1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tipping the Shame-Acceptance Fulcrum

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by out2019, Sep 28, 2020.

  1. Gayhusband

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    95
    Location:
    Tex
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
     
  2. Gayhusband

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    95
    Location:
    Tex
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    Thank you for sharing and caring. It’s tough as you say. It’s become all consuming. I’m out of the closet with my wife. She’s still denying that I’m gay. She’s accepted that I’m bisexual. My insistence on revealing that I’m more gay than ever is very difficult for her. It’s becoming easier for myself to accept what I know about my sexuality. She on the other hand is still in denial. It’s extremely difficult to see her like that. I’m going at it very slowly. She is trying to be understanding. She is supportive in very small doses. I understand the pain she’s feeling. It’s painful.
     
  3. out2019

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    737
    Location:
    us
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Yes. It freezes me.
    I never really tried to do this... or even considered that it might be possible! Yes the shame is mostly gone and the one person I have told I didn't have that fear.

    Yes, I fear negative reactions. letting people down. It's weird.
     
    Bastion and BiGemini87 like this.
  4. out2019

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    737
    Location:
    us
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I definitely have a major problem with self acceptance and self worth. I have never tried to do anything harmful- and very very far from that - - but constantly say "i hate myself' (not intentionally it just pops up)

    Part of me doesn't want to be and denies it.
     
  5. out2019

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    737
    Location:
    us
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Your words really made me think. At some point I have to realize none of those people are holding me back. It's me who 's living in fear. I can always 'try' and go back if I don't like it. But just to sit here in fear and at the same time think it's 'weak' to give in to being gay...

    Yes one problem is I always step back once anxiety hits. I have made some progress, but if its not steady I revert - but if made continuous steps..it might help
     
    BiGemini87 likes this.
  6. out2019

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    737
    Location:
    us
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I was rereading through this thread.....I really like this idea:
    When I have fear, i am only thinking about that.. -and what I will lose - hetero identity, a lifestyle i set up...I need to cultivate this!


    I never thought about this - thanks! I am actually being a more authentic and brave person when I am not in denial. Denial means i am giving into fear.

    A few years ago, I was afraid to even admit to myself I was gay, and even anonymously here I was in denial. So I have made some progress!


    Yes! I actually sort of put myself in a social 'torture chamber' when I am in denial.
     
    #26 out2019, Oct 21, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
  7. out2019

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    737
    Location:
    us
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I have been thinking about self acceptance and how important it is to move forward.
    Have I really accepted that I am gay? It seems like part of me is still in denial, partially because, I think because I haven't come to terms with what being gay means and how I fit that definition.

    The denial part of me thinks - oh gay is those guys in the parades, behaving and dressing in a certain way - but I haven't faced the fact despite a pretty good body of evidence, that I am gay. I still think of me as a straight guy who for some reason has these gay fantasies but they are not me. It may sound a bit nuanced, but I haven't accepted that I have homosexual feelings/desires for romance, physical intimacy and sex.
     
    itsuka, Frankie46 and BiGemini87 like this.
  8. BiGemini87

    Advisor Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2019
    Messages:
    1,485
    Likes Received:
    1,318
    Location:
    Pembroke, ON
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    The fact that you're saying this tells me you're well on your way to acceptance, though. You're showing a lot of self awareness, and I think that's a good thing; denial comes with the territory, but the fact that you see it for what it is means you've made a lot of progress already. :slight_smile:
     
    out2019 likes this.
  9. Contented

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,465
    Likes Received:
    2,321
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Out2019, what you are expriencing many of have as well. As the awareness of your homosexuality grows there is still forces in play that make it difficult to make that final leap to embracing the gay you. After all it means giving up "straight" priviledge. We are programmed by society to think that heterosexuality is the only real option. Fighting that is not easy however it is nescessary if you re going to find true happiness being the authentic you. I made all the jokes about homos, femmes and fags and laughed at all those weirdos just to fit in. Secertly wishing to be among them! As my homosexual journey progressed I too refused to identify as gay. I was totally involved both physically and emotionally with the man that became my first and only boyfriend and then partner and yet I contiuned to call myself straight. As time went on I decided to call myself bi because after all I wasn't a homo. However I was only lying to myself, I wasn't bi by a long shot. I had absolutely no interest in women only men. It took some time and work with a good LGBTQ therapist for me to finally acknowledge to myself that I was gay and liked being gay. It filled in me an empty space that I knew existed but didn't until then know how to address. As fate would have it those characterics that I made fun of in those "gay" femmeguys turns out be the very traits I found most attractive in my formr bf/partner. Further being with him allowed me to express some of those same traits in myself as I peeled away layers and layers of toxic masculinity and acres of destructive heteronormative programming. It seems you are doing the right things asyou work your way through some of these mine fields. Take your time, reflect honestly and find a counselor that can help smooth the path you are traveling on. Forward is the only direction open to us really!
     
    #29 Contented, Oct 23, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
    itsuka, out2019 and Frankie46 like this.
  10. out2019

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    737
    Location:
    us
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    It's hard to tell what's denial which makes it so difficult. I was walking down the street today and I looked at a woman's butt in yoga pants....I always used to tell myself, well,I do this so it means I am not gay, but today a thought flashed into my head..."you're not interested in her or women, you look at butts because it reminds you of part you like about men" and I felt strangely happy and content.

    Yes I think I am trying to hold on to this. After all I have created a whole identity and invested so much in it, and sometimes it almost seems like its exaggerated because I was secretly trying to deny my sexuality. But also a large part of me likes that identity.

    People always mention therapy but what exactly goes on that brings one to acceptance? Sometimes I think I won't accept it until someone tells me.
     
    BiGemini87 likes this.
  11. Bastion

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2020
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    North America
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Hey @out2019

    I can tell you must be on the right track. Because you are bringing into the light and acknowledging these difficult feelings and sharing them in this forum. It is not easy. This shows you are trying to get beyond them. It is good to try to identify and untangle those feelings before they amplify. It is also good to know what actually triggers them and then try maybe to dismantle them by turning the negative into positive.

    Try to separate what you do or think about desire and sexuality from yourself as a person. I mean don’t let only that define you. Just thinking about it, why should anyone’s sexuality be a burden or shameful when it should be good or fun or even better for their well being and happiness.

    Try to maybe embrace who you are rather than struggling to fulfill an outside notion of who you should be. But also don’t be too hard on yourself by thinking too much about stuff that it takes power over you. Just do what you want to do and make connections and surround yourself with like minded people.

    Also ask yourself do people outside the the lgbtq+ community like straight people feel guilty or shameful or in denial about their heteronormative sexual life. I don’t think so much. Why should anyone else?

    We are all human after all. Think about this way of looking at things by shifting your perspective.

    While am also going through some issues. And I don’t have all the answers for sure. I hope some of what am writing makes sense or is helpful somehow.
     
    itsuka, out2019 and Frankie46 like this.
  12. Frankie46

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    Nice words Bastion.

    Frankie x
     
    out2019 and Bastion like this.
  13. out2019

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    737
    Location:
    us
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I have tried to make all sorts of excuses for my sexual fantasies and causes for arousal. But one day I thought about it the other way.. if they were straight desires, would I doubt for a second I was straight? Would I tell someone, oh, that's just in your head, you're gay? Of course not. Yet that's what I do with my gay fantasies.

    I guess I am having trouble really, really accepting the fact that I am gay. I don't mean accepting a label, but accepting that I want to be with a man romantically and sexually, and if I don't accept it it's difficult to move on. I seem to go in circles...
     
  14. Bastion

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2020
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    North America
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Believe me I understand what are you are saying and I get how you are feeling. I do. But maybe there is a way that is simpler and less complicated. Maybe you don’t need to come out or identify as anything you are not comfortable with now. You can be attracted to both sexes, romantically or physically and you can also be a bi person leaning towards men or more attracted to men. Or gay if you like but don’t overthink it and just try to take the action that makes you happy. Let the chips fall where they may. You don’t have to necessary identify as anything. If you are attracted to men more than women now. Just go for it. And see how you feel. You can change your mind if you are not happy with that.

    What am trying to say is I think in my opinion there is no right or wrong in these matters. And the spectrum can accommodate a lot of people and their attractions or sexuality. So no matter which way you are accepted.

    Trust me if you think about these things too much. You will get into vicious cycles and circles as you said. It will not be helpful.
     
    out2019 likes this.
  15. Frankie46

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    Hi Bastion and out2019.

    I have really enjoyed reading this thread as a lot of what out19 says reflects in my life (albeit from the other side of the fence) . I am also stuck. I know I am gay but have an issue with the label and a level of shame. I am constantly stuck in a cycle of thoughts that are all consuming on a daily basis. One minute I can feel despair and sadness and the next minute I am alive with the excitement of possibility. I am hoping that one day the balance will tip and I can actually just accept ‘what is’ and move on.
    I have my first appointment with a counsellor in 10 days in the hope that this can help. Keep your fingers crossed and I’ll let you know if any progress is made.

    Frankie x
     
    out2019 likes this.
  16. Bastion

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2020
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    North America
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people

    Thanks @Frankie46 I do appreciate your post. Well I guess I joined EC same as other people to share, discuss, learn and sometimes vent. I have been and still going through struggles of similar nature as you guys. On some days i try to look at things in a positive light and view things in a different perspective. At others I withdraw and become a bit pessimistic and anxious.

    But I always have good intentions in mind that is to understand myself and others so we can better support each other.

    So far so good. I have learned a lot from different people in here in the EC community. For sure everyone’s situation and journey or struggles might differ a bit but we all are here because we need to talk about things concerning our sexuality.

    I know that Acceptance of ourselves is important. So is other’s acceptance of us. Non-acceptance, judgement, prejudice, negativity and sometimes hostility in others brings in me all the other feelings of anger, guilt, shame, that @out2019 and others talk about so if I were or anyone who’s going through a tough time try to develop maybe a thicker skin to try to live the way we want to live we may need to have a different mindset to tackle those issues.

    @out2019 I sincerely hope you find the acceptance you are looking for in your own way and time.

    Therapy might be a good option and might help a lot. if someone does find or has access to talented professionals that specialize in the specific matters or inquiries you want to discuss. I had two so far. Weren’t very helpful.

    @Frankie46 Best of luck with your counselor

    Keep us updated.
     
    Frankie46 likes this.
  17. out2019

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    737
    Location:
    us
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I need to accept my sexuality is real. It feels like I haven't.

    Some people say 'skip the label' but on the other hand, when I accept it I feel so happy! And it seems really owning it is a important step to self acceptance.

    Yes! When I accept that I am gay I feel very happy, and I start to think about the possibilities! But then this despair washes over. It's a crazy cycle.


    Good luck! I hope it helps.I am curious to try but it seems really hard to find a good therapist. People say it helps but I don't really understand how...
     
  18. Frankie46

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    Hey out2019

    My appointment is next week. I’ll let you know how I get on.

    keep in touch.

    Frankie x
     
    out2019 likes this.
  19. Contented

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,465
    Likes Received:
    2,321
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Out2019:
    Good luck! I hope it helps.I am curious to try but it seems really hard to find a good therapist. People say it helps but I don't really understand how...[/QUOTE]
    What sometimes happens as you start the process of coming to terms with your same sex attraction you start to reach paralysis by analysis when left to your own devices. A therapist will not provide you with answers but will help you frame the important questions you must ask yourself without the prejudice of your personal experiences and outlook. A therapist is not a panacea but merely a tool to help direct your thinking into areas that allow you see the truth of your situation, the true nature of your feelings and finally help guide you on a path where you can make those informed and intelligent decision on your sexuality. A therapist serves as a guide but in order for therapy to be effective you must do the work. My therapist was skilled in LGBTQ issues and being gay himself, I felt he better understood my perspective as he helped me come to terms with my homosexuality and my deeply hidden desire to live openly as a gay man. It’s been 3 years and I still see him although less frequently now. He helped deal with the breakup of my relationship with my bf/partner. I highly recommend finding a skilled therapist, with a little research they are easy to find.
     
    out2019 likes this.
  20. Snowqueen

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2017
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    Somerset
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    When you finally accept your gay destiny, you will gladly kiss your past life goodbye, being a gay man is amazing and so liberating.
     
    FooFight54 and out2019 like this.