pictures of him as we walked along the beach (a part of our walk).
    I know that strangers make all kinds of assumptions about others based on very limited information, and these walks with my friend have allowed me to experience myself being perceived as a gay man vicariously through the openly gay aspect of my friend. Not flamboyant, not out and proud, but like I wrote, the quiet, subtle confidence of an older gay man who is comfortable with who he is. This “guilt by association” is definitely present, because on days when I walk alone, I am sometimes asked, “Where’s your friend?” or “Where’s your partner?” All positive references to him.
    Anyway, we walked about 8-9 miles together and then went to his house to get showered and cleaned up before we set out on our plans (really his plans) for the day. Here I felt a little awkward, being in his bedroom and bathroom, where we had shared our very intimate moments together before his old boyfriend came back into his life (side note - they do not live together). But luckily I needed to get ready quickly if my friend and I were to complete our plans for the day.
    We used his truck instead of my truck, and headed out. First stop - the house of his former coworker and her husband. Dropping off some cookies my friend had made for them. So again I got to experience a bit of guilt by association. My friend introduced me, “This is my friend _____.” And we exchanged introductions. It was an interesting dynamic. My friend had worked with her for over 20 years and clearly they shared a long friendship together. She gave me some knowing glances whenever the discussion brought out one of my friend’s idiosyncrasies. “Ah, ___, you haven’t changed,” she’d say, while giving me some knowing nods. I was thinking to myself that she probably just assumes I’m another gay friend of his, and I am very ok with it. It feels very right. While she and my friend were talking, her husband came over with a big bag of avocados for us. Wow! (I love avocados.) And after exchanging our thanks, my friend and I drove off.
    My friend and I next went to a hardware store and I helped him pick out some fixtures and other things for his house, which was the main reason for me spending the day with him. Got those, and went to the “big box warehouse store” for each of us to load up on supplies. Then we shared a late lunch at an outdoor restaurant next to a small boat marina. Beautiful setting, good food and great conversation! We talked about all kinds of things, even our opinions of the waiters! I told my friend (again) just how much he means to me, how comfortable I am with him. I reminded him of a song I had previously told him about. The lyrics say, among other things, “I like me better when I’m with you.”
    After lunch, we drove back to his house. I grabbed the things I bought, and went home. The things he bought for his home projects will be for another day together.
    I had a great day!
     
  3. old tacoma

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    JessNC,
    I understand fully the conundrum you and I face in our marriages. Given yesterday, the day that I shared with my friend (I wrote above), I returned home to a reception of, “How did it go?” My wife was very hesitant. I told what I had done as I unloaded the supplies I bought earlier in the day. Nothing out of the ordinary, but I could sense some apprehension. After I showed her a couple of items I bought that I thought she might like/find useful, she was better.
    But, in a significant way, my journey has been and is different from yours. I have always been “out” internally to myself. It was external factors that keep me from coming out to anyone else. There were repeated opportunities for me to “go gay” but I continuously censored myself. Basically out of self-induced fear.
    I jokingly told my friend yesterday that my very first indication that I was gay that I can remember was when I was probably about 5 years old. During our lunch yesterday, we got to talking about old tv shows we watched as kids and the subject went to our favorite shows. I told him about the show ‘The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis.’ I still remember to this day my attraction to Maynard G. Krebbs, played by Bob Denver in that sitcom. He was so much more interesting and good looking to me than Dobie and his endless girlfriends. He may have been my first crush!
    My journey does not involve gender identity. I am not able to speak to that from my own personal experience. I have however worked with 2 persons who made the transition mtf and I am aware of the difficulties they have faced. I also know of 1 male acquaintance who, although he has not transitioned, he likes to express himself as a female in limited situations.
    What I can offer you is what I have offered them - an open mind, and a willing ear to listen.
     
  4. old tacoma

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    Just an update here. Thanks to all of the great threads I have been reading here, I’m feeling and doing much better. I have this notion that I have finally ‘settled in’ into a good place within myself. I am also at a good place with my friend. I helped him install a fixture (ceiling fan/light) he bought last week, and enjoyed spending yet another day with him.
    Sunday was interesting. Another guy I have got together with in the past contacted me, and we chatted for about an hour, so I finally just asked him if he wanted to meet again. He said he did, if I had some free time. So we met at his place. It was fun, we had a good time together. He told me that I seemed more confident and relaxed than the last time. I told him about EC, and how what I had been reading was so helpful, a kind of validation of what I have known inside myself for a long time. Truth be told, this guy is one of the nicest, sweetest guys I have ever met. Like my friend, he has lived his entire life as a gay man, but unlike my friend, this guy has been very very discreet, not out to anyone except a very few close friends all these years. None of his coworkers know that he is gay. How I met him is a long story, but we do enjoy each other. I like him, but not in the same way as my friend. With my friend, it’s much more intense, and I could honestly see myself spending the rest of my life with my friend. Not that I will, what with me being married and my friend having his boyfriend. It all sounds kind of like a soap opera, in a way. But I am now so much better at handling all this because of what I have read here at EC. And my journey is in fact still being lived each day, so the direction is open.
     
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  5. SevnButton

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    That's where I was, a few years back now, literally at our dining room table. The worst part about having these thoughts was being unable to share them with anyone. I figured surely, somewhere out there, someone must understand. Then I found Empty Closets. I was right.
     
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  6. old tacoma

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    @SevnButton
    Hit a rough patch in the road today. Having the house repainted, so I’m stuck here at home from now until next week, probably Thanksgiving. I need to be in standby mode in case the painters need anything. My wife is also here, working from home because of the pandemic. So I feel kind of boxed in right now. The silence between us is deafening. But not much to say, though.
     
  7. old tacoma

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    @quebec
    Thanks, David, for your ‘like’. I’m feeling kind of alone today. It’s good to know someone is out there!
     
  8. quebec

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    old tacoma.....I'm so glad that you've been able to spend time with your two friends! So many guys who have newly accepted that their sexuality is not straight focus their time on finding FWB when having another guy to just spend time with is actually more important. The "friendship" time that you are spending with your two friends will help you to establish a solid foundation based on mutual respect, not sex. Sex is great...but it's not the best building block when you are building a new you that includes acceptance of your sexuality. So happy for you!
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
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  9. old tacoma

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    @quebec — I wanted to change my mood from ‘no mood’ to ‘fine’ but it’s not listed for me. I accidentally tapped on ‘artistic’ and now I can’t seem to change it back. Do you know how?
     
  10. SevnButton

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    Hi @old tacoma -
    Looks like you figured it out-- now your mood shows 'fine'.
     
  11. old tacoma

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    Yes, I managed to get it. I’m ‘fine’ now. Learning about the EC site as well as learning from the EC site.
    I made guacamole yesterday from the avocados my friend and I got last week from his former coworker. It was pretty good, I think. So I offered some to my friend, and dropped it off at his house after dinner last night. He took the opportunity to show me the little fixes he has been doing around his house. He said I inspired him to do more after the two of us replaced his ceiling fan/light last week.
    So many thanks @quebec/David for your very timely input about building a solid foundation with friends — I kept thinking about that as he and I shared his home fixes. I really do like this guy. A lot. I just need to keep reminding myself to be patient with myself.
     
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  12. Bastion

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    Hey @old tacoma

    Hope you are well.

    I totally agree about what @quebec David said about building solid foundations with friends. That’s where am at now. But this pandemic situation is not making things any easier for sure.
     
  13. old tacoma

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    I have the next few hours to be alone at the house here. My wife is venturing out to her hairdresser, since some of the tighter pandemic restrictions have been lifted and hair salons have been allowed to reopen under certain conditions. Pre-pandemic my wife and I lived distinct lives. Not separate, but distinct. Our interaction was mainly over dinner, and dinner was mainly at a restaurant. Perhaps once a week we actually would have time together, consisting of my wife watching her shows and me reading online nearby. In these situations, I have grown accustomed to watching movies vicariously through random clips and piecing entire films together in my mind as time goes on. I have no desire or need to watch with her. I’m not much interested in the content of most films, and I can count on my wife to watch the same film multiple times so I know I will eventually gain a good idea of the plot over time. This distinct arrangement all came to an end with the pandemic and the stay at home mandates and business lockdowns. I have written here about my self-awareness of being essentially gay, being ‘out’ to myself, internally for as long as I can remember. It was easy to accept my orientation solely within myself when my wife’s pre-pandemic interaction with me was so limited. Now it’s not so simple. I have mentioned here about a friend I have, who I have said I love him. It’s the only way, the simplest way, for me to convey my thoughts and feelings about him. There is another guy who is also a friend, but not in the same capacity. I can say of him that he is one of the nicest, sweetest guys I know, but he’s different, my thoughts and feelings for him are different. On a different level.
    I’m so glad that both of these guys are in my life right now. They have truly made this trying period at least bearable for me. And they have each given me the opportunity to be out to someone in addition to myself. From a broad perspective, it’s not much, but it’s a conscious deliberate step for me. In their own ways, I owe each of them — big time, a lot.
    And to you here at EC, I have so quickly learned that there are so many more of you out there like these two guys, each of us different in our own ways, but willing to share our journey and experience. Thank you.
     
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  14. Bastion

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    Am glad to hear of your experience and journey. You also seemed to have found and made good friends that helped in a way and supported you as well as the good people of EC. May the road ahead be greener still.
     
  15. quebec

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    old tacoma.....You should be able to click on your current mood just under your avatar. which should bring up a list of choices. Scroll down a bit and you'll find "Fine". At least that worked for me...hope it works for you too! :old_smile:
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
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  16. Nickw

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    Hey @old tacoma

    I've been reading your posts. I am happy for you that you are beginning to develop close relationships with other gay men. I think that is one of the most important things to do as we discover, or re-discover, our sexuality.

    But, I can't help but also notice a bit of resentment directed towards your wife in all this. I may be misunderstanding this. I apologize if I am. But, I know that as I was discovering the same issues, prior to coming out to my wife, it was really easy to begin to think of her as the "enemy of my sexuality". At one point, on this forum, I suggested my wife "held the keys to my sexuality". One poster here, took me to task over that. "How can your wife be an enemy to something she is unaware of".

    You may not have gotten to that point yet. But, I have discussed with other gay and bi men this very issue. And, it is not uncommon to begin to try and distance ourselves from our wives before coming out. It does make it seem easier. I don't believe it does. I harmed my wife by beginning the process of separating from her just in case things didn't work out when I finally told her. This was the lowest thing I can recall having done in my life. But, it is easy to fall into that trap a bit at a time.

    I've learned that I need to really practice that motto of "doing to others as you would have others do to you". That includes letting our wives know what we are going through and why we are becoming distant. We need to do this on our own time and schedule. But, we also need to consider our spouses.
     
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  17. old tacoma

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    Hi, @Nickw — Thank you for your reply. I have tried here several times this morning to reply to you, but I just can’t seem to express what I want to say. I’m feeling overwhelmed today. What I can say is this, if this were only about my sexuality, it would be easier.
     
  18. old tacoma

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    A lot easier.
     
  19. Nickw

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    Hey. Not expecting a response. Just wanted to toss this out there...
     
  20. old tacoma

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    Thanks... There are many days like today that I just want to say, “I’m done.” The immediate impetus rarely has anything to do with my sexuality. My brother in law commented to me recently, “I don’t know how you’ve managed to stay with my sister all these years.” I just looked at him and shrugged.