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Back to Square One

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by CatsAndDogs, Sep 4, 2022.

  1. CatsAndDogs

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    Hi everyone,
    I hope you are all well today. I have not been on here in a while, but lately I have been drawn back to the place that helped me and inspired me so much early in my coming out journey.
    My story is similar to so many others here: I came out to my wife and kids about 8 months ago at age 51. I was previously in the closet for my entire adult life, and except for my wife and kids and a few gay friends, I still am. They have been very supportive of this, although my wife admits to a lot of resentment towards me for the many years of not being honest her despite that I couldn't be honest with myself.
    I'm writing today because I feel like after 8 months, I'm not really any happier and I don't feel like I've made all that much progress. I still feel as trapped as I have for the last 25 years.
    After some time passed 8 months ago, my wife and I reached a sort of vague agreement that we could both see/date other people. But we didn't get into specifics like "can we be intimate/have sex with others","can we see people as often as we want", etc. I know that this could obviously be solved by just asking her these questions. But it is always been so difficult to approach my wife with these issues because we have never communicated well and discussions like this usually begin or end with her screaming at me for all kinds of things she's been holding inside of her.
    Anyway, after this vague agreement was reached, I discovered dating apps. I never had any previous experience with these apps, but once I started looking at profiles and chatting with guys, I was absolutely hooked. I was like a teenager again or someone in their early 20s every time a conversation started. I became comfortable with flirting and even sending naughty pictures! I never would have thought I would've ever done that! It was so exciting and fun!
    But this excited feeling has waned in recent weeks because the reality of the situation is that most of the good guys or guys I'm attracted to are immediately turned off once I start telling them my situation. They either stop contact because I'm still married and they don't want to get involved in someone who's "cheating" OR they stop contact because I am not experienced sexually. Since being on a dating app, I've had encounters with 3 guys. One of them occurred on multiple occasions. As amazing as these first encounters were, I was also awkward and in some cases, I wasn't "up to the task".
    In short, it seems like if you're down for a quick hookup, guys don't care what your situation is. If you want anything more than that, guys don't want someone with a lot of "drama".
    So, for those of you who are still married but have gotten to the point of dating guys: How successful were you? Am I kidding myself to think that I could at least have a casual relationship with a guy while I'm still married?
    Again, the answer is probably painfully obvious: Be honest with my wife and tell her what I really want to do. I just takes me so long to find the courage to bring this subject up with her.
    Thank you all for reading my ramblings and I appreciate any advice you can offer.
     
    #1 CatsAndDogs, Sep 4, 2022
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  2. Contented

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    Trying to maintain a same sex relationship while still married to a woman is extremely difficult. Once past the physical aspects of a sexual relationship with another man you start to build an emotional bond and that spells real trouble for your relationship with your wife. For me in the end I just wanted out so I could pursue my desire to be with another man which was so much stronger than with the woman I was involved with. I had to live as a openly gay man and had zero interest in women by then.
     
    #2 Contented, Sep 4, 2022
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  3. Robyn mac

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    You can always ask your wife if she has met anyone yet. Also you may want to help her find someone. But by remaining married you both find yourselves in a very diffucult sitituation.
    Dating apps you will find most men just want a hook up. Even websites most want a quickie. It is hard to find a man to date and form an emotional bond with and then be phyiscal with.
    If I just want sex I could always go to the beach and get off. But the challenge is to find someone and be a couple.
     
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  4. Choirboy

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    I am not at all familiar with any of the apps, and my ridiculous experience "dating" (if you can even call it that) was to meet someone online way before I had any kind of plan for the future and fall in love with him before we ever even met in person. When we met "for real" a few weeks later, I was so afraid of losing him that I set up the most awkward and horrible dinner of my entire life and introduced him to my then-wife and my barely teenaged daughters. I am still not sure how I lived through it. But it was worth it; he and I are still together 8 years later, the girls love him, my ex is friends with him and is engaged to someone herself, life has moved on and we are all far happier than we were before.

    The one thing I WAS able to do before the universe shoved me in a totally unexpected direction was to consider what I wanted my future relationship with my ex and daughters to look like. I came out at the same age you are at now, and I know the feeling of having lost out on a whole set of opportunities and experiences. But if you're looking to form some kind of relationship beyond hookups, even a casual one, it might be worth considering what you want to do about the one you are already in. Are you hoping to maintain a friendly relationship with your wife? Do you need to come to some level of resolution with her before you add a new relationship to the mix? Any guy that you meet (unless he is going through the same experience) is likely to be a bit wary if he senses any uncertainty in where you and your wife are headed. It might be a good idea to take a deep breath and think about the next footsteps before worrying about the next few miles down the road.

    The other thing to think of is the kids. I don't know how old they are or what kind of relationship you have with them, but in my case, wanting kids was why I got married in the first place, and while I did (and still do, at least to a degree) love their mother, she remains an emotionally twisted person who tends to sabotage her relationships and is her own worst enemy. Coming out had as much to do with escaping her as anything else, but I also knew that maintaining some kind of a friendship with their mom was still going to benefit all of us in the long run. It's been a major challenge to get past some of her stunts and encourage the girls not to shut her out of their lives, but we are pretty much at peace with one another, and not engaging in open warfare. Sounds like your wife may still be working things out, and perhaps on some level you are as well? If you still have some kind of love or affection for her, you might want to try having some serious talks about the future (if you can) and tell her how you feel about her and how you see things moving between you.

    Yeah Choirboy, fine words from someone who bumbled his way through the experience and somehow managed to pull himself out of the toilet before getting washed down! I know the pull of that missed adolescence surging back, and I'm certainly not trying to guilt you out of experiencing it or moving on/ What I can tell you, though, is that any new relationships you form will be affected by how you have handled the previous ones. Handle them with thought and care, and you may find that the future is a lot clearer. I can't tell you how often I look back and wonder how the hell I got through it all and ended up happy. But it can be done. There are far more of us "late bloomers" out there than you realize.
     
    #4 Choirboy, Sep 4, 2022
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  5. Isbjorn

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    Many things strike true with this post with me too. I am struggling to figure it all out myself. Wish I could help you directly, but I am in too similar a boat. My relationship is good with my wife, but again there is something missing. I know I am better off than when I first came out to my wife, but I am not truly happy, yet. I am working on this with my counselor. There is A LOT more than just my orientation and how that affects my mariage that I am seeing him for. I have been unburying a lot of baggage from my childhood that I have carried for a long time, also some subliminal trauma from my time in service. As we unpack this shit, it is getting lighter and things are getting better, but like my marriage there is a long way to go before I get where I want to be.

    I think by sharing our stories we all can help each other. Take care friend, PEACE!
     
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  6. CatsAndDogs

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    Hi @Contented , thanks for your reply. Yes, I feel the same way. My desire to be with a guy is so strong, and my wife and I have not been intimate in 16 years. And, unlike many of the stories I've read on here, we are not exactly best friends anymore. We have many other marital problems besides my sexuality. I just wish my courage to face this head on with her was as strong has my desire to be with a guy.
     
  7. CatsAndDogs

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    Hi @Robyn mac , thanks for your reply. Yeah, as obvious as the solution is, I'm still trying to muster the courage to really deal with this with her. A lot of it, though, is the emotional and financial upheaval it would create if I actually moved out
     
  8. Contented

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    You are in a difficult situation for sure. To deprive yourself of any sexual satisfaction with another person for so long is horrible. Sometimes we are required to take drastic action if we want what we desire. I know, I lived it. Being with another man finally and exclusively has been so worth it. Even if it were possible to be heterosexual again after experiencing homosexuality I would have no interest in being straight again. You need to chart a course that gets moving towards your goal of being in a gay relationship.
     
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  9. Nickw

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    @CatsAndDogs

    It seems to me that you have, pretty much, decided that you cannot remain in a mixed orientation marriage (MOM). It does appear that your relationship with your wife has issues well beyond your sexuality.

    As you might remember. I am in an MOM. I can tell you, without any question, that to make a MOM work, the marriage must have a LOT going for it. At the heart of the marriage a commitment to the happiness of your partner has to be paramount. I would give up everything for my wife. She would do the same. It is that understanding that allows us to explore friendships and intimacy outside of the marriage. But, if my wife decided she could not tolerate an open marriage, I would choose her.

    Since that doesn't seem to be what your marriage is. And, there is no intimacy in your life, you, really, might not have much of a choice about what you need to do. It really comes down to the details and the timing. I know you fear the conversation with your wife and the emotional and financial exposure. But, you are going to have to face it sometime. The question is when will that be? Is it better for you or your wife to wait? Sometimes it is. But, sometimes fear is the only motivation for staying where you are and that is not a way to live your life.
     
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  10. Gayhusband

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    I can really relate to this post. It’s so frustrating. It’s difficult
     
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  11. CatsAndDogs

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    Hi @Choirboy. Thank you for your reply and I'm so sorry it's taken this long to respond back. (I'm on here for a while, then I'm off because some other shiny object grabs my attention, so to speak). Well, all I can say is, wow, I can relate to so much of what you said. Since I've written this post, I'm still figuring out what I want with a man. Hookups? Casual now and then? Long term relationship? Something in between? I am leaning towards casual for now, but I do know one thing: I can't do anything until I move out and we separate. This "arrangement" that I have/had with my wife is not working and I don't feel I can figure anything out until I leave. Thank you again for sharing your story.
     
  12. CatsAndDogs

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    Hi @Nickw - Thank you for your reply, and once again, so sorry for taking so long to respond back. Yes, you are right. I don't think I can remain in this MOM. I am happy for you that you have such a deep and committed relationship with your wife. That sounds like a blessing despite the inner conflicts that it must present. But, as described previously, I do not have that kind of relationship with my wife anymore. Although I do care about her and care what happens to her, there is just too much anger and resentment on both our parts for us to remain together. And, although she was very supportive and understanding when I first came out to her, that is pretty much gone now due to various reasons, which I'd like to explain in another post. So, what I would like to do is keep the peace until after the holidays, and then tell her I would like to move out. It is going to be messy and ugly and hurt like hell, and then there is the whole aspect of how my kids will take it, particularly my daughter. My daughter is our youngest and is in high school, so she is the only one who still lives with us full time. But, I just can't live in this state of limbo anymore. Thank you again for your reply and your support!
     
  13. CatsAndDogs

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    Hi @Contented @Robyn mac @Gayhusband @Isbjorn @Nickw @Choirboy and anyone else who liked or responded to my post a few months back. Thanks so much for reading and/or replying. I really appreciate and, honestly, need your support right now. Although I seem to keep getting away from being on this forum regularly, your support means so much.
    Since I wrote this post back in September, things have changed a little bit, but not necessarily in a good way. I continued to get wrapped up in online interactions with guys, and many of them were good ones. I have been fortunate to make a few good friends online in the past few months, so I'm happy about that. But, I also did some things that I'm truly ashamed of, and I don't even know how I got the ability to do it. And when I say I'm ashamed, I don't mean that I'm ashamed because I had a few encounters that involved some degree of sex. I'm not necessarily sorry for that. But, about a month or so ago, I got caught up in an online interaction that turned out to be a total scam. As smart as I thought I was about things like this online, I completely fell for an international scammer who chatted with me for like 6 weeks and got me to believe that he was in love with me. I gave him over $3000 of my recently deceased mother's life insurance settlement to help him come over to the States so we could be together. I mean...what?? What did I do?? Somehow, I rationalized taking savings that was in a joint savings account owned by both my wife and I, and I bought bitcoin and sent it to this guy because I believed he was "different," and he loved me. Oh, and the kicker? I am 52 and he was 25 (so he said). I am sharing this with everyone because I trust that it is a no judgement zone, although I know I deserve at least some judgement. So, when my wife found out pieces of this and confronted me about it, I told her the full story. Needless to say, any support, trust, understanding or anything from my wife is now gone. I had never felt so hateful of myself. I deleted every photo on my phone of this guy as well as photos of every other guy who had ever sent me photos as well as photos of myself that I sent to guys. And then I uninstalled the dating apps from my phone. But, after a couple of weeks, I couldn't just keep literally beating myself up every single day. I reached out to a couple of friends just for support. And, one friend in particular has really helped me lately. He had also come out later in life, and went through many of the same things that I'm going through now. And he said one thing that really, really has stuck with me: He said that his maturity level was that of a 16 year old. I COULD NOT RELATE TO THAT STATEMENT MORE. Yes, I absolutely feel like I'm a teenager again, and not just because of the newfound "horniness". But, I am SOOO immature when it comes to sex and relationships. It makes sense I guess, but even more importantly, I think it's at least part of the reason why I've done all this stupid stuff. I think it's why I've been attracted to all these twentysomething guys online, and in particular, why I got so caught up and what a good looking, international 25 year old was saying to me. (And it wasn't just what he was saying to me. We both shared a lot of personal stuff, so I thought it was authentic). I mean, I hope my immaturity was the reason why I did that, but I also I hope my maturity level can rise.
    Well, sorry for the long spewing of thoughts, but I just wanted to share what it's been like lately. One last thing: I want to tell my wife after the holidays that I want to move out and separate. I feel like I can't move on or figure anything out until I do that. I realize it is going to be ugly, messy, and hurt like hell, and I don't know how the kids will take it (Only 1 of the 3 are still living at home full time). I hope that I can figure all this out while maintaining a good relationship with my kids.
    Thank you in advance for any thoughts anyone has on this. --CatsAndDogs
     
  14. PJ208

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    I can totally relate with you. I'm still married as well. Initially I came out as Bi and it went over fine, that was 7 or so year ago. I realized a few months ago I am gay and after discussing with my wife and a few therapy sessions I did initially feel alot better. I thought our commitment to our marriage was paramount and she felt the same. But then I just slip back into this kind of 'depressive funk' and feel that I'll never truely be happy. My wife will not "open" our marriage. She's terrified I'll fall in love and leave her. I can't deny that possibility either if I'm being honest. My therapist has been a big help but it hurts to realize I likely won't ever be truly and fully happy until I allow myself to be me. I'm a gay man living in a straight relationship, so it's not hard to figure out what needs to happen. I'm just not willing to walk away from a loving friendship and bond we have created over almost 19 years now. For now, I'm just dealing with it day by day, I'm just not ready to part ways. Eventually it will probably have to happen that way but Im at least confident I won't loser her friendship. We never fight, argue or raise our voices with each other we never have. She knows that my being gay is not a choice or anything either of us can change. It sucks....day by day. That's all I can do right now but I can tell you that every minute I crave the companionship, love, intimacy of a man, I think of it all the time and can't stop. Won't stop. I am gay and that's the only label that has ever felt right.