So...Theophobia?

To the OP: Good job on expressing your opinion. To me that's what's important in this world, not the idea of organized or unorganized religion.

---------- Post added 6th Feb 2011 at 04:24 PM ----------

I actually got into an argument over religion with a good friend of mine. She asked me if I believed in God, and if I believed in Hell, yes to the first, no to the second. She asked me why, and I explained that I just don't believe that there is this place where people could go to suffer all eternity in because I don't believe that God would let his children suffer through never-ending torment. She got all pissy though because I was saying that the Bible is a load of crap because it's such a contradictory thing.

 

So you think it's okay for religious people to preach in the public places about the general immorality of man kind, and all the evil gays and lesbians bring to the world?
Sometimes, mere words are more powerful than violence or physical harm.
Plus, if I were interested in finding more about god and whatnot, I would have gone to Church long long time ago. I do not need some religious zealot to tell me to believe in heaven almighty who will bring eternal salvation, when I'm waiting for a bus in the morning to school, or bringing laundry back to my home (all of which really did happen to me!)

To me, I just don't care if someone believes in god or other religious stuff. I went to catholic school so most of my highschool friends are catholics, go to church and stuff. But they don't obnoxiously and explicitly express their point of view and their beliefs to other people, and also they are okay with people who don't believe in what they believe. And that's totally acceptable to me as well. What I have problem is people trying to convince other people to believe in something.
Hence the reason why I'm super pissed when religious matters are brought into public issues. I mean, did they ever thought for a second that not everyone in this fucking country is not catholic, or christian, or even religious?

 

Good points. I think that is important to remember, most Christians, don't go to church every week, but believe in general Christian principles. They don't have evangelical TV shows or spend money on them. Instead the vast majority quietly go about their lives believing what they do, and any out-reach they do is usually donating to thier church/christian charities or volunteering at either their church or in the local community.

As for religious issues into public issues. Despite their being a 'seperation of church and state', whether officially or unofficially, in most Western countries, this does not remove the religious organisation's right to participate in democracy, much like any other organisation. Frankly, democracy, rightly or wrongly promotes the beliefs of the majority, not the minority. So, while there are 'rules' in place in most Western countries to protect the minorities, the majority largely has the right to govern and impose what it believes on everyone.

And frankly in almost all Western Countries those that say they belong to a religious faith generally out number, often far outnumber, those that don't.

So if the majority believe that their religious beliefs affect how they think about a 'public issue' then democracy supports them.

As Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

 

Well if you are watching TV and you dont like an particular tv channel and you find it offensive, all you got to do is say you is just turn the channel. Thats the same with preachers in the street and just avoid them and if one approaches you, all you got to say is you are not interested.

If one finds it offensive they can also argue or debate them or do an counter protest if its an protest march. Thats the same with KKK rallies. I hate them but I dont believe they should not be allowed to have their own rally.

 

We live in an democracy everyone has the right to speak and everyone has the right to dispute or disprove the rhetoric. And if anyone says there are disadvantages to free speech and if there is speech they do not like is banned than any speech may be banned at any time.

 

well what I said earlier as long as they dont incite violence to others or bring physical harm.

---------- Post added 7th Feb 2011 at 11:10 AM ----------

besides another point here is just because you dont agree with what they are saying, does not mean they dont have the right to say it. That's like saying, Knowing that people are down the street praying to God and believing in the bible disturbs me, so I think they shouldn't be allowed to do it. You can censor everything that bothers people, we would be left with NOTHING. Everything is offensive to somebody, EVERYTHING.

 

Well the KKK is classified as an hate group however the bulk of the people think they are idots and they are subjected to ridicule when they protest. If people are stupid enough to join the KKK and then go to an rally, then observers at the rally would see such idiots they are. The KKK is not an threat as they used to be and they are no real threat thesedays.


I do not have the right to tell people what to say and feel if I find them offensive.This is not Iran or some theocracy everyone deserve freedom even the prejudice morons.

---------- Post added 7th Feb 2011 at 12:01 PM ----------

Anyway hate speech doesn't always lead to violence. If a person has it in their head that they are going to act out physically against an individual, they are going to do it whether they can speak about it or not. As much as I truly hate what homophobics say about us, they are just as much as citizens just as we are, and thus should have the same rights of speech as we do.

 

It is the freedom of speech here that gives the gay and lesbian community the right to protest and fight for equal rights. Why in the world would we want to deny anyone else their opinion when we so vocally voice our own? It's hypocritical and ridiculous. We have been fighting for so long to have the ability to speak about the issue, and then to turn around and say others couldn't speak their minds AGAINST us would not only be a step backwards, but it would also prove to everyone just how right they were in the first place.

 

This scares the hell out of me. The last thing I want is the government believing it has the mandate to decide who and who can't have freedom of speech in our society and where and when they can have it. Frankly, if the United States were this way, I think the majority in the US Government for most of history would have been in favour of banning Gay Rights Groups from voicing their opinions in public places, as not "contributing to the harmony". If this were true where would we be today? Sounds awfully like China to me and scares the hell out of me.

 

I think it really depends on how you interpret the "freedom of speech". Personally, I am conflicted about this idea of freedom of speech, because on the one hand, I think it's just not right to spread hateful words and ideas (such as what KKK, extreme religious groups...etc do). On the other hand, if people weren't allowed to voice their own opinions, no matter how "radical" (again, depends on how people define "radical", as I'm sure some religious conservatists would consider pro-gay rights arguments, or pro-choice arguments as "radical" and "inflammatory" on their standard) these opinions are, then it's sort of like a censorship. I suppose I wish people could civilly talk about issues, instead of simply shouting, for instance, things like "fags should die", on the streets; I just think that's very unreasonable and hateful way to voice their own opinion.
But I suppose, if we take into consideration how gay activists were allowed to voice their opinion about gay rights and such (or other minority groups as well, such as women (back in the days), or racial minorities), then it's only right for groups like religious conservatives (prime example is WBC) or any stupid radical groups can voice their opinions as well. But then again, gay rights argument are fundamentally different from, say, arguments from KKK or WBC. To me, the latter group only speaks about hate, violence against people. And that doesn't sound right to me at all...
Also if you ask me, I think the arizona shooting that happened recently was partially contributed by the volatile and hateful nature of expressing one's opinion from extreme right (or left as well, I suppose). I mean, nutjobs like Glen Beck and Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh are hardly expressing their opinions in a civilized manner. They are literally inciting hate and ignorance to people who are willing to listen to them.
Bah, this post got way long. :dry::dry::dry::dry:

 

well the last time the government used the Hitler card was comparing Hitler to Saddam in order to rally the population to support the invasion of Iraq. Well most Americans now agree that the fear of Saddam was exagerated.

Yes I agree the world should not forget about the consequences of Nazism but this is 2011 and not 1938. We live in an socieity where the individual can freely be himself/herself and form his or her own values and to freely protest against the government or fight for an cause. In Nazi Germany people were forbidden to protest against the goverment and people there were like robots and not thinking for themselves and just only conforming to the way the government wants them to be.

Anyway the USA was founded on protest demostrations such as the Boston Tea Party. Even many nations out there was founded due to protests.

 

I think the way to look at it is we are sentient beings that were plopped onto this planet in one way or another without any explanation to why we are here or to what the nature of the world is. It is understandable that people would look up at the stars and the life around them and conclude there's something behind it. Some consciousness or group of consciousnesses responsible for making them different from all the animals around them, and of cource there is something whether it's living or just a natural process.

Each society would gradually work out what it concidered as right and wrong, become "civilised", develop it's own culture and 9 times out of 10 form a religion to coincide with their morals, ethics and to explain what their purpose in life is and what will happen to them after death. To represent their hopes and their fears. Then as the previously isolated societies began to meet some beliefs would clash and the less peaceful would not be willing to give them up without a fight, ending in conflict.

I find that religion is a very old idea but still very relevant and a part of us, like a side effect of curiosity, people will often change religion to one which best coincides with their own personal theories/beliefs and ethics. Though science and religion are very similar in that they are based on what we can, and sometimes can't percieve the difference is that science was not influenced by perception of right and wrong (normally or so that is the point anyway) and should be based entirely on what we can see/find out for ourselves, and now more people are becoming content with the extent of explanation science can provide, while as religion, which has always been very biased, is in many areas of the world becoming less popular.

Though I may not believe everything that is "supposidly" explained by science (since alot of it is just theories that are taken for granted since they seem to fit) I personally find that the principles of science is the right way to go about explaining the universe, DIY Religion. I think that a slow transition to belief in a more scientific approach is healthy but when if someones religion is thrown into doubt, it sometimes makes them doubt themselves and everything else, depression and hate. I think that now if a child was raised in a non biased environment, and was taught about what we know of how universe works, they would be content with that outlook and perhaps curious to learn more. Basicly I think religion can be good and bad, and science isn't all that different of an approach, sometimes people like to have them coincide.

 

I am definitely not a fan of religion. Almost everyone who is catholic or christian, except a few small groups, gives some money at church services or tithes or w/e they are called. This money goes to the church who tries to force their opinions and views on politics and other people.

Religion often uses indoctrination and fear to get many people to follow or hold on to the faith. I do not like people who teach their children to follow a religion. Wait until they are the age of reason and they can decide for themselves. Don't indoctrinate them.

Also, handing out pamplets etc really bothers me. Unless it is some unknown cult who actually has good ideals, if it is christianity, mormon, muslim, etc, I KNOW ABOUT THE RELIGIONS, I am exposed to it, if I was interested, I would look into it. Don't bother me to join. Don't ask me to join. If I want to, I will come to you. Don't make me want to avoid walking by a certain area because I know you will harrass me.

There's also many cults and extremists who twist religion and do horrible things.

A lot of religious people are also biggots, and, directly affecting me, hate homosexuals and use lot's of money (who they get from average people) to deny me of my rights.

So anyone who gives money to the church, unless it is a RARE church who are accepting and don't try to preach to others, is affecting me and my quality of life.

Too many religions try to get into politics and, religion should be a personal thing.

If you keep your religion as a personal thing then it's fine with me.

I don't judge people for being religious, but I feel like the type of people who are extremely religious, should take some time to contemplate things by themselves instead of just doing what they are told.

Anyways, other than my religious rant, I think avoiding religious people isn't being a theophobe, I think you just may not like them... unless you judge them for being religious before getting to know them, that would be wrong. But if they are someone who pushes their beliefs on you then you're in the right...