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Overcoming denial and shame

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by Searching2022, Aug 27, 2022.

  1. Searching2022

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    I recently concluded after posting here that I am gay, but I don't know if its really helped me because I am overwhelmed with shame and guilt and I don't think I can ever 'come out' and the whole thing seems overwhelming and insurmountable.

    Also part me says I would have realized I am gay a long time ago if I really was.
     
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  2. Isbjorn

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    What you are feeling is normal. At least it was to me. It took me a long time to accept myself, but once I did, I was so much happier. There is truly nothing wrong with being gay, I know with me I had a lot of internal homophobia. The not to funny part is that I was and still am very accepting of others being LGBTQIA+, but was not of myself. I figure most of that was society and how I was raised. As far as how I was raised, I think it was more of ignorance than malice, but it was homophobic nonetheless. There are many other causes as to why we are so hard on ourselves for being LGBTQIA+.

    I believe that this is a product of internal homophobia. I was in denial a long time and FINALLY realized I was truly Bisexual and then it took even longer to accept it. I FINALLY accepted it at 51 years old. I realized I was probably Bi throughout my life, but suppressed it so much I was in denial and did not accept it.

    That turmoil nearly was the straw that took my life. There were other things, of course, but this was something I could control. Basically telling the world (or my perception of the world) to F-off, and be ME!

    Peace!
     
  3. quebec

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    Searching.....Of course you are the only one who can really determine if you are gay or not. If you really are gay I can promise that fighting it will only lead to hell. I was out for a few years in my late teens and early twenties, then a tragedy made me turn my back on my sexuality completely. It was such an emotional catastrophe that I even managed to force myself to forget that I had ever been out or that I was gay. I know that sounds impossible, but the human mind is capable of some amazing things. I got a job in the field that I had my degree in and ended up finding a girl I could live with, got married, had three kids and then grandkids and all was well. NOT. Something was always wrong. Sex with my wife was nearly impossible most of the time. I did want kids, so I forced it. I did love (like) her, but not in a sexual way. We were a good pair and as of last July 1st have been married for 44 years. The depression started soon after we married. It just kept getting worse and I didn't really know why. Self-hate...there must be something wrong with me I thought. Guilt because I wasn't what I thought other husbands were and I couldn't find a way to fix it. I always notice guys...but it was because I liked the way they dressed or their haircut, etc. There was always a reason. It wasn't until around the 1990's or so when the LGBTQ Community became more and more visible that things slowly began to make sense. At first it was, no I'm not gay, that's not possible...I have kids and I'm married! Then It was OK I'm straight but with a kink for guys sometimes. Accepting that I might really be gay would mean a disaster for my family and I couldn't let that happen. After several years it had become obvious that I was without a doubt, gay. That acceptance left me with a conflict of being totally unable to come out to and destroy my family or being unable to continue as I had been. I opted for suicide instead. December 25, 2014 was the night of my final crisis. I had recently found Empty Closets and made a desperate plea for help before taking an entire bottle of pain pills. The wonderful people here on EC came through for me that night and stuck with me through that crisis. Many things in my life have changed since then...which is another story. (I'll share if you wish) The whole point of all of this is to point out what happened to me when I tried to ignore the fact that I am gay. My situation was due to a death the completely devastated me, but the outcome of depression, self-hate and guilt are the same. Trying to ignore who we really are is a recipe for disaster. So please think carefully about how you handle your decisions concerning your' sexuality. If you are straight and want to be that way...wonderful! If you really are gay, you need to think long and hard about how to deal with that and I promise that trying to ignore it will not work. You can give yourself time to work on this. There is most likely nothing that requires you to make a decision this moment. As a matter of fact, thinking it through, weighing the pros and cons and considering how your life would change if you were to live as a gay man is an excellent idea. What you need to avoid is simply to ignore what you know you are feeling...that does not work. One of the real problems that happens when someone starts to realize that they may not be straight is something that we call "The Stages of Grief". I'll make a second post here and attach those for you to consider.
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
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  4. quebec

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    Searching.....Here are "The Stages of Grief"

    Stage One: Denial

    This first stage happens immediately. People can express themselves as "shocked." "I had no idea..." "This can't be."

    Yourself: "I'm not really gay." "I don't dislike girls." "I've never been with a guy." "I don't think I'm gay." "I will feel straight if I have sex with a girl." "I've never had sex with a guy, therefore, I'm not technically gay."

    Parent: "No you're not." "No one in the family is gay, and you're not either." "You don't act gay." "You don't know what you're feeling." "Have sex with a girl and you won't feel that way anymore." "You're confused." "You need therapy."

    Wife: "You're not the man I married." "You're stressed/tired/angry." "You're in mid-life crisis." "You're too manly to be gay." "Let's get therapy; I know you're not gay." "You have sex with me, thus, you're not really gay."

    Stage Two: Anger
    The second stage is a downer for those coming out. Once the trauma of coming out is over, and you think the coast is clear, the parent/wife enters the anger stage. How much anger, when they enter, and when they get over this stage is dependent of many factors.

    Yourself: "I hate myself." "I hate being gay." "I hate gays." "Why the fuck me?" "What did I do to deserve these feelings?" "Jesus! Why can't I love her?" "I want to be like X!!!" "I'm such a loser."

    Parents: "You're not sleeping with X are you?" "Don't you know there are dangerous diseases out there?" "Can't you just be normal?" "For God's sake, don't tell anyone else!" "Why did you tell me that?" "Don't come crying to me when you're life gets screwed up!" "Why didn't you tell me this before?" "Didn't you trust me until now?" "Would you have EVER told me this? (if outed)"

    Wife: "Why did you marry me?" "You lied to me!" "Why did you fool me?" "What did I do to deserve this!?" "You'll pay for this, mister!" "So, are you sleeping with X,Y, and Z?" "Who else knows?! Am I the laughing stock of town?" "You asshole." "Fuck you - oh no, you'd like that, wouldn't you?" "Couldn't you have figured this out before NOW?"

    Stage Three: Bargaining
    Bargaining is usually a welcomed respite from the Anger Stage. But, it can be equally annoying.

    Self: "I bet if I have sex with a girl, I'll find out I'm hetero." "Maybe I can get married, and have a fuck-buddy on the side that no one knows about but me. What would be the harm in that?" "If I don't tell anyone, then it's not really real." "God, if I promise to be good, will you make me straight?" "God, please make me straight. I'll do anything." "I bet if I lose weight and tone up, I'll be more attractive to girls and then I won't like guys." "I bet this will pass when I'm 20, no 30, maybe when I'm 40?"

    Parents: "Let me set you up with X. If you only had a girlfriend, you'd forget about guys." "God, I'll do anything if you make him straight." "I"ll buy you a car if you don't date boys." "Maybe we were too strict. If we relax our rules, will it make you feel more comfortable and feel like dating girls?" "I bet if you had more confidence in yourself, you'd feel more comfortable with girls. I'll set you up with a counselor/prostitute/assertiveness training class."

    Wife: "I"ll forgive you if you don't divorce me." "You can have your discrete fun on the side as long as it's safe and you don't leave me." "Look, honey, I bought this new lingerie. Isn't it sexy?" "If I lost weight/had a face lift/tummy tuck would you find me sexy again?" "Dear God, get him through this midlife crisis. I'll do anything." "We can have separate bedrooms and separate lives, just don't leave me alone."

    Stage Four: Depression
    This stage occurs when the preceding stages did not alleviate the grief, and the loss is not yet accepted. It is the brain's last-ditch attempt at not accepting the truth.

    Self: "I'm screwed." "I hate myself." "I'm not good at anything. I can't even make a baby." "Why am I here? What's the purpose of my life?" "My future is empty and hopeless." "I can't compete in the cut-throat gay world, I'm just not up for it." "I've ruined everyone's life around me, including my own." "I know I am going to burn in hell." "I want to die."

    Parents: "He's hell-bent on being gay. I'm helpless." "I guess if he wants to ruin his life and make me miserable, he's going to." "I give up." "I am so sad that I can not make him straight or be interested in girls." "I don't know what else I can say or do." "Why did I have children? Such heartache." "I can't imagine a future without grandchildren. What's the point of living?" "I thought I did better than that. Where did I go wrong?"

    Wife: "My life is over." "I will never love again." "I will never trust again." "How on earth will I cope?" "My future is empty." "I now feel nothing - for anyone." "I want to die."

    Stage Five: Acceptance
    At long last, we reach the final stage of acceptance. If achieved, depression lifts and anger subsides. This doesn't mean that we forget the sadness and anger, it means we don't feel it anymore.

    Self: "I'm gay." "I'm gay, and that's fine. Now what?" "I'm proud of who I am and the person I've become." "It's alright not to marry and have kids. I can contribute to society anyway - in other ways." "I am more than gay. My sexuality does not define me. I am 3-dimensional and have interests." "It's time to find a boyfriend." "It's time to get on with life."

    Parent: "OK, he's gay. I hope he finds someone who makes him happy,." "Have you found a boyfriend yet?" "How are you doing - really?" "I love you." "Be sure to tell X [boyfriend] hi for me." "I want you and X to come for dinner." "Tell me all about him." "I'm so proud of you." "I'm so happy for you." "You know what? His being gay isn't that bad. It's not like he's a murderer or dying or anything. Now, THAT would be tragic."

    Wife: "He's gay, but he's still a good person/father." "I need to let go." "I need to have a life." "Life goes on." "It's OK, we'll get through this together." "This is not a reflection on me - this is his issue." "That's the way he is; he needs to be happy." "I wish he'd figured this out before we got married, but sometimes it doesn't happen that way." "OK, my husband is gay. That's a reality. Now, what do I do?"

    Finally...

    One thing to remember - or recognize - is that frequently we come out to others when we have gotten to Stage 5: Acceptance, ourselves. And, sometimes this has taken us years to do. Thus, we can't be impatient with those closest to us who just found out. It would be great if we could rush them through to the Acceptance stage, but we can't. The best we can do is anticipate these phases and help them adjust to this information, just like we adjusted.

    Lastly, this isn't advocating coming out. Many men get to the Acceptance stage, and do not share this information with anyone. And, there can be compelling reasons for doing so. Thus, this piece is not meant to get everyone to Stage 5 and then bring as many of your closest people around you through it too. Rather, it's offered as one theoretical perspective on how people deal with what they perceive as a "loss" and if it's helpful in your situation, then it was worth writing down.

    Good luck!
     
  5. BiGemini87

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    This a completely understandable and normal part of the coming out process. Like @quebec posted, coming out oftentimes involves going through the stages of grief (which the process, by the way, is seldom linear and we don't always go through the same stages as others, or can oftentimes cycle through them many time before reaching full acceptance), and denial sadly is one that's hard to break out of--and one you seem to be in.

    Of course, only you can determine for certain whether you're gay or not, but I posit that you likely are and that denial is where you currently reside, because moving beyond it (i.e. knowing you are gay and working towards acceptance) is frightening.

    You absolutely do not have to come out until you're ready, if ever. Coming out to others isn't obligatory, but merely a means of communicating who you are and what that means for your life, both present and future. If the only person you ever come out to is yourself, that is 100% okay, too.

    Take your time and above all, be kind and patient with yourself.
     
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  6. Searching2022

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    Wow I could have written some of these...
    Much as I don't want to admit it, I know I have had these thoughts and when I read this i immediately recognize myself in them..

    I am feeling a lot of this right now, combined with denial

    I realize I have been doing this too. If I just find that one girl I will be so attracted to her it will save me from being gay (But I am really not gay, I tell myself in the same thought)
     
    #6 Searching2022, Aug 28, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
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  7. Searching2022

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    I had a strange reaction to this - it immediately felt good to read it, like it is a truth I can't tell myself.
     
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  8. mnguy

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    When I read that, my first reaction was along the lines of, but I'd rather hang out with guys than women, especially if you can cuddle up with them, guys are the best! What's your thought?
     
  9. itsuka

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    Coming to terms with one's sexuality is a process, and if you're not straight (even then you can be confused), it's often more drawn-out, sometimes greatly-so. Internalized homophobia and fear are powerful drivers of denial, which is often insidious. I'd recommend just focusing on what you're heart is telling you prior to the thoughts of doubt and the consequent feelings of fear and anxiety. Just keep exploring your feelings, talking with others (online or in person), and being honest with yourself. If you can find a good therapist, that would be enormously beneficial to you, as what you're going through is a very monumental and difficult thing indeed.

    I hope that helps.
     
  10. quebec

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    Searching.....Something that I should have thought of and that @itsuka brought up is a therapist. It's not just a good idea, it's really, really important. Finding a therapist that works with the LGBTQ Family was one of the best decisions that I've every made. He happens to also be gay and therefore understood everything that I was going through as he had gone through it all himself. His help has made a tremendous difference in my life. You don't necessarily have to find a gay therapist, but you need to be sure to check the information that all therapists list about their practice and check that they list working with the gay community as part of their practice. There is so much that a good therapist can help you work through and learn to deal with. Often times things that you actually didn't realize were even there. I had things that I had basically brushed off as unimportant only to find out that they were the cause of some of my biggest problems! So seriously consider seeing a therapist. Sometimes you don't "hit it off" with the first person that you try and you may have to try several until you find someone that you feel comfortable talking to...don't give up as this is a very important thing that can help you so very much!
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
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  11. Tightrope

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    The stages of grief are helpful and seem time tested. I have heard about them in school, read about them in different places, and got to speak to a grief counselor when a family member was in hospice care.

    There is one important thing I remember that I wanted to share: they don't come in a neat order. A person can bounce backward and forward on the different stages in their journeys through grief.
     
  12. Bastion

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    @quebec has written a very good post about the stages. And coming to terms with your sexuality. So has some of the other advisors and posters. While I don’t have much to add to that but I can point you in the direction of material that might be useful to you.
    2 books come to mind. One is called “The Velvet Rage” by Alan Downs. And the other one that I talked about in my other thread and you asked about is called “Finally Out” By Loren A. Olson. I hope they may be of help to you and give you a more detailed perspective. They are both practicing psychologist/ psychiatrist.
     
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  13. Searching2022

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    Thanks everyone, I have been thinking about this, whatever I think I feel about women, my thoughts about men are way more intense. It's time to just be completely honest:
    I only sexually fantasize about men- I can get turned on thinking about just kissing a cute guy. No matter how hard I try I don't get turned on thinking about women.

    My fantasies are about giving blow jobs and receiving anal intercourse. I can get turned on imaging giving it. but if try to switch to a woman I think has a nice butt, it just fizzles out.
    as @itsuka says, I think fear and anxiety overwhelms me and maybe internalized homophobia.

    If I had no baggage, or unconsciously ashamed of being gay, if one of my fantasies happened I would be extremely happy... if someone else said this to me on this forum, I would tell them they are just gay and ashamed...

    I want to be happy about being gay.
     
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