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What to do...

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by old tacoma, Nov 2, 2020.

  1. old tacoma

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    Hi, I’m sitting here at the dining room table, pondering what to do. I have been over this in my mind every day for months, getting close to a year now. Through an online article I read, I found out about EC today. So here I am, looking around...
    I’m a married man in my 60s who, to all outsiders, has had success in life. Yet, despite the appearances, I feel like a failure. I know objectively I’m not a failure, but that is how subjectively I feel.
    I am in love with a man but he does not love me in return, and I am married to a woman but I do not love her in return. The Bonnie Raitt song, “I can’t make you love me” comes to mind. Any advice?
     
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  2. JessNC

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    Hi, Old Tacoma. Glad you found EC and thanks for sharing your situation. If you are like me, it is a surprise to be in one's sixties and wrestling with these kind of things. 61 here, 30+ year marriage, professional success, enjoy my family, and now fully aware of my attraction to men. Leaving out a few details (hah) but suffice it to say I have an idea of what you are thinking and feeling while sitting at the dining room table. Are you keeping things private at this point?

    Btw, spent a few years in Tacoma as a young person.
     
  3. old tacoma

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    I am keeping things to myself at this point. I have told my wife about him, in as much as I walk with him now and then (about once a week.) But I have not told her how I feel about him. He knows how I feel about him. But he is a player, gay and out his whole life. I’m slowly trying to find my way in the aftermath of a life altering experience.
     
  4. JessNC

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    May I assume the experience you reference involved your gay friend? My situation involved being rocked by sex in a way I had never experienced with women and at the same time being comfortable with my body and desires in a deep way. These are not the kind of things that one takes lightly but they are certainly disruptive to my "normal".
     
  5. old tacoma

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    Yes, what you wrote is precisely what has happened to me. It’s now as though there’s no denial inside me anymore. I have come out to myself. I have come out to this particular gay friend. Yes, we had the most intense sex I had ever experienced, it’s true. Even more so, I had been able to open my heart and soul to him, to have an emotional intimacy I had never known before. But I think it scared him. If I understand him correctly, the sex is for fun, it’s a diversion. The intimacy is on another level. And he admitted we shared both together. That is, until a previous boyfriend returned into his life, and he told me that he could not sustain two relationships at the same time. He would feel that he was cheating. I continue to see him regularly, as a walking companion. But I must respect the limits he now has set “for now,” as he says. I have been thinking of getting counseling. A gay acquaintance of my wife happens to be a clinical psychologist, and I have thought of asking my wife for his number, but I don’t know how to answer her inevitable question, “Why?”
     
  6. JessNC

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    I have made significant progress in therapy with an LGBTQ aware/affirming therapist. And it has been liberating being able to speak of my sexual and gender concerns without having to hold back or fearing judgment. It may be as much my own mindset at this point in life but I think knowing the therapist is not trying to fix me or needing to put labels on me has helped me understand myself in new ways. I'm not great on advice, but you may want to look for a therapist that isn't connected with you or your family. I looked up therapists on the Psychology Today web site and found someone that matched my particular interests in an adjacent town.

    The dynamic you describe with your friend sounds familiar. Its not easy finding a match regardless of one's orientation or identity. And I imagine someone who is out dealing with someone not so must have its own difficulties.
     
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  7. Nickw

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    Hey @old tacoma

    Have you told your wife that you have same sex desires?
     
  8. old tacoma

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    No, Nickw, I haven’t told my wife about my same sex desires.
     
  9. quebec

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    old tacoma.....Hello and a very big welcome to Empty Closets! I'm thinking that seeing a therapist at this time is very important for you. I faced the same problem when I decided that I had to talk to a therapist...how to explain to my wife. I had just retired for health reasons from a job that I loved. I used health and retirement as reasons to see a therapist. Does that give you any ideas? You could possibly use your age and the changes that middle-age bring as a reason. Later on, I came out to her and she then knew that sexuality was also a reason. I don't know if any of this helps...but I hope so. I do know that talking to a therapist was one of the best decisions that I've ever made. I would also suggest that you check the CV of any therapist that you consider. Be sure that they list working with the LGBTQ+ community as part of their practice. In my case, my therapist is also gay so he really understands what I have gone through having gone through the same thing himself. Remember that you are a part of our LGBTQ+ Family and we do care! Please keep us updated on how this all works out for you...we're very glad that you have found us here on Empty Closets!
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
  10. old tacoma

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    Thanks, quebec Dave! I do appreciate you taking your time to share your insights.
    Let me run this by you, and y’all here on EC — When I ask my wife for the contact number for her clinical psychologist acquaintance, if she asks me why, I was going to tell her that I have been having a very difficult time dealing with 1) the covid situation, with its restrictions and lockdowns, and 2) the permanent loss of my job because of the economic fallout of covid. Both 100 percent true!
    My interest in contacting her acquaintance is for his recommendation. My wife and I have known him for 5 years, my wife thinks the world of him (they always sit together at dinner parties and social events, and chat online regularly). In my own conversations with him, I have come to think very highly of him as a health care professional. We even attended his wedding earlier this year (pre-covid). He is mature (50s), gay (life long), and my wife works with his spouse. I realize he is most likely too closely associated with my wife (and me) to accept me as a patient, but I’m confident in his recommendation. I’m also confident in his level of professionalism to be discreet regarding my additional concern. I’m just not ready to out myself to my wife. Your thoughts are appreciated.
     
  11. quebec

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    old tacoma.....Actually sounds pretty good. I think you're right about him being too close but he could very likely give you some good recommendations. It's probably going to be important that you make it clear that you need to talk to someone about sexuality. I don't know if that means you need to come out to him or not. You may need to evaluate that as you talk to him. Good luck and please keep us updated!
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
  12. Nickw

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    Hey @old tacoma

    @quebec has provided a lot of great advice about therapy. Before I came out to my wife, I found a therapist. It was very helpful. I told my wife that I was feeling a lot of stress and needed to address it. She didn't even question it. Therapy is essential at this stage of your coming out process.
     
  13. old tacoma

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    So here I am walking home 2.5 miles from my friend’s house. We walked 8.46 miles together today. With the 2.5 miles to get to his house earlier, I easily got in my 10 miles for today.
    How did this happen? When I got up this morning, I decided to check an online site I am a member of. I noticed my friend was also online, so I sent him a text asking if he wanted to walk together. He said yes. I got myself mentally prepared. !!! Thanks to all of you here at EC !!!
    We had what I hope was a solid heart to heart talk. It certainly was for me. I’m reasonably confident it was for my friend too. I told what has been happening with me since the last time we walked together. Nothing was rushed since we walked together for 3 hours today. I told him about EC and what I have learned. I explained again how I feel about him, but with the additional insight I have gained here reading all these threads. (Special thanks to Chip!)
    We had some very serious and honest exchanges. We laughed again like we used to before. Eventually we walked back to his house and we discussed again about me fixing his mailbox for him. He invited me inside, something he hasn’t done in months. We discussed problems he has had with a toilet and a ceiling light/fan in his dining room. He said he managed to fix the toilet himself but couldn’t figure out the problem with the ceiling light/fan. Just took me a minute to diagnose the problem. I could tell he was grateful. I put my hand on his shoulder (as I had several times during our walk) and told him this is what friends are for.
    I should mention that our discussion while we were walking centered around me trying to come out. And how much he has been a part of that for me. I told him about what I had learned in just a few short days here on EC, and how I hope he and I can be one of the rare instances where two guys so clearly at different points in our personal sexual developments can each share our experiences openly and honestly. I told him that’s what has been hardest for me, not the lack of sex with him, it’s the friendship I feel I lost. He asked me all kinds of questions, and he explained to me his experience over the years.
    I’m almost home now, so I’ll close for now. If you have managed to read all the way to this point, thank you for your time!
     
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  14. Bastion

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    @old tacoma

    Welcome to EC. A lot of people in this section of the forum find themselves in similar situations. I did like four years ago and am still kind of in the middle of it. I did find a person like you. A friend that I did activities with. Things did not work out after that, we are not in contact anymore. I guess we reached a point of conflict of interest somehow. Maybe he was not the person I thought he was. Maybe it’s for the best I don’t know. It’s good you are still friends with the guy and you guys can talk about things. I can’t talk to anyone so I came here and with COVID things are looking bleaker than they should be. I did try a therapist once. She didn’t help that much. Maybe she wasn’t the right one. But most people here recommend that so I guess it can be good advice. I hope things get better.
     
  15. old tacoma

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    Hi, Bastion - thank you for your message. My friendship with him is lopsided. I am married, not out at all (except to him), at the beginning of the arduous process of finding my own authenticity. He has been an active gay man his whole adult life. My experience is limited to a limited number of encounters with an even more limited number of men. His experience runs the gamut from one nighters and groups to long term monogamous relationships. But beyond that, I have found we each have had serious events in our respective lives that have resulted in a common bond.
    From him, listening to him tell me his story, it is clear to me that I am gay. Whether I have always been gay could keep my mind spinning wheels for years. The signposts along my lifeline certainly gave me plenty of indications. I simply chose to ignore them in an effort to be ‘normal’ and ‘to fit in.’ But actually, what I’ve done is just that - it’s done. My finding of the EC site has been a huge help in a very short time. I can already notice the impact of EC in my conversation with my friend today, in the comfort and confidence I had speaking with him. If I overstepped yet again, this time I am prepared mentally, because I know what I shared is truly from my heart.
    Feel free to talk with me. I am not a professional, but I am a good listener and can share my perspective.
     
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  16. old tacoma

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    My wife baked chocolate brownies yesterday afternoon as a thank you gift for one of her coworkers. As usual, she made a batch way too much for one person. So she suggested I take some to my friend. (Fyi, my wife and my friend have not met.) I dropped off the brownies at my friend’s house around dinner time. Later in the evening, after I had gone to sleep, my friend texted me, raving about the brownies. When I woke up, I saw his text. After a few texts, we agreed to meet and go walking again today. I can’t remember us ever walking together 2 days in a row. I was really happy. Another long walk, and more great conversation. It’s so good to share with him what’s going on inside me, and hear his perspectives. These past 2 days of walking and talking with him, combined with what I have learned here on EC this week, have done wonders for me and my outlook. I have no illusions about what lies ahead for me, it’s not going to be easy, but I have a new found confidence in myself and who I am. I wrote in another thread and it’s true — I’m at peace with myself. And it’s a Friday afternoon. This has very personal significance for me, for my friend’s boyfriend comes every Friday evening to spend the weekend with him. And I have always taken that reality very hard. Oddly, not because I’m jealous of them from a purely sexual standpoint (from what I understand the boyfriend has performance problems), but from a broader intimacy standpoint.
    I’m not sure if any of this makes sense to any of you, but the bottom line is I’m feeling very much ok at the moment.
    PS — As we were parting in front of my friend’s house, I placed my hand on his shoulder again. I’m a physical guy, it’s my way to connect with someone in the most minimal, least intrusive kind of way, but yet to demonstrate my feelings. And he in return, he took me in his arms and hugged me.
     
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  17. Bastion

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    Thanks appreciate your reply. My situation is similar but am kind of torn about it and I find myself somewhat stuck because of obligation to my life partner, family and living environment. I don’t know if it’s possible to be two things to two people at once. I keep going over it in my mind. It’s not adding up because it’s somewhat radical and not accepted. It’s not a solution for most people. To me I probably can live with it because I accept myself the way that I am but other parties involved will be hurt someway or the other because I know they wouldn’t understand and they have a right to their perspective and opinion. So unless i reach a solution that is acceptable and livable for all. Or separation. Or just know the fact that am this person for now. I will be monogamous but there this other part of me that I can deal with in my own time in other ways that does not really include intimate contact with the other. It can be difficult and I don’t know how long it will be. But for now this is an option. Others are too complicated and will bring all sorts of conflicts internal and external. Am not ready to deal with that yet.

    How are you dealing with it. In regards to your marriage?
     
  18. old tacoma

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    At this moment, today, I am married. It is clear to me that I am gay, and probably always have been gay, not something that I came to later in my life. The similarity in the core sexual values of my friend and my own leads me to no other conclusion. But it’s in the choices I made contrasted with the choices he made that is the difference. He chose to live as a gay man because he is a gay man. I chose to live as a straight man despite I am a gay man. As I wrote previously, I could spin my wheels for years as to why I made the choices I made, but that doesn’t change who I am. My friend and I talked about this just today. What I’m wrestling with now he wrestled with when he was 14-15 years old. It’s tempting to think ‘If only I had known xyz’ or ‘If only I had done xyz’ I would have had a better life, but maybe not, I’ll never know. My life up to this point is what it is.
    Going forward I foresee changes coming. I have not yet spoken with my wife. I hope it goes smoothly. Listening to myself talking with my friend is actually very good — my conversations with him are partly a rehearsal of a likely conversation with my wife, because in talking with my friend I am able to organize my thoughts into a coherent message. He’s not coaching me, he’s just listening and gives me his opinion. It means a lot to me, he means a lot to me. I have every intention of discussing my sexuality with my wife. I almost spoke about it over lunch today. But I want the moment to be a quiet moment when she is not preoccupied. It will happen, I have no doubt about it. Exactly when, I don’t know. But when that day comes, I will know it.
     
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  19. old tacoma

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    Taking a break in my day. Finished my walk. Just about ready for brunch. (I normally eat twice a day.) Reflecting back on a momentous week. I have learned so much here on EC! Mostly in terms of personal validation. I have always been “out” to myself internally. But I simply could not bring myself to express it externally, to family, to community. I had my first experience when I was in high school. With that experience, there was no question in my mind. It was not a one-off hookup. It was a friendship, a relationship with my best friend. But going our separate ways to college ended that very special time in my life. Then a lifetime of doing the right things, doing what was expected of me. All the while knowing who I am inside. Why? As best I can understand, it is tied to my upbringing — that the best way to live my life is through a life of service, that a life of service is honorable. Sacrifice of self for the benefit of others. To be continued...
     
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  20. Bastion

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    @old tacoma

    It is interesting and helpful to read your experience and thought process. And you present it clearly and unwavering. You are determined and have it well thought out and have a plan of action. And it’s good. It shows. I know it’s not easy changing your life. After this much time has passed. But if it’s for the best and if it’s going to make you happier. Then great. I don’t know if am actually conflicted about my sexuality or am just a bi person because am attracted to both sexes. Maybe it’s always been this way. But I feel it’s stronger these past three years.
    I apologize if I sound negative or in ranting mode. Sometimes I get a bit anxious.