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Bi HOCD?

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by Nobu, Feb 23, 2021.

  1. Nobu

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    Hello, I am a 28 year old male who previously identified as bisexual, but am now wondering if I am gay. To make matters worse, I am currently in a hetero relationship, although she is very supportive. This is something we are trying to figure out together. It also doesn’t help that I’m pretty sure I have had OCD all my life and never been treated for it, although we are looking for a therapist who specializes in both OCD and LGBT issues now.

    Growing up, I’d say I was completely straight. And I don’t think I was “defaulting” to straightness, I believe it was real primal lust for women. I would get crushes on the girls at school and go home and masturbate to them, sneak around to look at naked WWE divas on the Internet or in playboy, would fantasize about lesbians all the time, etc. Those are just in my head, but I also remember feeling over the moon when I had my first kiss in 7th grade with a cute girl, and getting an erection when she put her hand on my leg. I also got in trouble for playing doctor with a girl when I was REALLY young, and I remember getting hard during that.

    I realize growing up now I probably suffered from childhood emotional neglect, and abandonment issues. So when my freshman girlfriend cheated on me in high school, I couldn’t cope and I eroticized the pain and gained a cuckold fetish. I should mention before this, I was extremely into her sexually, in fact we had issues because she felt all I ever did was try to have sex with her. I say this because I don’t think I was “defaulting” to her either. I was genuinely attracted and into her.

    Once I gained this cuckold fetish, it pretty much overtook me and I’ve had it to this day. It probably doesn’t help I’ve been watching “adult content” almost daily since I was 8. Somewhere along the line, I imagined her humiliating me by having me do things with the guy, and then freshman year of college I began fantasizing about doing things with the guy only. So, I began to experiment and hooked up with a few guys (and girls) and found I could have passionate experiences with both, albeit some were hit or miss because of the person, smell, etc.

    I figured since I was into guys, I was gay, and told a few close friends as such (for some reason I didn’t think bisexuality was an option - I think I may have googled it and came across an article that said Bi guys are just gay.) However, I found myself falling for a girl who considered me her gay best friend. I fantasized about kissing her and having sex, and many times when we were together I wanted to kiss her so bad it hurt. I remember her excitedly telling me how she got a new boyfriend and it felt like my world came crashing down and how it physically hurt, but I couldn’t tell her how I felt because what kind of creep would pretend to be gay just to get close to women. Between that and having a cuck fetish, I felt like a trench coat creep weirdo.

    So I starting slowly cutting contact with her, and tried to get back into the world of guys. I went on some dates with a guy who was super cool and a musician, and we ended up hooking up and it was hot. However one thing I noticed was that I did not like kissing him, which was strange because I really enjoyed kissing girls and would get hard from just that. Also what was strange to me is that I didn’t really find him (or any guy) attractive, but I loved his personality and penis. I wanted to enjoy kissing him, so I explored this and found it could be internalized homophobia, so I tried as hard as I could to drop it and enjoy kissing him. And I tried hard, I imagined us in this weird fairy land where being gay was the norm, and you would be weird if you kissed girls. But it still didn’t work. I didn’t like his beard or breath. I even bought us mouthwash and gum hoping it would make kissing him more enjoyable, but it didn’t really. Eventually I started falling out of love with him, and then ended up moving so we broke up.

    After this, I got a new job and had a female coworker who looked electric in business attire. I would always stare at her butt, and I guess she felt the same because she told me she thought I was hot, and we began hooking up. This went on until I confessed to her that I had hooked up with men before, and then she didn’t like the idea of that so she ended things. I still fantasize about her to this day sometimes.

    Anyways I go through all that to explain why I felt I was actually bisexual, and why I am now being thrown for a loop thinking I’m gay.

    Now I’m with my new girlfriend, and I’m finding I’m fantasizing about men more...well not men, just penis, and I’m not sure why. I’ve already been out to people and I thought I had gotten rid of my internalized homophobia, but now I’m thinking maybe I haven’t if I’m only fantasizing about a penis and not a whole man. If I still have internalized homophobia, couldn’t there be a chance I’m just gay?

    I came across a post on Facebook from an older man who said he thought he was bisexual and then figured out he was gay later after had kids, and I instantly became OCD anxious what if that was me. As a bisexual, I 100% can say I’ve experienced “Bi-cycles” where sometimes I feel only attracted to women, or only attracted to men. And I fucking hate it honestly, it feels chaotic and makes me feel guilty when I’m with a man or woman. I’ve gone through times where I was fantasizing about the opposite gender while having sex with my girlfriend and boyfriend, and it makes me feel like the stereotypical trench coat selfish bi guy. But for the past 3 weeks, I’ve been fantasizing mainly about guys, and this has me wondering if I’m gay, or if it’s just a longer than usual Bi-cycle and my OCD is playing games with me. I’ll mention I’ve never been diagnosed with OCD (because I’ve never even come close to going to a therapist or anything) but when I think about somethings I have done in my life, I probably have it (I would swallow marbles until they touched the very back of my throat and then spit them out, because I felt if they didn’t touch the perfect spot in the back of my throat, I would have extremely bad luck, and there’s more nonsense like that.)

    I’ve told my girlfriend I’m worried and that we will figure it out, but part of me almost hopes I’m just gay. I searched for credible guidance and came across Joe Kort’s book “Is My Husband Gay, Straight or Bi?” and in this book he offered a series of questions he found almost always can predict someone’s orientation (and to be honest I don’t know if he’s right, but he has a lot more credentials than me and these sound like they make sense.)

    1 - The Beach Test - he said gay guys will only notice men on a beach and straight will only notice women, Bi both. I feel like I find myself looking at women’s butt and breast more, but how am I supposed to know this isn’t conditioning? Also I think I’ve only ever found one man “attractive” in my life, and that was Aragorn from LOTR. Why would I fantasize about penis so much and not find men attractive in real life? I even fantasize about trans women and my girlfriend having a penis sometimes. I realize it could be internalized homophobia, but I don’t feel homophobic. Most people already know I’m a sexual deviant and I don’t really care.


    2 - youthful noticing - this one also throws me for a loop because Dr. Kort says it’s the biggest indicator, and based on my gay friends experiences, they say the same. But I can confidently say I never had these at all. BUT WHY DO I FANTASIZE ABOUT MEN NOW. Is it possible my porn and cuck fetish just went too far? Has anyone else accepted they were gay after not experiencing these?


    3 - waking up - who do you want to wake up next to? - I feel like I’d be fine with either honestly. But honestly I just want the Bi-cycles to end. They are chaotic and it’s like having an emotional version of the spins you get from drugs and alcohol. Idk, sorry if that sounds biphobic, I’m just really tired of the back and forth.


    4 - falling in love - Dr. Kort says gay men love everything about men, not just a specific part or sex act, and want to fall in love with all of a man - beard, chest hair, stubble, humor, deep voice, etc. I honestly don’t feel like this is me, but maybe it’s internalized homophobia. I know I said I’ve worked past the homophobia myself, but I probably can’t do it as well as someone who is trained.

    5 - homophobia - he says gay men are usually homophobic because they hate that part of themselves. I personally love my gay friends and don’t know what I’d do without them. They didn’t even judge me when I went Bi after being “gay”.


    So I guess I’m just hoping someone can relate. Did any of you fail this test but still come to find you were gay? I’m not going to lie, I’m tired of being “bi”. I’m tired of the swings, the inconsistency, losing attraction for a partner, and the general chaos of it. I don’t mean to be biphobic, it’s just how I personally feel. Every time I have OCD panic attacks because it feels like my sexuality is something I can’t sort out or “put in order.” I know I shouldn’t been labels, but I feel like I NEED labels. I’m honestly a very black and white and orderly person in everything in life and this is killing me. Hell I’d be ok with being straight or gay. I just want to know if I’m going to break my girlfriends heart down the road because she’s amazing and I’d feel so guilty. How can Bi people know if they will eventually go one way or the other? I heard gay, straight, and Bi people have different brain structures. Is it possible to get a brain scan and see which structure mine most matches?

    Which is more likely to lie, fantasies or attraction when out and about? Is kissing an indicator? Or is your favorite body part (penis) the indicator?

    Is the length of time until orgasm an indicator when fantasizing? Or the length of the orgasm itself? I’m so OCD I’ve been literally measuring how far I “shot” in an effort to gauge how powerful the orgasm was when fantasizing about men and women. Idk, I just can’t figure it out and I’m tired.
     
    #1 Nobu, Feb 23, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2021
  2. QuietPeace

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    Welcome to EC. I am sorry to say that no one can actually figure out your orientation other than you. Other people can talk about their experiences and you can see what matches most closely but in the end you will have to be the one who decides.

    I think that this most of all is very telling. Before you can really figure out the answer to who you are really attracted to you will need to get the OCD under control. In reference to your title HOCD is not a real thing any more than there is "handwashing OCD" or "checking to see if the iron is off OCD" or any other specific OCD. There is only OCD and it can be treated with therapy possibly combined with medication. This is explained in a number of places on this forum, here is an example.
    https://forum.emptyclosets.com/inde...-or-do-i-truly-have-hocd.483619/#post-6695883

    In answer to both of these things I would say, be careful about trusting one single source for anything. As you see one saying that male bisexuals do not exist (patently ridiculous) and then you base most of the rest of your questions on one book by one person.

    This would to me indicate bisexual.

    I know a lot of gay men who are perfectly fine with being gay and do not hate themselves for it.

    I do not think that at this time this is really possible and I am sure that if it were that it would be very expensive to do. Easier and cheaper to just work with a therapist to treat your OCD and then learn to accept whatever your orientation is.

    I think that all of this testing is an indicator that your OCD is a big problem. Work through the OCD with a therapist and possibly psychiatrist before you make any serious life decisions. You have a girlfriend already who I guess seems supportive of your explorations, that is something that you should not just throw away before being sure. It is perfectly possible to be bisexual and in a relationship with one person, I have known many bisexuals in monogamous relationships.
     
  3. Chip

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    From what you're saying, I hear more that sounds like gay than bi, and while I'm hearing some indications of OCD, I'm not sure that what you're describing is necessarily consistent with an OCD with a focus on sexual orientation, although we can't rule that out.

    In simple terms, if I were to guess, I'd guess you're bisexual. But... that's my guess. You are the only one who knows you. And the OCD can really mess things up.

    Orgasm intensity, where your fantasies lie, attraction out and about are all pretty good indicators. If there isn't a strong pull one way or the other, if you feel attraction to both, if it varies some from one day to another... all of those are an indication you're bi. To have an indication you're straight would imply that you have basically no attraction for the same sex, and to have an indication you're gay, you'd have to have basically no attraction to the opposite sex. If you feel attraction to both... well, that's what most people would describe as being bi.

    As for Joe Kort... I have enormous respect for him in many ways. I'll also say he's a clinician and not a researcher, and his perspective is largely formed based on his clinical experience. I agree with much or most of what he says, but I'm a lot less certain about his differentiation between "straight men who have sex with men" and "gay men." I'm sure it holds within his experience, but I am not sure how widely it holds in larger studies of male behavior.
     
    #3 Chip, Feb 23, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  4. Lesbee

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    Hi @Nobu!
    a) I'm going through a very similar experience, and I agree that no one but you can know the truth, unfortunately.
    b) That said, personally if I had to choose a label (because I relate to the "end the bi-cycles" feeling) my gut on what you wrote to me seems to lean towards you being straight (and would maybe enjoy being pegged by your gf on occasion or other penis-related options).

    I would absolutely suggest continuing to be super honest with yourself as you can, and to the extent you think internalized homophobia, OCD, and/or other things could be contributing one way or another, I would suggest trying to find a therapist who you click with and trust, and who specializes in LGBTQIA2S+ issues and OCD as well. For my own bi-questioning, I've been doing a lot of writing, meditating, and talking with trusted people, and am trying to get a therapist ASAP (for me it's sexual trauma & religious oppression that are adding to my own questioning). I wish I could give an answer, but at least know you are not alone!