Don't want to be gay

Hmm, that all sounds pretty normal. I subvocalise when I speak to myself but I have at times spoken out loud. As for having an interest in dragon flies and spider webs (are they examples of more general interests in arthropods?), I've always had an interest in snakes and I've always enjoyed learning which set me apart from the some of the others. I ended up being friends with a small group of similar people - and even now I make friends slowly and have a fairly small circle of people I would call friends. But then those who are my friends are people I can rely upon.

Do you live in a place that has particularly fixed and narrow notions of whats acceptable? Or are most of your experiences from school? I would guess not given your references to pride events - but the same applies, I would not fit in with what some gay people might see as being gay but that just means I am more selective in who I consider as a friend. Judgemental people are present in all walks of life.

 

If it seems like an imposible task (to accept yourself) then it because it really is. LOL

Just be happy and content with yourself so you can feel some freedom. They say the secret to life is love and when you meet someone they will bring meaning to life. So feeling empty and crap about who you are is totally normal! But your "special someone" will make you feel great. Everyone has that to look forward to!

Until this day comes, just allow yourself to be who you are. find things that interest you. I personally never liked going out having sex all over the place so I stick to my hobbys. but you might like being a slut or you could just learn to master 360 headshots on your favourite shoot 'em up. or watever.

anyway, what I really wanted to say is to LISTEN TO MUSIC. That is the best advice I could give!

goodluck in life

 

SO do you want to go through life married to a woman? Truly caring for her but never being totally attracted to her? So don't say that people don't understand, cause I sure and the hell do. I hated myself so bad in my early years that I wanted to die. I finally decided I didn't want to be alone forever so I got married to a wonderful lady. If you think you hurt now try lying to yourself for the next twenty years. Every time you glance at a cute guy you feel like crap cause in a way your cheating on the one you married. Now after all this time how do you tell her?

It might be better to come to terms now...The other side might not as rosy as you think.

 

"Trust me it's not normal. That's the tame stuff. I also like to pretend a lot given my overactive imagination."

It is normal. Why do you think it isn't? Huge numbers of people are interested in things such as the biological and animal world, most people aren't interested in sports or other classically 'male' interests. You are not in school anymore, you can be whoever you want.

When you say pretend I assume you mean creating make believe and fantasy worlds - if so then I've done that, most people here will have done that, certainly every child does it and some adults too. The only way pretending would alienate other people is if you lie to others in such a way that they cannot trust what you say, in which case why lie to them.

So far you've not said anything that isn't normal average behaviour. Who do you hang out with that this seems to be abnormal behaviour?

What do you mean people lie to themselves? Do you mean that introspection is hard and people don't always know their own motives? Or do you mean that you lie to yourself and assume that everybody else does? Or do you mean that you assume everyone else is being dishonest in some way?

 

"There is no such thing as a special someone"

I wouldn't go as far as to say there is no such thing as a special someone, because that can really close off your heart to anybody in the future that might actually be interested in getting to know you sincerely. Sure, it may not be "true love" or a "soulmate" at first but you can meet someone that eventually turns into your whole world. For me, a special someone is a person that brings out the best in you, and you the same for them. You may have baggage or flaws, but they are willing to accept that. It's someone that you can confide in with everyday life problems, or somebody that you would never be bored with even if you guys are hanging out doing nothing. It is somebody that you're compatible with not only in terms of friendship, but also on an intimate level. You spend enough time forming a connection that you start to consider them as your "soulmate," and they become irreplaceable.

I think it's just best to keep an open mind on these things. And sure, people lie to themselves (denial) and to others all the time, but that doesn't mean it's a healthy habit to do. I'm pretty sure your significant other would like to know an aspect of you like orientation before they commit, rather than building a relationship on deceit.

 

It's different because now you know, and you can't unring that bell.

I've watched from the sidelines on this thread for the past couple of days, and have seen Barbatus's valiant attempt to convince you. Your easy rejection to each argument by him and others speaks not only to your intelligence, which is evident, but also to your determination.

I was determined to not be gay. I wanted no part of gay. I rejected it, and refused to dwell on those thoughts. I made a bargain to myself that even if I was gay, that didn't mean I have to "be" gay. I also justified it because my sexual experiences with guys were mostly negative. Some of that was the layer of shame that made it seem wrong, and some of it was because I was inexperienced (and so was my partner), and some of it because I wasn't really attracted to the guy. But I added those negative sexual experiences to my disgust at myself for being something no one wants to be.

There was a girl that I hung around with, and she was a lot like a best friend. I knew her feelings were deeper than mine for her, or at least I sensed it. I married her 20 years ago. I have 2 kids. I told myself that I wanted a "normal" life and it has been normal and pretty wonderful. Only not sexually. I stopped being able to have sex with her around 2009. You may not think so now, but once you're no longer in your 20s and easily able to become erect at most sexual thoughts, even hetero ones, your ability to be sexual with a woman will likely decrease over time. If you look around these forums, you will easily find so many married men who experienced a diminished sex life with their wives over the course of the marriage.

Unless you decide to just never marry, which I suppose you could do. If you're as smart as I think you are, I think you'll realize that marrying a woman and having children runs the huge risk that you'll end up like so many people here who are coming out in their 40s and 50s because they can no longer stand living in the closet, in sexless marriages, and with no hope of this getting any better until I do the one thing that I promised myself that I would never do - which is to tell anyone that I'm gay and completely up-end my life.

It's too bad that you haven't found acceptance yet. I desperately wish sometimes that I could go back to where you are now and make a different choice. Alas, I cannot.

If you choose to do the "normal" thing to avoid being gay, I would suggest finding a woman who you think won't be bitter and angry in 20 years when you come out. Good luck.

ps. I already know you will reject what I've said here. You don't need to respond.

 

So you have all these people saying pretty much the same thing, you refuse consider you might be wrong or that a consensus built up by a number of people with a range of experiences might be right (or even have a valid point that you can apply to your own life) and then you complain no one has convinced you. You are trapping yourself in a mindset that obviously makes you unhappy - why don't you want to change it and your outlook on life to enable yourself to be happy? Why do you insist on an attitude that ensures you will be miserable?

I thought you would be able to see your behaviour in context once you had heard from other people how normal those behaviours are. You are wrong, they are normal behaviours, I know people who talk to themselves out loud and people who have interests that you seem to consider abnormal. But you again seem to barricade yourself in your mindset and ignore everything anyone says to you. How do you expect to be happy if you approach people asking for insight from their own experiences and then reject those experiences out of hand - primarily its seems because they are not your experiences but that is the point, that is how you gain access to different perspectives with which you can then judge your situation with greater awareness.

If you have this approach how do you expect anything to change?

 

"Because based on my experience, yours is wrong". - That was my point in my last post - you reject any experience that others have that doesn't reinforce your current perspective on life. You are assuming that our experiences are mutually exclusive which is obviously not the case. Our experiences could be different because you and I focus on different aspects of people's behaviour, because we happen to be in different cultural and social groups or you might just remember the judgemental attitudes you've encountered because they have upset you so much. That's why a consensus and a mix of views found at EC can be helpful because it can help you put your own experiences in a wider context and to see things from a different perspective. By not engaging with that process you are preventing yourself from benefiting from being on this forum.

"And when I say it isn't compelling I'm saying that I have heard the same thing from most gay guys and found their reasons to be wanting." - that's fine but you haven't given any reasons why you reject them except that you've heard it all before and that you think our experiences are inapplicable to you. On both counts I don't know why you think these views are invalid given that they are drawn from a wider range of experiences than you can have had and even if each individual's experience in its totality is inapplicable there are similar elements to your situation in a number of people's experiences (for example, Imgay47's last post is particularly pertinent to you as the course of action you would have to take if you don't accept that you are gay).

"And it doesn't matter how my outlook changes because it won't make people see me any differently. I'll still be the oddball who is too odd even for other oddballs." - The point isn't about changing other people's outlook but about changing yours. For example, you seem to attach a great deal of importance to how other people see you suggesting that you only feel validated when others validate you but your outlook allows their attitude to determine your sense of self-esteem. You have no problem rejecting our views of your situation so why don't you reject the views of those who make you feel like an outsider?

 

Alright OP you have convinced me. I'm with the other posters in that the way you describe your idiosyncrasies doesn't actually even seem that unusual let alone unique, but what does seem unusual to me is the extent to which you completely dismiss and ridicule other people's perspectives and experiences. That does seem rather unique and I feel pretty confident that it has more to do with the way people treat you than anything else does. Indeed other people's experiences really aren't relevant to you--because you completely refuse to engage or even acknowledge them. So I concede. You win. You are uniquely unpleasant and will likely remain miserable. Good going!

I assume that's what you were hoping for from this thread since you certainly aren't interested in other people's viewpoints...

 

DAXIII,

If you aren't prepared to try and change your thinking nothing will change for you. All your statements amount to the same thing - a refusal to reconsider your outlook and accept that you partly constitute the world around you. You refuse to recognise that you might be wrong, you refuse to recognise that your experiences are not the full understanding of reality nor are they true for all people, you refuse to accept that you can make your life better, you refuse to accept that your sense of being odd is something you've derived from other people (for your behaviour is certainly not unusual), you refuse to accept that you could be happy by not allowing the judgements others make to determine your value, you refuse to accept that your experiences are not that unusual let alone unique and you refuse to accept any help from anyone.

Until you are prepared to try and improve things for yourself or change your attitude towards what others say you will achieve nothing here and we cannot help you.

 

Why is it that you must live your life based on what others see as normal? As I said before, what someone else considers normal may not be normal for another person. How are you ever going to truly be happy pursuing your own interests/hobbies if you're always worried about what someone may think of it? Those people can pass judgement all they want, but unless they are physically harming you, it doesn't matter what they think. Give me all the dirty looks you want, but I'm going to continue pursuing what I love, and if they have a problem with it, they should say it to my face. Your self worth is not based on how many people accept.

And I am going to have to reject your opinion on it being a "FACT" that there is no such thing as somebody special. It isn't a fact, but an opinion, just like mine. With a cynical mindset like that, it'll be hard to form a relationship with anybody at all, because you're going to just push them all away. To each his own. Like I said, any relationship that's built on deceit is never going to work out. Sure, it's only natural people try to look nice and put on their best behavior to impress somebody that they may like. That doesn't mean the relationship is being built on deceit, as long as you're not flat out lying about who you are as a person. Just like in the animal kingdom, animals are always trying to impress their potential mates by looking their best and showing off what they have. The animals aren't "deceiving" each other. People try to impress all the time on job interviews, but that doesn't mean they are deceiving the interviewers, unless they are lying about their qualifications, which will later just get them fired on the job.

It's human nature to want to be accepted by the people around you, but you shouldn't change who you are just to get their approval. There are plenty of people out there in the world that will accept you and not care about what your "weird" interests might be. I'm sorry that you had to go through your life meeting so many close minded and judgmental people, but not everybody is like that. I know it's hard, but it's best to not care what they think about you and move on with your life.

 

Sadly, this is just going in circles. As I said until you consider what other people say as possibly right or valid, accept that your outlook is not a total experience of the world and the people in it and until you change from your attitude of complete rejection of anything that doesn't reinforce your current narrative, nothing for you will change. Your last post (all your posts really) simply demonstrates that.

 

It's not easy but it is what it is...