Don't want to be gay

DAXIII,
Did you really come here for advice about life and LGBT issues? Seems all your doing is sparing with everyone. As you get older you will see, everything is not black or white there is a lot of gray in the world.
If you are bound and determined to live a straight life, then go for it. I recommend reading the bible, book of psalms, pick one and repeat it over and over every time every time the demons visit your head. It will be daily! It will work for awhile.
Someday, when you give in to your feelings, because you will, how are you going to look your wife in the face without feeling guilty?
How are you going to tell your children their daddy is queer?
Give half of everything you worked for in your life to settle your divorce?

People here are trying to give you advice but you are unwilling to listen.

The truth will set you free! You just have to admit it to yourself. If your unwilling you'll have to learn it for yourself.

This may sound like I'm a ass, but its the truth. Sorry!

 

What did you try before and what problems did you encounter? How did you go about trying to build you self-esteem and confidence? What behaviours stopped people talking to you (beyond the ones you've mentioned)?

If you explain what you've done and how you try to resolve stress and depression then we might be able to suggest practical steps to you. For example, if you can drive and have a car then your options are numerous. You could join a hobby group of people who share a similar interest, you could take up a sport if you like physical exercise, you could try and undertake studies on a course that interests you. If you are religious you could find a more open minded church or church social group. You could also look at moving to a new place, like a city, and try meeting new people.

So you are happy to answer those questions about what you've tried in the past (and for how long, most of the benefits require long term ongoing participation to be effective) then we might be able to provide suggestions to overcome those problems you encountered before.

 

DAXIII,

Have you ever really looked at a forest? Or even just a tree? Now is a great time to look at the fall leaves.

Spend a few minutes to really observe a tree. Are all the leaves the same color? Even for a simple tree, how many shapes and forms do you see? If you had the rest of your life, could you completely define even a single tree through language?

When I look at nature, I see infinite variation. A single tree has many shades of color in its bark, leaves, roots, and branches. It contains so many physical forms - from thick to thin, from relatively straight to relatively curvy or bent, and from heavy and thick to thin and delicate. Yet, that incredibly complex organism is a singular thing that we label "tree".

I challenge you to spend the rest of your life trying to find a tree made of one color, one form, one pattern, or one "anything". The same could be said for any body of water, any raindrop, any galaxy, or any person.

Nature has all kinds of variation that we tend to simplify, abstract, and label. People have all kinds of variation that we tend to simplify, abstract, and label. Guess what - sexuality is absolutely no different. We simplify it, we abstract it, and we're often desperate to label it.

Your intense desire to be straight is because you have abstracted sexuality to a label and a concept that you think is singularly correct, and mutually excludes all others as incorrect. In reality sexuality is very complex, it defies labeling and categorization, and it's beautiful because it's "natural" and not man-made. I contend that sex is naturally beautiful and worthy of celebration, like hiking through a beautiful forest, or gazing on a magnificent sunset.

You are beautiful BECAUSE of your sexuality, not despite it. You are not an aberration, you do not need to be fixed, and you are not unnatural. You simply "are". You're unique, and your sexual expression is a part of that uniqueness. Celebrate that uniqueness, don't shun it or discard it.

As Oscar Wilde said, "Just be yourself - after all, everyone else is already taken!"

If I can offer any other help, just let me know.

*warm hugs*

Patrick

 

May I chime in? I've been lurking, because something in this thread resonates with me. Apart from the fact that it's hard to be gay...

So what is that strange about your behaviour? Try to pinpoint. Even vaguely. I mean, I am awkward as heck, and often, it's a question of either working on yourself or finding the right people. Not everyone sticks well together with everyone. I know such a bunch of extremely socially awkward, nerdy, borderline aspergers people, when speaking of strange behaviour, and looking at it from the outside, I wouldn't neccesarily advise them to try to fit in with the more social and "normal" types, because they glue together pretty well.

Also from my own personal experience, confidence and lacks thereof, shame, insecurity, fear of "what they are going to think", that goes a long way. If you feel like something is wrong with you, it makes you more awkward, which makes people not want to talk to you, which undermines your confidence further, and the cycle closes and you fall deeper and deeper into it. Which makes no sense if we look at that rationally and find out what was actually the "seed" for this cycle.

Some time ago I dated a guy, and everything seemed fine, until he got to know that I train karate, because he said he does and I said "me too". Then: complete turn-off. It has happened to me before. What could I have done? Not say it? Would it be me in that relationship? Or the proper woman I ought to be? You know why this happened? Because of shame. I was taught to be ashamed of myself. I was told to be someone else and picked up "appropriate behaviour" that hides who I am and is very misleading. It hurt so much because it's not "just a hobby", and it was not a reaction to a hobby, but to what it says about me. To my more violent side. I can't really blame him , though, because I was cheating from the very beginning with my whole fake persona, self-presentation went too far into lies, and I can't blame him for his turn-ons and turn-offs.

There are also things that are legitimately bad and need to be worked on, but worked on, not rejected. Like being late all the time, for example. If you're being late all the time, pretending you're not isn't going to help. But looking closely at why you're late and nipping it in the bud is going to help.

Sorry if that was too self-centred, but I can see a parallel between our experiences.

 

Who IS that Man in the Mirror?

 

Hi DAXIII,

You're doing a great job combating all the opinions here. It seems like you're not going to really listen to what others are saying here because you have your script down pat, and you just repeat yourself with your answers.

I have read your entire post history on EC. You've been struggling with this exact issue since July of 2015, or at least that's when you started posting about your dislike of being gay.

Perhaps if you're not willing to listen to others, you might listen to yourself.

This one, I think, is a key post from you:

I believe that until you rid yourself of this shame, nothing will ever change for you. It governs your entire outlook on life.

Here too, you allow other people's opinions about you to get you down. You give the gay community the power to affect your thoughts. You are good at giving this particular piece of advice, but are unwilling to receive this advice for yourself.

I don't know how much of this thought pattern is the Asperger's or not, but your inability to connect with people as more than tools affects your ability to enjoy being with people, and it furthers your feelings of being an oddball who doesn't fit in.

Well, this certainly explains this thread. You do like to prove everyone wrong. If you weren't lying in this post, then you should continue to increase your knowledge. Perhaps spending more time in seeking knowledge about yourself more than the pitfalls of the gay community might help you more.

Finally, please take your own advice below.

In this thread, you seem to like FACTS. Here's some facts:

1. You are gay.
2. You cannot change the fact that you are gay.
3. You can choose to ignore, hide, pretend that you are not gay, but that doesn't change the reality of your sexuality.
4. You don't want to be gay.
5. Your not wanting to be gay doesn't change the fact of it.
6. You will never feel for a woman what you feel for a man.
7. You can ignore all of this and choose to find and marry a woman and have children. That's your choice.
8. You cannot change your orientation. You only have a choice on your behavior and thought patterns.


Ok, that's it. Your turn.

 

Let's take the logical way for this one.

You're gay. Can you change it?

If YES: get to it

If NO: assess your possibilities.
You can either choose to hate this part of you forevermore and live miserably, or decide to make the best of whatever's prepared for you on this Earth.

Maybe you don't want to carry on anymore, but the truth is that the unknown is ultimately scary. You CAN'T know what's on the other side until you get there.

It might be better, it might be just dark, but it also might be worse. If it's better, you don't lose much by trying to get this life as a kick start to happiness. If it's void, then you'd literally waste your life by reaching the nothingness faster. And lastly, if it's worse than what you already have - situation I strongly suggest you consider - you'll realize what a mistake you've made by not trying to appreciate what you once had.

So the conclusion is that in all three cases, living is the best option. We've already stated that hating yourself can't do any good in the long run, so sooner or later you'd have to embrace your inner self. I'm not going to advocate on whether being gay is normal or not. It just is. I'm not a smart person so I can't give you an even remotely adequate answer on matters like this, but I can tell you that it feels pretty damn right to me.

So, as cheesy as this sounds: live your life. Review your options and go with the one you feel it's best. There will always be people to support you along the way and stand by your side in happiness and sorrow, sadness or joy; and that's exactly what life is - a kaleidoscope of feelings and experiences.

 

DAXIII,

Let's not be flowery or beat around the bush. You are responsible for your own life.

1. Are you going to take responsibility for your own happiness? If yes, welcome to the freedoms and responsibilities of adulthood. If not, you will sabotage yourself for quite a while, not realize your own potential, and not have anyone else to blame but you. Everything (and I mean everything) about your life comes back to you. We're here to offer our perspectives and support but the responsibility is yours.

2. Who are you living for? Who is defining the rules by which you live, and who defines what you should or shouldn't be? Do you want to live to please God? Do you want to live to please the church? Your parents? Your friends? Your coworkers? The government? If you feel that being gay is wrong then by all means - go find who said it's wrong and live for them! You are the only one you must learn to live with, unless you abdicate that right to someone else. As for me, I'm wary of others telling me what's right for me.

3. Are you grateful for what you have? I once worked for a man who was paralyzed in Vietnam and then went on to get his masters and doctorate degrees. Today he's well accomplished, has a wife and kids, is an amazing professional, and has had a huge impact on my life. He could have been so closed off and bitter, and yet he's the best example of gratitude I've ever seen. He chose gratitude, and it opened up his life.

4. When you are dead, either tomorrow, or 60 years from now, how do you want to be remembered? Whether you realize it or not, right now you're creating your entire life, as well as your legacy. At your funeral someday they'll say "flowery" things out of niceness, but after the service (maybe they'll go out for ice cream because in every other respect it will be an ordinary day for them) they'll be honest about who you really were and what you really gave. I hope my loved ones will be celebrating my awesome life over ice cream, not forcing a polite smile during a funeral service.

If you want to be happy, you can be, if you take responsibility. You can appreciate what you have, or you can squander it out of anger and self-pity. You don't even have to accept being gay - that's completely up to you. But you didn't roll off an assembly line, you aren't supposed to be like anyone else, and your life and legacy are yours alone. For whatever reason you were either very lucky or given lots of gifts.

You are absolutely correct that nature includes murder, rape, and theft. In a purely academic sense, they are not good or bad, they simply "are". Good and bad are the simplest, most abstract, and most problematic of labels. You, in all of your (natural) adult freedoms, are free to murder, to rape, and to steal. You don't have to conform to the law - although you will be held accountable to it. Again, nature just "is" - it's not good or bad, and your innate sexuality is natural.

I invite you to get to the bottom of why you are ashamed and where those shaming messages originally came from - a therapist can really help with this. Then it will be your responsibility to evaluate that for yourself and find a solution that you can live with. Whether being gay makes you beautiful like a forest, or savage like a rapist, is up to you, but you don't seem like a murderer, a rapist, or a thief to me. Why would you believe such awful things about yourself?

Finally, I would also recommend reading the book "Coming Out of Shame". The book analyzes shame from a technical perspective, looks at the impacts of shame in one's life, and outlines ways of understanding and overcoming the original source(s) of shame. It helped me to understand how powerful shame can be, and how it at times has robbed me of myself.

Patrick

 

I don't buy this for a second. You weren't looking for an argument for acceptance when you posted this thread. If we're going to go down this road, after over 70 posts in a single thread, you should at least be honest here.

You came back to EC after being away for a year. You didn't do so out of some intellectual curiosity to see what arguments people had for reaching acceptance. Bullshit.

The fact is you want to accept yourself and you don't know how. But until you let down your guard, you won't see it. All the arguments in the world won't take away this pain. Deny it all you want, but you did come back here - knowing what kind of responses you were going to get.

You can stop responding, and we'll all go on to other threads and slowly your problem will slip down to the murky bottom where threads go to die. Or you can keep working on this and try to find some real answers for yourself. But please start being honest with us. This isn't just some intellectual musing on acceptance. It's your life. If you are truly resigned to it, why bother posting?

 

DAXIII,

I think that Imgay47 just mentioned something critical here - pain.

Being gay can be hard since being out as a gay man means discarding old notions of yourself and being willing to explore some pretty scary territory including rejection, judgment, alienation, discrimination, bigotry, hate (including self-hate), and even violence. Some gay men commit violence to themselves by sexual addiction, drugs, alcohol, or suicide. Some gay men attempt to escape pain with sexual addiction, drugs, alcohol, or suicide. The only healing comes from accepting yourself, accepting pain, and loving yourself. This can take a lifetime.

The simple truth is that sometimes life is painful. You may be young enough that you haven't had to accept something truly painful yet, and this could be really hard right now. If you do openly confront being gay (which it seems you are already) there will be pain. Think of all the things humans do to avoid pain - are you resistant to being gay because it is difficult or painful?

You have an understandable aversion to pain, but avoiding pain at the cost of integrity isn't worth it in my opinion. There's also more to life than simply avoiding pain and seeking pleasure - life involves taking risks and exploring. Exploring who you are and taking the risks needed to have the life you want can be richly rewarding and may at times be really painful. You can't have reward without pain though.

Patrick

---------- Post added 31st Oct 2016 at 02:37 PM ----------

So, if I'm understanding correctly:

1. You aren't responsible for yourself.

2. You're living to please others.

3. You think being paralyzed is a war veteran's "ticket to ride". I won't even go here, and you have absolutely no right.

4. You have the same fear as absolutely every other mortal human being.

Given the above, is this the life you want to lead? How honest are you being with yourself? How honest are you being with us?

Patrick

 

Also, let me add one more parenthetical comment - time is precious so be careful how much time you let pass while you are angry.

After losing a parent to cancer and seeing phases of my life pass by, I can personally tell you that anger and bitterness steal your life. Time is weird. Don't wake up from anger someday, only to find that much of your life has passed by. Don't defer getting to the bottom of this and moving on to acceptance, or you will lose what is most precious to you.

This is a part of responsibility. Just my advice.

Patrick

 

"Happiness isn't a choice. It's based on the influence of the world around you and past experiences."

That simply isn't true as people here can attest. Being happy isn't easy but you are capable of being happy if you a prepared to work for it and there is a choice in how you approach the world.

By the way, the nihilist thinking that you adopt may help you protect you from the rejection you face but it isn't a solution to your problem. The world doesn't have some grand purpose, the world around us intersubjectively constructed and absolute morals are simply matters of belief. So what? The world has no meaning big deal. None of that is relevant to living a life you find enjoyable. You can either choose to live your life for yourself or you can continue to let other people determine your value. That's the fundamental choice you face.

 

"So but happiness isn't a choice, there is nothing to support that claim (anecdotes don't count). Is a product of your life situation and experiences ."

Of course anecdotes count because they are recollections of experiences people have had. You seem so sure that your experiences is valid and at the same time you deny anyone else's experiences as even possibly valid when you have no reason to doubt what people say. No doubt you are thinking at this point of your cliche that everyone lies and no one can ever have a 'true' experience but that would deny any validity to your feelings which would hardly help you deal with them. Even if you really though your feelings and thoughts are lies then it still wouldn't change the fact that you are miserable.

As I've said experiences are not mutually exclusive and you could consider how the experiences of others can inform your own outlook on life but you refuse to do so. And while happiness is partly constructed by our situation and experiences, it is also formed by how we look at the world and interact with it.