Hi, I am new to this forum but wanted to share my situation and see if anyone might be able to offer some support. As a way of background, I am a 34 years old irish guy who lives in London UK. I realised I am gay at 15 and did not take it well. I just thought my life is over, will have no friends, no job etc and this was quite a traumatic period for me. Over the following years, I gradually came out to my parents, to several groups of friends (at university, ex-colleagues, other friends etc) and this has all gone positively. My problem is that I still seem to get upset or very anxious in myself regarding my sexuality. Although I have only had positive experiences myself, I of course hear in certain environments negative comments people say about gay people (both growing up in school and also as an adult in certain circumstances) and instead of thinking "these few people are stupid", I seem to feel like it is my problem somehow. I figure I have some internalised homophobia in me because otherwise I would not care what other people think - especially after I have received support from friends and family. Just to add, I do have several gay friends, have been on the scene, have had sexual encounters but never a relationship. Well, perhaps there are others in their late 20's/30s who have also found it difficult to truly accept their sexuality for whatever reasons, I would be interested to hear your experiences and hopefully make some new contacts. Thanks.
Hi Karl178 First welcome to EC somehow I find myself in the same sort of boat as you; I’m 46 and still only coming to terms with it at this time. I’ve known for a long about my sexuality but have denied it for all these year. I’ve still not come out to anyone but at least I’m talking now on EC. You seem to have some good friends around you so that in itself is a good help trust them and let them help if they wish. One of the things I found out from this site is to find people to talk to over problems there seems to be a lot of good place that can help great if you are a youth but the older you get the harder it seems to find the right people to talk to. This is a problem I’m sort of working on at this time is like who do I come out to what will friends think what about work. Then there is the ok I’ve come out now, how do I go about find friend that are like minded if is a whole new world for me and it scares the hell out of me to. Well sorry not much help for you really only to say that you are not the only one out there that gets very upset or very anxious over your sexuality, this has played very hard on me most or all my left.
Hi Spud, Thanks for the reply and sorry to hear you are having some difficulties similar to myself. I think you are right that its important to have some good friends to be able to talk things through with etc. In your case, do you know any gay people either socially or at work? It seems from your post that this is perhaps not the case, at least not anyone you know is openly gay. I just sent you a friend request on here, would be good to chat a bit on private message if that would suit you also. Best, Karl
Hi I have been working on accepting my sexuality for since Nov/Dec last year. I'm also 34. I came out to one good friend about a month ago and felt a little relief but I am now as lonely and lost as before as I come to terms with myself. It's tough, right? I think talking about it helps. When feelings are trapped inside I think they can easily become toxic, but by airing them with trusted people, we open up to vulnerability and connections are formed. I have just read the Gifts of Imperfection by Brené Brown and this has really motivated me to share my feelings. I'm not sure I am ashamed of being gay, but I am certainly ashamed of the deceit towards others. My behaviour is not indicative of someone who loves them self. This I am working on. Chip's response on the thread below talks concisely about this book. I got a lot out of it. http://emptyclosets.com/forum/support-advice/64707-learning-love-myself.html#post1094791 I know your post was about accepting yourself, not shame specifically, but there must be a connection. Good for you for posting here and being proactive about your situation. My goal is to be able to be truly proud of how I am and live at peace with myself. I know if I work towards this goal, I will be in a much better position to maintain a healthy and happy relationship. In support of you! Rose
Hi Rose, Thanks for the book recommendation and positive message. I fully agree with you that when feelings are trapped inside they can become almost toxic, so having friends to discuss things is very important. I have tendency to retreat into myself when I get a bit down :/ Yeah, coming out is can be a tough process as it needs to be done repeatedly in lots of different social circles. In my case, I have come out to my immediate family, a few cousins and a bunch of friends from uni, work, sports clubs... But I still seem to struggle with this belief that I truly belong or am loveable as a gay person. Its a bit funny in that as I write this I feel a bit ridiculous in my thought pattern but I seem to have some strong defensive and negative emotions regarding my sexuality that continues to hold me back. Perhaps I feel like I can tell some people but ultimately I am letting them down when I tell them the truth. Though, by my experience, there has been no indication that this is true, in fact most people I have told about my sexuality have become very close to me as friends, whereas they could easily have quietly distanced themselves. Anyway, if you would like to share, I am interested to hear about your experience. You mentioned that you have been figuring out your sexuality over the past several months, and you came out to just one friend but now feel quite alone again. Did you feel a weight off your shoulders when you told this person and how did that interaction go? Best, Karl
Hi Karl, I share your struggle. I am envious that you have come out to so many people. That is awesome. That you continue to struggle with the belief that you belong must have made it especially difficult. It sounds like you are very well supported. I too have strong defensive and negative emotions regarding my sexuality. I think I figured out my sexuality in my teens but it has taken me until now to accept it. The friend I told was a pretty safe bet. I have known her less than a year but we have supported each other a lot as we have both settled into life in a new country. Her courage to be true to herself really inspired me. She is straight, but overcoming tremendous obstacles to find a happier life for herself. It felt right to tell her first. I wrote a letter sharing the outline of my story and sent it by email. I got an almost instant response. It was incredible and I felt loved for being me for the first time. I am going to quote some of what she wrote "You are a gift in my life. And I feel like you just gave me this massive present of your truth. I feel honoured to be your friend, so special too. When the time comes that you feel ready to celebrate this truth in your life, I want to be right by your side" I could not have dreamed a more positive response. There was indeed a little relief, like the lid being removed from a pressure cooker and letting out some steam. There is still a lot more to come. Since then, interaction has been pretty normal, and I definitely feel a stronger connection through being honest. I am aware of becoming too dependent on her and I have to deal with this by widening my support circle... watch this space! For you, working towards the idea that you are enough might be a good way forward. You cannot change being gay, but you can change what you think about yourself. Your feeling of not being as loveable because you are gay indicates a low sense of self-worth. Luckily, you can do something about this! Talk, read, share. You are doing it. Stay in touch
Hi Rose, Thanks for your kind reply. I think that the response of the first friend that you told was really beautiful, "You are a gift in my life. And I feel like you just gave me this massive present of your truth. I feel honoured to be your friend, so special too. When the time comes that you feel ready to celebrate this truth in your life, I want to be right by your side". It shows how highly she respects you and fully accepts for who you are including your sexual orientation. I know what you mean by not wanting to lean on this friend all too much, but all the same she has offered to be there to support you and so you should maybe continue to open up to her. Of course, this is only the first person you have come out to but it should help you understand how deeply your friends and family care for you. I think you are right in that I must begin to feel that I am still the same person as I always have been. For a long time, I have almost lived two different lives, one being with my gay friends on the scene etc and the other being straight with certain colleagues/other friends. I know deep down that if I can become authentic and consistent in how I present myself, it will help me feel better about myself and get my esteem to where I know it should be. Of course, easier said than done! And how is your holiday going? I know you mentioned that you will be doing some yoga, it sounds quite relaxing and hope you are enjoying.
Karl, On my phone so message may be jumbled. Yes easier said than done but Rome wasn't built in a day right? I try to take it one day at a time. Happiness not a goal to achieve but a process whereby living authentically and freely we get the peace and contentment we deserve. Presenting yourself consistently is an excellent goal. I arrived in Turkey in the early hours and have had such a relaxing day. I'm starting the Yoga retreat tomorrow and even managing to fit in a therapy session in the morning. I am ancious about the Yoga, in case I fall apart emotionally during meditation but if it happens it happens! From tomorrow I'll probs be offline for a week. This forum has helped me so much in the last four or five days. I'll miss that. I hope you have a good week Rose
Hi Karl, First of all, thanks for being so honest with us on this forum. I think your story and your fears will jive with many people, especially those of us who are a ‘bit older’ than the majority here. I’m 46 openly gay with friends and family and I have the joy of a wonderful relationship. But I still find myself troubled by my sexual identity. I have known Im gay since puberty and its been a long, long journey still not complete I feel. One of the frustrations I have found with folk older than about 30 is that they seem so reluctant to share their concerns and fears about their sexuality. So thanks for bucking that trend. I suppose its because we are supposed to be – and in so many ways are – established, confident, independent adults who have everything sorted. So when we present a sense of vulnerability about our sexuality it’s seen as immature or stupid. I think we grew up in a very different world, even though its only recently. You know what I mean I am sure, I’m sure. So no advise. But this thread is valuable. Thanks Malc
You have to grow a layer of teflon mental armor. Is it unfair that you have to, just to be yourself? Yes. But at the end of the day, if you're tough and you develop some mental resolve, a sort of 'take no bullshit from anyone' attitude, you'll be fine and settle down very happily. That's what pride is, and that's why the queer community tries to foster pride, because it's the coping mechanism for facing a very difficult lifestyle transition that is highly stigmatized by some groups.
Hi all, Great to see other people joining the thread and really appreciate your insights and support. I think its certainly true that the majority of people coming to terms with their sexuality is getting younger each generation and I am very happy for this. But yes indeed, even two decades ago (1993 to be exact), when I first realised I am a gay man at 15 years of age and living in Dublin, things were quite different. The whole concept of what being gay is all about was not in the media as is today, except for some of the more sensational stories as you can imagine. I would think that there are many people in 30+ age range who are in their own way coping with fully accepting their sexuality and am therefore so very happy to connect with all of you on here. I quite agree with your point, Rose, that Rome was not built in a day. It takes time to build the courage and strength to come out to the people you care about and develop the feeling of pride and security in one's skin. As you mentioned in your last post, I think the goal for consistency and authenticity is really important and is something that I now see as really important for me (ie no more two sets of friends etc). Even after just a week of this forum, knowing other people are in similar situations and being able to discuss openly has been very helpful so thank you all. It seems that many of my gay friends in their 30s+ have very little interest in talking about these issues and so I strangely feel quite isolated sometimes even in the company of gay friends. Spatula, yes I fully agree with your points regarding the need to grow a layer of mental armour. Its quite strange how for most other issues in my life, I am quite mentally strong, yet my sexuality is something that can leave me feeling extremely vulnerable. :/ Malc, it would be great to hear more about your coming out story and, if you care to share, the struggles and joys you have had along your journey? Rose, I hope your trip to Turkey is going well and I look forward to hearing from you when you get back online. Best, Karl
Well, my issues have been much more related to my identity as a ‘gay man’ than they have to my sexuality per se. For too long I lived knowing I was gay without feeling comfortable with that label. Once you’ve spent a long time on that road, its difficult to bring it together. Does that make sense?
Hi Malc, yes I think I understand what you mean and can certainly relate. I have always assumed that the most difficult part of accepting one's sexuality is being comfortable with the "gay label" and allowing being gay to naturally become a natural part of one's identity (rather than feeling it is some hidden shameful part). Well, certainly for me, this is something I have struggled with a bit over the past several years. I figure that the more I live an authentic life (ie not hiding my sexuality) and coming out to people that care for me I can feel more comfortable in my own skin. Does that make any sense?
Karl, It makes a whole lot of sense to me. I certainly feel that coming out is a vital element of our journeys towards authenticity as gay men. Sometimes I wonder, though, what being a “gay man” actually means to me. Does it simply mean that I’m homosexual? Or is there something more to it? What do I share with other gay men apart from a sexual orientation? It’s gay pride today in London. What is it that I should be proud of? The only thing I can put my finger on is the shared experience of being part of a minority that has struggled so successfully in the face of enormous odds to emerge in the public and private realms as authentic human beings. My pride is at its most profound when I sit down to dinner with family and friends and they simply accept the man at my side as my loving partner. Nothing more, nothing less.
Hi Malc, I really like your definition of pride "when I sit down to dinner with family and friends and they simply accept the man at my side as my loving partner". In my view, its a beautiful way to illustrate what you should really be grateful for as a gay man. I happen to live in London and was actually at the Pride festivities yesterday afternoon. I had a nice time with some friends watching the concert, but did I really feel a sense of communal pride amongst tens of thousands of strangers enjoying a drunken street party? Not really, almost the opposite actually, I decided to have a quiet night at home and watch a film. When I first identified myself as gay, I felt that all my straight friends would disassociate from me and therefore I could only have gay friends and go to gay bars etc. But in fact, this in itself was restricting my life, as it meant I was only looking amongst 10% of people to find good friends to connect with. I feel that now I have a much broader mix of friends in my life (both straight and gay) but it is now based on other attributes. Karl
Hi Karl, Again I'm totally in sympathy and agreement with you. I didn't go to Pride. I have always had a dislike of "clubs" or "cliques" and, beside that, Pride seems to me a little self contradictory. On the one hand we argue for inclusion because we are not different to straight people. Then we have an enormous parade designed to express our difference. I suppose there is nothing wrong with being inclusive of difference, but I can't help thinking in this day and age that singling out our sexuality for the sake of a party is little more than sticking two fingers up at others. Its got the feeling of nah nah, nanah nah. If you know what I mean. Rant over.
Hey Karl, you posted on my thread did you not? Thanks for the sound advice and insight. I have a lot of empathy for where you're coming from because it seems like although society still has problems with us growing up as gay in an older generation was more difficult. What has been helping me has been being aware of all of the thoughts and feelings that I have every day and when having some sort of negative or unhelpful thoughts, whether about sexuality or anything else, rejecting them or recognizing them as unecessary. I feel like awareness of this and being in touch with yourself is really powerful and takes the power away from whatever feelings of shame we might have. Whatever thoughts aren't really respectful towards us don't really need to be a part of our lives. If we have thoughts that are homophobic or self deprecating it is only because they have passed to us from others or from experiences. Although this transmission is regrettable I think we can gain more and more control over how much of that we accept or have inside of us. Also consistency has helped a lot, like repeatedly challenging negative thoughts through some kind of action or doing something that helps me to be proud of being gay. Posting on here has been one way of doing that. I think you could try putting yourself in situations that allign more with your idea of being gay to try to change that into a positive idea. That and to gradually be more integrated in your life as far as who you are out to. Good luck!
Hi Lookingtoaffirm, I did indeed post in your thread, am glad to hear it was of some help. I like your technique of recognising and rejecting negative thoughts. I certainly have noticed, strangely enough when in my last job, that I generally had a lot of negative inner talk going on, to the extent where it could make a real difference if I caught myself and challenged some of this thinking. Maybe its the same for you, but it takes a real significant effort to maintain this positive perspective on a daily basis as old habits die hard. I guess its just a case of continual reinforcement as you mention. With regards to my sexuality, sometimes this negativity is overwhelming to the extent that I can't just handle it, or at least that has been the case over several years but is something that has <fingers crossed> improved a bit over recent weeks as I have come out more and used this forum. It certainly has shifted somewhat. Yes, consistency is my key word this month so I am happy to see you bring it up. Its something I have made a big effort to work on and I fully agree that posting in this community can be one good way to help achieve that. Once again, thanks again and would be great to chat more across these threads. Karl
