Hi *Sorry in advance for the long post. I feel it’s important to tell my story in full so I hope you can bear with me* After reviewing a number of LGBT+ forums, I’ve decided to choose this one to tell my story to help me seek some sense of my feelings. I’m a 39 year-old female Muslim and at the start of this year, I finally admitted to myself that I’m bisexual and that I like women. Growing up in a Muslim household, there was never any chance of exploring my sexuality. In fact, throughout primary school and most of high school, I didn’t have any awareness at all of same-sex relationships or gay sex. But what made me think about the LGBT+ community was when my friend came out as lesbian just before I left high school for college. But she was going to college in another city and we parted ways and never managed to keep in touch. It meant I didn’t get a chance to discuss anything with her regarding her sexuality. That was 22 years ago and I truly realise now how brave she was in coming out but did it do anything for me? I can honestly say, it didn’t - I never questioned my sexuality. I just thought ‘ok she doesn’t like boys and prefers girls’ but I did like boys and had crushes on them. So were there any signs for me? Signs that perhaps I didn’t take them for what they were? Looking back, I can’t recall anything distinctive in primary school but I do remember in high school becoming infatuated with a young biology teacher. I went out of my way to attend her extra help classes even though I didn’t need them. I remember feeling devastated when she announced her engagement to her boyfriend. I also remember that I started watching Star Trek because I was strongly drawn towards a female character called Tasha Yar. So yes, I suppose there were signs and it was only years later that I realised they had a deeper meaning. Soon after starting college, I also started work in the family business. There was no time for anything else. I’ve always had trouble with my weight so had no confidence in socialising or making friends. But by that time, I had discovered the joys of orgasm and took the opportunity of pleasuring myself whenever I had the chance, which wasn’t often considering I shared the house with 5 other of my family members. I orgasmed at the thought of older men, tall men and toned men but one time, I had an intense one thinking about one of my customers, a woman in her late 30s with short hair who I always looked forward to having a chat with, this took me back - it frightened me because at that time, I believed it was wrong. So I stopped pleasuring myself altogether. I never went to university (my eternal regret) after college and at the age of 22, with my permission, my mum and dad arranged my marriage to a guy in Pakistan. I flew out and within 2 weeks was married to him. I was excited, looks wise he wasn’t someone I would be normally attracted to but he seemed like a great guy, that is until he admitted to me, on the first night, that he wasn’t attracted to me because of my weight and only married me because he wanted to live in the UK. Oh, but he still wanted to have sex! Me desperately wanting to know what it felt like, I agreed. He was attentive enough and it was sore at first but afterwards I felt nothing, physically and emotionally - nothing. Any attraction I felt towards him vanished the moment he admitted to me that he only saw me as a ticket into the UK. The next 4 weeks passed in a whirlwind and I was grateful, we didn’t have much sex as we were busy visiting his family across the country. Back in the UK, I cried myself to sleep because I knew my husband was a jerk and I didn’t want him to touch me ever again, worst part was, I couldn’t confide in anyone. Unfortunately, I had to ignore all that as it was expected of me, as a Muslim wife, to live with my husband. With the help of my family, I bought a wee house, arranged a visa for him and some months later he was with me. But it wasn’t a happy time, he didn’t like me and I didn’t like him, even though it didn’t stop him from trying to have sex with me but I refused flat out and he respected that at least. But he gave me grief everyday and my dad proved what an amazing person he is by saying to me one day “if you want a divorce, I’ll support you all the way because I can’t see you cry anymore.” After 1 year, my marriage was over and I moved back in with mum and dad. But it left a deep scar. I became indifferent to anything to do with relationships or sex - I wanted none of it. I threw myself into the business and focused entirely on my family; my brothers got married and had families of their own and then my sister got married and moved down south (to England). Eventually, it was just me, my mum and dad left. I had more private time to myself and slowly I started to revisit my sexual desires. Sex outside of marriage is not permitted in Islam so that never entered my mind; I’m not proud to say it, but with it being easily accessible on smart devices, I turned to online porn. I masturbated to the usual suspects: older and toned men and my likes expanded (I have a thing for male-on-male action), but when it came to straight sex I chose women with specific physical attributes like short-hair and nice breasts. It was something I couldn’t help but I allowed myself this, a silent acknowledgment to myself that certain women appealed to me. However, in saying that, I completely avoided girl-on-girl action. 2 years ago, I took a momentous step towards achieving a dream I’ve had for a long time - studying for a degree in history at The Open University. For once, I wasn’t doing something that was expected of me, I was doing something for myself. It further made me re-evaluate my life. I think it has led me to open myself up and tread uncharted waters. I started following LGBT+ accounts on Twitter and started watching their videos on YouTube. I discovered that people could like both men and women. Bisexuality stood out, it raised its head at me and was giving me a warm cuddle. It nudged me into dropping my inhibitions and earlier this year, for the first time, I watched lesbian porn and liked it. I had a powerful orgasm imagining myself in her position, I imagined myself giving pleasure to another women. It was a revelation for me. But afterwards, I thought to myself ‘I’m in deep trouble’ - a reactionary response thinking what I just done conflicted with my faith and knowing my family will never accept that I like women. With equal marriage and more gay people and couples living openly, my mum is always ready to tell me how wrong it is and that it’s not allowed in Islam. Over the summer, I was able to reflect on my feelings on a deeper level and you know what, I don’t feel guilty anymore. I’m attracted to both men and women and me liking other women doesn’t make me a lesser Muslim. But the last few months have been difficult because suddenly, I have developed this innate desire to be with a woman. It’s coming from deep inside me and it’s inescapable. I don’t know why it’s happening but I know that I can’t act on these feelings - it’s out of the question. I feel alone at the moment. It’s why I’m here. I’m hoping that in sharing my story and connecting with people who I can relate to and understand me will help me in better organising what I feel.
Beeda....Hello and a let me give you a very LGBTQIA+ Welcome to Empty Closets! I usually post a welcome in the "Welcome Lounge" Forum, but when I saw your post there you mentioned that you had also made a post here in "Sexual Orientation" so I've picked up your story here instead. I often reply to members who are having trouble reconciling their sexuality with the faith that they have held to for many years. It's one of my important tasks here on EC. I do it because I had that exact problem when I finally accepted that I am and always have been gay. I had come to understand the absolute truth that I was gay, however, I also had a very strong faith. That faith had NOT been handed down to me from my parents. They basically had no faith. My faith was based completely on decisions that I had made myself. This left me with a very serious conflict. Unlike you, I am not Muslim, but my Christian faith was just as vehement in rejecting any LGBTQIA+ identity. It took me several years of intense study of Biblical passages in their original languages as well as reading a number of books on the subject to finally understand that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. The problem here for you is similar to mine. You have a major conflict between your faith and your sexuality, between what you internally know is true and what you've been taught. I just don't know enough about the Muslim faith to give you a lot of advice. Can you do something similar to what I did? Can you study the Qur'an carefully to confirm what it may or may not actually say about sexuality? Are there any books by Muslim authors that talk about this and which defend the LGBTQIA+ Community? These are questions that I don't have answers to, although I'll start a search. Perhaps between the two of us, we can find some answers! .....David
Hi David Thank you so much for the warm welcome and the kind message. I worried that my story was too long and bore people but I found it necessary to tell how I came to be here and for people like yourself, to better evaluate my predicament. As I was writing it, I could feel the compression I was feeling, loosening. Writing it down was proving to be a kind of therapeutic exercise in itself. I’ve never disclosed how I feel to anyone, and revealing intimate details of myself, sexually and emotionally, was daunting. But it was worth it because as soon as I posted it, a weight was lifted off my shoulders. I knew I was sharing my story with people who will understand me and not judge me and even relate to my story, as you’ve done. Admitting to myself that I’m bisexual was to finally acknowledge and accept that I like women - feelings that I’ve known were there for a long time. However, it also meant opening up the conflict between my sexuality and my religion. The Qur’an does condemn same-sex desires, especially between men: ‘Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people.’ But other than that, as far as I’m aware, there is nothing solid against homosexuality specifically. And that’s where the Hadiths come in - collection of Prophet Muhammad’s (pbuh) sayings and stories about his life which were written decades after his death. They are much more strict against homosexuality and even prescribe death to people who ‘commit’ those acts. But many scholars have speculated their authenticity as many of their passages contradict the Qur’an. So there’s a lot of grey area and it is open to various interpretations. As you’ve mentioned, the same could be said of the Bible and it’s teachings. Being a Muslim is also a fundamental part of who I am. The base principal of Islam is peace and tolerance with many passages in the Qur’an reminding us that essentially, a good Muslim is a good human being, one that also values diversity and inclusivity: ‘And if your Lord had willed, He could have made humankind into a single nation; but they will not cease to be diverse…. and for this God created them…’(Q. 11:118–119). There is divinity in diversity, so I feel there is reconciliation but most LGBTQIA+ Muslims are never allowed to believe that. My frustrations don’t, in the most part, stem from my faith but from people’s prejudices and ignorance. It means, there’s no prospect of me coming out to my family. I know they will never accept me liking women. My emotions have been all over the place lately, one moment I feel liberated because I’ve come out to myself, the next I feel trapped. It was becoming all-consuming and I realised I needed an outlet, a safe space, to express my emotions and already, thanks to you and others who’ve welcomed me here, I’m in a much more calmer place and looking forward to becoming a part of the EC community. So thank you x
Beeda.....I'm so glad that you have found us here on Empty Closets. We will do our best to help you in any way that we can. I'm not aware of anyone who has made a post recently that is also Muslim, but perhaps if there is someone they will see this series of posts and will join in. So many of our LGBTQIA+ Family have suffered over the years due to rejection by various religions and that hasn't changed a lot. We do have some affirming Christian Churches now, but the majority still reject us. I find it to be very special that you and I, even though we are separated by so many things in our lives, can nonetheless still accept a relationship in our LGBTQIA+ Family. .....David
Hi David Thank you so much for your support. You don’t know how much it means to me and like you said, it is very special that we can unite together as part of the LGBTQIA+ family x
Beeda, Thank you for this long and heartfelt message. I can relate with you in a number of levels. First, I was raised as a Muslim, by a deeply religious and extremely conservative Muslim household in a South Asian country. Unlike you, I am no longer a practicing Muslim. In fact I don't even believe in Islam and lean more towards agnosticism. Nevertheless, I still have to identify as a Muslim as it's in my name, passport and everywhere, and I do not want to deal with the repercussions of people attacking me for it. However, the difference is that since I personally don't believe or practice Islam, I don't really have to bother with what the Quran says. Islam is pretty clear on its stance on homosexuality, and while there are liberal interpretations available, I don't find them to be very strong and most seems to be very diluted by the pro-lgbt Muslim groups. That said, there are queer Muslims out there (I know a guy personally), so it's not impossible to reconcile them. But in my case it's easy for me personally, as I don't practice Islam. That said, I still have to deal with the religious and cultural baggage. My name starts with an Islamic name. it's pretty obvious I come from a South-Asian country. So it's difficult for me to express my sexuality as ... well ... people don't expect me to be gay considering I come from a Muslim family and country. And people will judge me a lot harshly than they would judge an ordinary Canadian. There's a large Muslim population here, and they often try to convince me to go to prayer or mosque etc, and I have to tell them no I don't practice Islam, and the judgemental looks can be difficult to endure. So frankly, even in Canada, I can't come out so easily due to my background. I lived in my home country (which is extremely homophobic) before moving to Canada. I have been living in Canada for 3 years now (well I am back in my home country for a short while, but I will be going back to Canada soon and settle there permanently). Canada is very liberal about LGBT issues. I am slowly starting to open up about my beliefs and sexuality, but I still have a long way to go to reach there. I am also out to my immediate family members, and most have been pretty accepting of it. Maybe not accepting ... but tolerant enough. They were the one who helped me go abroad so that I can have a proper gay life. I can empathize with your situation as it's very close to mine. I have a few questions for you: 1. I am assuming you are not out to your immediate family members. Do you want to come out? 2. How religious are your family members? 3. How knowledgeable they are about this LGBT issues? Can't you have normal conversations and try to stir them towards the LGBT issues and make them understand (without expressing about yourself)? Also: "I don’t know why it’s happening but I know that I can’t act on these feelings - it’s out of the question. I feel alone at the moment. It’s why I’m here" Well ... just curious, is it because of your Muslim background or because of your family or personal reason (i.e. you find it unfathomable due to your life circumstance). Feel free to message me on my profile or here if you need to talk.
Warrior999.....Thanks so much for reaching out to @Beeda! I was hoping that someone with a Muslim background would reply to that post. Perhaps we'll find others here on EC who will have that kind of experience and can help/encourage her. @Beeda, Warrior999 mentioned that you could make a post to his profile page. You'll have to have made, I believe it is at least 10 regular posts yourself before you can post on someone's profile page. If you have any questions, you can ask me. You can always make a private message to a staff member no matter how many posts that you have made! .....David
Though I don't personally practice or believe in Islam, I still come from that culture and have to carry my Muslim name and identity, so yeah ... I can sort of relate with her. As for posting in my wall, I think she already got 10+ votes based on her profile. I doubt there are many Muslims here though. I have a link to a Muslim forum for LGBTIQ. Am I allowed to post the link here?
Hi Warrior Thank you for your insightful and considerate post. I totally understand how frustrating it must be for you that, even though you live in a liberal LGBTQIA+ friendly society, you are still expected to conform to a certain set of ideals that are guided wholly by religion, rather than allowing you to live your life as you want. Many Muslims have a tendency to be very judgmental and I’m thankful my parents didn’t bring me up that way. For example, my dad taught me how to read the Qur’an at home because he didn’t agree with how Islam was being taught in the mosque in our town. They have also never dictated to me what I should or shouldn’t read and where I should or shouldn’t go. My dad has always encouraged me to expand my knowledge and most importantly, allowed me freedom to discover Islam in my own way (including, by exploring other faiths). So in that sense, I’m quite lucky compared to many other people who are suppressed by their religiously conservative parents. However, my family is very religious and I know they won’t accept my sexuality. And I worry how it will affect considering her already fragile mental state. It’s why, in the immediate term, I don’t want to come out. I feel I’m still quite raw and I don’t think I’m strong enough to handle that rejection but I’m not ruling it out - I would like to come out to them but when I feel the time is right. We have had conversations about LGBTQIA+ issues and even though my brothers and sister are tolerant, they have always made it clear that they don’t agree with it. And even though my mum can like a queer person, she can be quite hostile towards their sexuality. So there is a kind of a block that I feel, religiously and from my family that is feeding into me coming to the decision on why I can’t act on these feelings. But it’s personal as well, like I mentioned I’m not happy with my body and want to lose weight. I’m not completely shutting it out though, when the time comes - when I’m comfortable in my body, then yes, I might act on my feelings. There are many complications but what I don’t feel now is guilt. I think that’s a big thing for me. And the step I took to come here was an important one as well. So thank you for reaching out, your support means a lot. x
Hi David Yes, it was very generous of Warrior to reach out to me and I’m very grateful for it. And thanks again for your support. Because of it, I already feel at home here x
It's not just religion but also my previous culture/society which is a big deal. Even Hindus, Christians etc here are expected to marry, raise children etc. Also, since I went to Canada at a very late age (I was over 25), the integration /assimilation didn't happen as I liked. I am also very shy and introverted and socially awkward, so it isn't as easy a deal for me to express my sexual orientation as I feel uncomfortable talking about these things. But I am trying to reach there, someday. My parents are extremely religious too and were dead against LGBT issues. In fact after I showcased support for the LGBT group during the legalization of same sex marriage in USA (remember the rainbow filters). I remember her giving me a long lecture on this then and it causing a rift between us. But then I came out to her a few months later and it changed her (and my father) dramatically. She didn't even understand LGBT issues properly, it took her months (and many scientific articles like APA) to even understand the concept somewhat. She wasn't initially accepting of it. While she never shunned me for it, she was opposed to it. Then another year or so to be tolerant of it. Then another year or so to understand her is like that and will remain like that. Then agreeing to send me abroad so I can live my gay life. And though she may personally not like it, she is accepting of my life. Same for my father, who is extremely religious. My sister unfortunately was and remains homophobic, and isn't so verbal about it, and have come to accept that I am like that and will remain like that. So I have seen religious families changing after their families come out to them. That said, since you are bi and were in a relationship with a man before, it might be more difficult to understand. That's nice. I never felt guilty about anything I have done sexually. Maybe regretted the recklessness but not guilty. It's up to you and take your time.
You’re right about other cultures and traditions, which in the most part are dominated by heteronormative ideals. And it’s very interesting to read about your parents transition into accepting who you are. It gives me hope. I know it’s going to be difficult but in the end, I’m hoping it will be worth it. x
Yeah it was my parents who were the most adamant about sending me abroad. I was the one apprehensive and nervous, but they poured as much money and 'luxury' as possible so I can settle in Canada. I initially went to study so it cost a lot and they helped me in it just so I can find a good life. They personally do not like it, so I wouldn't say accept, but yes they are tolerant of it.
@Beeda & @Warrior999..... So glad the two of you are able to talk to each other! Keep it up and I still hope there will be others who feel the same as you do who will join in the conversation. This is one of the big reasons that EC exists. I am so happy that you have found someone to share with who understands each others background! .....David
