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Losing the plot

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by razorsharp, Jan 2, 2022.

  1. razorsharp

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    I posted about this 2 years ago..
    Nearly 2 years later and I still have the same problem. No offence to you all but same gender attraction sucks. I tried therapy with a religious therapist (although it was not religiously themed) a year ago, that sucked too, no use at all.

    Unfortunately I still experience same gender attractions. It’s a sad situation. Marriage good apart from this curse. Such a nuisance. Any suggestions anyone before I go mad?!
     
  2. SevnButton

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    Hi @razorsharp -
    I'm no expert, but I can't think of anyone here on EC successfully suppressing their desires. It seems like people are more focused on discovering who they truly are, then figuring out what they want to do. It sounds like you are married and you want to stay that way. Do you have kids? Does your wife know anything about your same-sex attractions?

    There are at least a few of us here who accept that we are not straight, yet we are committed to our marriages and our families. That is not the path that everyone chooses. One thing that is really clear: there absolutely is not a one-size-fits-all solution for everyone in our situations, and individually we all have to make our choices.

    If I have any suggestion at all, it would be to keep posting. There are people here on Empty Closets who understand what you're going through. It's not good to struggle alone.
     
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  3. quebec

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    razorsharp.....I will agree with @SevnButton that there is not any one-size-fits-all solution to your situation. There are many folks here on EC that are in a situation similar to yours...married and discovering or finally accepting that they are not totally straight. I'm one of them. Finding a therapist that works with the LGBTQIA+ Community is a very good idea. However, there are very few to practically no religious-based therapists who will do this. Or if they do, they will try to guide you away from any hint of being LGBTQIA+ in your life. The job of a therapist is to help you find out who you really are and to discover what is holding you back from becoming that person (rough description). Every Christian therapist that I have ever heard of tries to direct the client to follow what a person should be according to their interpretation of the Bible. I am a religious person myself, so I do not have an axe to grind with Christians, as I am one. But that is what my experience with Christian therapists has been. Finding the right therapist is really important. Check out what they say about their practice. They should list working with the LGBTQIA+ community as part of their practice. Contact the closest chapter of any Gay rights or Gay support organization for information about therapists. I found one that is excellent and he has made a huge difference for me in the last few years! Something that is important to remember...we are born with our sexual orientation. That has been proved...there is no doubt. That orientation can not be changed. I tried to pretend that I was straight for a very long time and it only caused guilt, shame and depression. It was only when I accepted that I am and always have been gay that the guilt, shame and depression started to lift. The years since I finally accepted myself have been some of the best years of my life. My mental health is so much better than ever before and it's all because I've stopped trying to be something that I'm not. I've stopped trying to hide my big secret from everyone, I've stopped being careful of what I say or of who I look at. Accepting my self has truly freed me and I am happier now than ever before. Please keep us updated on how things go for you! Remember that you are part of our LGBTQIA+ Family, and we do care! :old_smile:
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
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  4. razorsharp

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    @sevn and Quebec. Thanks for your support. It is helpful posting, at least that’s something. I don’t believe that there is any evidence that anyone is born gay, and I’ve looked into it over the years.

    Regardless, the SSAs interfere with my life and the way I want to live it. It has had a negative affect on my marriage. My wife does not know and I have to keep it that way - it would hurt her if she found out. I haven’t told anyone apart from therapist. I’m from a strict religious background. It’s a sad, ongoing situation I’m afraid. I’m struggling to see a light at the end of the tunnel.
     
  5. old tacoma

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    @razorsharp
    Take it from an old guy. Your same gender attractions are not going to go away. The feeling may ebb and flow, you may have days of lesser or greater attractions, but your orientation is a core part of who you are, and will always be so.
     
  6. zgaynz

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    While I'm not married I too went through a period where I didn't want my same sex attraction but like others have indicated, it never truly goes away. While some have suspected, I'm not out to anyone who actually counts or is close to me to cause any issue. The anxiety and shame it caused over the years lead to a very unhappy life. The best thing I did for myself is to accept who I am. Acceptance didn't mean I had to tell anyone or even partake in the lifestyle, it simply was to stop the internal fighting and lying to myself that had been going on for years.

    I have no words of wisdom to help you supress your desires. I did for many years but I always slipped from time to time and found myself looking at gay porn to pander to my needs. I wish you the best of luck and hope you're able to work things out.
     
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  7. PatrickUK

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    Nobody can tell you how to successfully discard same sex attraction because nobody has ever succeeded in doing so. Even if you don't accept the idea that we are born this way it does become a hard wired part of who we are and that's why we always urge people to work towards self acceptance in whatever shape or form it takes. Religious therapy never works, because it's essentially working against God, rather than with God. I don't know of anyone who has had their prayers answered in trying to rid same sex attraction from their lives. Maybe we should pause to ask ourselves why that is, if it's really such a curse.

    I have come to believe that it's easier to go through religious deconstruction (unlearning the doctrinal messages of shame) than it is to attempt a change to our sexuality. Religious deconstruction is possible, changing our sexual orientation isn't. Maybe that could be a way forward for you?
     
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  8. Unsure77

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    I successfully dissociated and suppressed my attraction to women for roughly 30 years because I grew up Southern Baptist and realized as a kid I was a lesbian. But, my prize for having done that to myself is a generalized anxiety disorder diagnosis and years and thousands of dollars in therapy bills (that will be a "gift" for years to come). Doing that to yourself puts your nervous system on high alert all the time because you're constantly trying to not notice people you're attracted to and/or constantly worried someone will notice you noticing. It's neither healthy nor sustainable. Literally almost immediately when I stopped, I lost 40lbs and my blood pressure normalized...within months. 0 out of 10. Do not recommend.

    What I do recommend is for you to find a secular therapist with experience with LGBT people. I recommend you consider finding an lgbt affirming church (they exist) and switch to that. And then I recommend you read "God and the Gay Christian" by Matthew Vines (or you can find videos of him giving a talk on Youtube that sort of covers the same turf...the spoiler on that is that the Bible isn't so clearly against homosexuality as you might think when you start looking at it in the original languages), "Torn" by Justin Lee, or "Undivided Heart" by Vicky Beeching. (For sure Matthew Vines). I would watching "Untangling the Mess" on Youtube which is a talk about how the word "homosexual" came to be in English translations of the Bible. Fun fact: It wasn't there until 1946 and the folks who added it there later admitted it had been a mistake. You've been torturing yourself over a mistranslation by some committee in 1946.

    Then I would stop and ask yourself a few questions: How much did Jesus talk about homosexuality? (if you don't try to do any gymnastics to put words in his mouth). How many times did Jesus talk about it at all? Jesus' emphasis was loving God and your neighbor. That was his criteria for sin. So, in that context, ask yourself why homosexuality WOULD be a sin? Most things directly identified as sin in the New Testament have someone it harms. Lying, stealing, murder, gossip, cheating on a spouse...those all have people who are harmed. In and of themselves, those acts hurt people. Who exactly does being queer harm (if you ignore the actions of homophobes)? In a world where you just have a gay couple minding their own business and loving each other and living their best gay life...who are they hurting exactly? If you back up and look at it logically, does it make sense for the Bible to have actually labeled it as a sin (given it's a victimless "crime")? Or does it seem more probable that something is off there?

    There are some things about you that would be good to change and revisit. You being lgbt is not one of them.
     
  9. SevnButton

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    I suspect there are people who have managed to set aside their same-sex attractions. I believe that because it's basically what I did for decades. Meanwhile, family and career were higher priorities for me. I don't think you'll find those people here, because I believe they have rejected the fundamental principles of authenticity and acceptance that Empty Closets embraces.

    Whole organizations have been built up around the idea of disavowing same-sex attractions. Lots and lots of people want to, and they're willing to try. Exodus was such an organization. Ultimately it collapsed (see "Pray Away" on Netflix).

    @razorsharp , no one should tell you what to do. All they should tell you is what has and hasn't worked for them. I admire and respect your Devotion to your family. I sincerely hope you find your way through this quandary in a way that truly nurtures your well-being while also attending to the needs of your family.
     
  10. BiGemini87

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    Hello, @razorsharp. I'm sorry to say, but repressing your same sex attraction isn't going to work. Whether it starts at birth or occurs later on, it doesn't much matter; sexual orientation is an immutable characteristic, and not one that can truly be changed. There are people who go through conversion therapy (some even willingly) and think they are no longer gay/bi--but in truth, they are; the only thing they've succeeded in doing is suppressing their true feelings/urges. In the end, these urges/attractions/desires always return, and regardless of anyone's belief system, there is nothing sinful about it.

    I know this may be difficult, coming from your religious background and place of faith, but perhaps rather than viewing your attraction as a sin, try to see it as a blessing. It allows you to view the world through a different lens, one not only unique to others like you, but to you yourself--for regardless of our commonalities, we all experience the world and life differently. Your attractions harm no one, and if you weren't meant to be attracted to the same sex, you wouldn't be; it would be cruel and twisted for the God you believe in to bestow something like that upon you, and expect you to suppress it.
     
  11. justaguyinsf

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    Based on my own experience, which sounds similar to yours, I think that self-acceptance is the key to beginning to find some peace and healing. That doesn't mean you have to act on your feelings, but instead that you stop beating yourself up for your attractions and requiring them to be eradicated before you can be at ease with yourself. If you have a relationship with God, then take this struggle to Him, not for a "cure" but for peace and insight into how to this aspect of yourself fits into the greater scheme of things (aka God's will). If your faith is important to you and you want to go to a therapist, I would make sure the therapist understands the importance and psychological value of religious faith to believers. A therapist who diminishes or looks down on religious faith (as some of my therapists have shown through off-the-cuff slams about religion) probably won't be able to understand you and provide significant help.
     
    #11 justaguyinsf, Jan 3, 2022
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  12. Unsure77

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    I would point out that, if you watch Pray Away (or really any documentary, interview, or biography from anyone who went to one of those kinds of programs)…to a person, they all ultimately wound up having mental health problems until they finally accepted who they were. Every single lgbt person in Pray Away who was a part of those programs had serious issues. Most of the biographies you will see of lgbt people who tried to cling to conservative, anti-lgbt ideologies and suppress their sexuality wind up mentioning suicidal ideation. Everyone’s right. It’s your life, and your right. But, personally, I have yet to read or hear of someone having a positive long-term outcome trying to do that. The reason exodus international folded was because of their failure rate and the damage their were doing to people.

    I would also point out, just because you’re lgbt doesn’t mean you have to leave your marriage and live your gay life. There are several people on here who are lgbt who are married to someone of the opposite sex. You just have to work that out with your spouse. But, having a therapist who’s going to attempt to change your sexuality or shame you for it isn’t going to be helpful. You need to find someone who is lgbt affirming (whether they’re Christian or not). That doesn’t mean they’re necessarily going to try and break up your marriage or something. It means someone who understands reality and isn’t going to do you damage that some other therapist is gonna have to undo in 10 years.
     
  13. razorsharp

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    @Unsure77. I am actually Muslim not christian - a religion far less tolerant to homosexuality than Christianity.
    The therapist I went to was christian but there sessions were not based on any religious context. He said that my SSA was probably a result of early childhood trauma, anxiety and low self esteem. He said that if I could work on those, then the SSA should diminish. I did not find the sessions that helpful. It was just like going through the motions. A few years before this I also saw another therapist who said that he couldn't help me and that I should just accept who I am, and remain single if needs be.

    Fast forward a few years, I met my wife and marrying her felt like the right thing to do. I loved her (still do) and I underestimated my SSA problem. I thought that now that I am married, things will somehow fall into place. And for I while they did..the SSAs were not the dominant force they were until about a year into the marriage. The SSAs returned with a vengeance. This leads me to where I am today, a man struggling with my SSAs, resulting in a poor sex life in our marriage. This has also meant that because we do not have sex frequently, we are still childless. This is distressing to me and my wife. It's a sorry state of affairs.
     
    #13 razorsharp, Jan 3, 2022
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  14. Unsure77

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    Again, a lot of conversion therapy does and has tried to operate under the premise you’re describing. (That there’s something in your past to be “fixed” that would change your sexuality). It’s not based on actual science, and it doesn’t work. Thousands if not millions have tried. Again, it was one of the theories Exodus international tried to apply and they had something like 99% failure rate. You should read “Boy Erased” by Garrard Conley. It was a Christian group, but they tried to apply a similar theory to what you’re describing. You can’t forcibly change your sexuality. And, especially, if you’re not attracted to women, you can’t dissociate yourself out of that. Even if you could ignore men, it wouldn’t magically make you attracted to women. Again what you see time and again is people trying to fake it, and it’s never sustainable long-term. Regardless of the religion.

    You might as well ask us how you can grow 6 inches taller, and an adult. Your better bet is to try to find a way to make peace with who you are.
     
  15. Unsure77

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    Here’s the thing…by entertaining and putting energy into a bunch crackpot theories about how to change your sexuality (which they basically all are), all you’re doing and are going to do is make yourself feel worse when they inevitably fail. You’re going to convince yourself you didn’t try hard enough or you weren’t good enough. (When the truth is it never had any hope of working no matter what you did). That’s why those programs are so damaging. Because they just crush people’s spirit.

    The much better and healthier question for your to ask and work through with a GOOD mental health professional is “I’m not heterosexual, so now what? What do I do with this information? How do I best live my life going forward with that reality?” There are things you can control and there are things that you can’t. Your sexual attraction is something you can’t. So how do you work with that reality, going forward, to give yourself and your wife the best life possible? Those are productive questions to ask and work on. Not spending yet two more years trying to change the unchangable. You might as well spend two years trying to knock down a brick wall with a whiffle ball bat.
     
    #15 Unsure77, Jan 3, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2022
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  16. Nickw

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    Hey @ razorsharp

    I'm really sorry that you are caught in a situation where your religion contradicts with who you are. I won't diminish what this may mean to you. I can only say that I do know how that feels. Christianity is NOW more tolerant than Islam. But, for me, I understood, at a young age, that I could not practice as a Catholic with the knowledge that I was "sinning" with my same sex desires. At the age of 21, I went through a time where I was depressed and, at one point, nearly suicidal. This was 40 years ago and the Catholic Church was very unaccepting of homosexuality. So, I broke with my religion. My family rejected me for a year and I didn't speak to either of my parents. During this time, I met my wife (I'm bisexual) so I was able to move forward and create a life devoid of my previous faith. It took some real effort but I eventually made my peace with God without the benefit of man's religion.

    As difficult as it was for me, I understand your situation is even more difficult. Eventually, my wife and I were able to work with my sexuality within the marriage. Being gay will make this more difficult. But, you really need to consider what remaining in your marriage, in its current status, is doing to your wife. We all deserve to be loved completely. I am not advocating that you immediately come out to her. Only that you consider that your same sex attraction will not go away and may become more intense. You are going to need to include her in making the decision how to move forward. You may be surprised at how she responds. She may even be aware of your sexuality.

    As others have mentioned. Accepting your sexuality is the most important thing for you to work on right now.
     
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  17. PatrickUK

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    In all honesty, it doesn't matter that you are a Muslim rather than a Christian, because the doctrine of shame is often predicated around the same passages and narrow minded theology. For example, it's often asserted (in Christianity, Islam and Judaism) that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed as a result of God's displeasure with homosexual practices, but is that really correct? Even if we accept the premise that this story is a factual account of history, rather than a moral story common to the Abrahamic traditions, a closer reading will reveal that it's nothing to do with same sex attraction or consensual same sex intimacy. In the Quran, just as in the Bible, sexual relationships between men were always concerned with asserting dominance, control and power and it's against this idea that God is supposedly repelled, but none of this applies to the standards we set for ourselves in the 21st century. In 2022, we don't find ourselves attracted to people of the same sex in order to harm, subjugate or otherwise control them. That's not how modern, intelligent people think or behave - is it?

    Almost all moral and religious arguments are based around a distorted concept of same sex attraction and love and most religious therapists are stuck in this mindset themselves. Once we unlearn that doctrinal rubbish, we can begin to build ourselves up and move forward towards self acceptance. This is the key.
     
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  18. razorsharp

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    I disagree that the scriptures don’t really forbid homosexuality. However, I’m not here to debate about this.

    Most people who experience SSA experience some degree of anxiety, regardless of their religious beliefs. It’s not that I don’t accept them, I just find it difficult to manage them and they interfere with my life. They have made it difficult to achieve my goals, e.g. starting a family and giving my wife the marriage that she deserves.

    I’m constantly worrying about this and I feel like I live life in a chronic state of torment. Surely there must be another way around this. Sadly, there isn’t.
     
  19. Unsure77

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    I think queer people who live in unaccepting environments have anxiety…because they’re worried about hiding it. It’s not something inherent with being gay in and of itself.

    I still think professional therapy is worth pursuing. It’s just that you need to work through what to do about your marriage (especially if you’re not attracted to women). And making sure your wife understands the situation. If you’re bisexual or pansexual…that’s just a normal part of being human. I have a friend who is bi and she actually sits and comments on attractive women with her husband. It’s a non-issue. Even if you were straight, noticing people you’re not married to would be normal. What makes it a problem is if you act on that.

    Now, if you’re outright gay…your wife definitely deserves to know that.
     
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  20. Unsure77

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    @razorsharp One other thing I would recommend you consider... If you are outright gay and are not at all sexually attracted to your wife, your wife deserves to know that BEFORE you make a baby with her. And you really probably ought to make sure that BOTH of you have made peace with all of that before you make a baby. Because what you don't want is you manage to get her pregnant and then either you decide you can't deal with being in a straight marriage anymore or she finds out you're gay 10 years down the road and SHE can't continue on, and now you have children and custody and things to deal with. This is a baby, not a puppy. This is a lifetime commitment. It's unfair to your wife and it's unfair to any hypothetical children for you to go into that knowingly withholding that kind of information from her.

    She may be upset with you now, but I can guarantee you she will be FAR more upset at you if you hide this from her, you make 3 babies, and THEN she finds out you have this going on and knowingly hid it from her. Plus, at that point, if this IS a deal breaker for her, then you're risking losing time and contact with your kids. It's one thing to have that happen on accident. It's another to do it on purpose. Plus, for all you know, she'd be down for having babies anyway if you told her tomorrow you're gay. But you're taking the decision away from her by not telling her, which is a crappy thing to do and she and her family will likely be justifiably upset with you if you don't tell her BEFORE a pregnancy happens and it comes out 5, 10, 15 years down the road.
     
    #20 Unsure77, Jan 4, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2022