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"Private" vs Public sexuality question

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by Searching2022, Jul 2, 2022.

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  1. Searching2022

    Searching2022
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    I am sorry to hear she died.
    But you had a girlfriend and you were attracted to her? So how did you realize you were gay?
     
    #21 Searching2022, Jul 10, 2022
  2. Searching2022

    Searching2022
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    But can someone have these fantasies and still be straight? Are there other reasons for them and other reasons for not having as intense ones about women? I don't think I consciously 'tried' to start looking at women like I do but I do feel like something 'blocks' me at home trying to fantasize about them, like low self esteem or something.
     
    #22 Searching2022, Jul 10, 2022
  3. Searching2022

    Searching2022
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    Leaving sex out of it -are we defined by our fantasies?
    Let's say I had an unwanted sexual fantasy that I thought was not a reflection of me. Let's say I admired beautiful women on the street but only fantasized about fat ugly women - by these terms I mean my personal judgement and that I don't find attractive IRL- and I didn't feel good about that.
    Or lets say a woman fantasizes about being raped, does that mean she wants to be raped in real life? Or should she get help for that fantasy?

    I am not saying the above exactly describes me but in this case, I could see people saying "I don't like this fantasy it is not who I am".
     
    #23 Searching2022, Jul 10, 2022
  4. Searching2022

    Searching2022
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    I found some sites and articles that have a different take...but seem to make sense for me...

    However, Dr. Joe Kort, a sex therapist and educator who specializes in sexual identity concerns and LGBTQIA-affirmative therapy (he is also a gay man himself), suggests a different reason. Dr. Kort teaches that there’s a difference between sexual orientation and erotic orientation. He says, “sexual orientation is how you self-identify as gay, straight, bisexual or anywhere in between. Erotic orientation reflects your sexual fantasies, desires and behaviors.”

    Sexual orientation is who you’re attracted to, and erotic orientation is the things that turn you on and bring you to orgasm. Our sexual and erotic orientations may not always match. We may fantasize about behaviors or things that we wouldn’t actually want to try in real life.
    https://www.emma-schmidt.com/sexual-orientation-vs-erotic-orientation/

    https://joekort.com/lisa-diamond-arousal-desire-emotions-and-love/
     
    #24 Searching2022, Jul 10, 2022
  5. Chip

    Chip
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    That's usually an indication of denial. In the early stages of coming out (remember the 5 stages, denial-anger-bargaining-depression-acceptance), it isn't at all uncommon for people who are gay to be disgusted and revolted and otherwise totally unhappy about the unconscious drives that are influencing what they are attracted to. But it doesn't change what is.

    Without going into a lot of detail, both of these would almost certainly be psychological issues unrelated to sexual orientation.

    That, as you describe it, is exactly what happens for folks who are in the denial stage of the stages of loss. I'm not saying this is what's going on for you in particular, but that's a textbook classic presentation.
     
    #25 Chip, Jul 10, 2022
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  6. Chip

    Chip
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    I know Joe. He's a great guy, and I recommend one of his books and have a lot of respect for him. But he's a clinician, not a researcher, and what he says is based on his personal experience with clients. Theres's a lot I agree with him on, and some I disagree on. This is one of the places I disagree. The research doesn't support what he says.

    As for Lisa Diamond... none of her work has ever been replicated, and much of it has been contradicted by other research. She stands pretty much alone in a lot of her opinions, so I don't give her much credence. Emma Schmidt's work I am not familiar with, but will look when I get a chance.

    Unfortunately , there's an awful lot of bullshit going around right now which has little to no basis in credible science or research, but a small-but-loud contingent is selling a lot of it. I believe it is a huge disservice to the community at large, because it's basically built on accepting absolutely anything at face value, and usually the spokespeople are are not clinicians or researchers, and often have no idea of the complicated and nuanced secondary factors that influence all of this.
     
    #26 Chip, Jul 10, 2022
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  7. Chip

    Chip
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    Is there some reason, somewhere, that might justify this? Probably. Is it common? No. There's an old saying that's applicable here: "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras."

    Or being gay and not wanting to accept it.
     
    #27 Chip, Jul 10, 2022
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  8. Robyn mac

    Robyn mac
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    My girlfriend and I were together for many years. Pretty much lived together in her apartment although I had my own also at the time. In the summer I like to visit a nude beach close to my apartment. .The beach is a family beach keep walking ther is an unofficial nude area and keep walking past that is the gay area. Anyway I took her to the nude area I was standing at the waters edge. She was at the blanket about 40 feet away. These two men walk up next to me and we start talking . One of the men was uncut and had a foreskin that hung over his penis by a few inches. I could'nt stop looking at him and I got phyically aroused by him . All I could think was how I wanted him. Back at the blanket she is watching all this happening. When I got back to the blanket she had asked whats all my excitement about. We have always beeen honest with each other and can say anything. I told her the truth and we had a conversation asking me if I am gay or bi. No arugement just a conversation again on the way home.
    She had arranged for me a date with her gay hairdresser that she had been going to for years. It was for me to have have time with someone to talk about what happened and about sexuality. It was also a pass to experiment. We went back to his place had a deeper conversation than we could have in public. Things got phyiscal and it has changed my life forever.
    We both told her everything and I came out as bi. We lived together for a few more years until her passing. Since then I live my life as a gay man.
     
    #28 Robyn mac, Jul 11, 2022
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  9. Robyn mac

    Robyn mac
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    Coming out and realizing I was bi was such a relief. For the first time I really understood sex and finally enjoyed it. I never felt comfortable durning sex with women. I even had a wife for 20 years and never really enjoyed sex. It felt like a chore.
    Now with men I am so comfortable. I feel uphoria ( is there spell checck up here somewhere). Joy , relaxed and knowing in my mind I should have been doing this in my youth. Why did I waste so many years.
    UNTIL THAT MOMENT ON THE BEACH I HAD NO INTREST IN MEN.
    If you are questioning yourself it is for a real true meaning. Enbrace yourself and take that first step. You will sleep better at night.
     
    #29 Robyn mac, Jul 11, 2022
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  10. Sadness

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    This is actually a question i do have a lot of times, i’m not going to spend much time here because maybe we’re in different situations.

    but what do you truly feel when trying masturbating to woman?

    i already tried fantasizing with men for a long long time, and even thought i have gotten hard, it’s kind hard, feels like something i dont want to do, but like i’ve said, we’re in different situations i think

    do you obsess too much over it?

    These days i took chips advice and tried to think about the possibility of having a relationship with someone that truly loved me. And it was awesome, it’s very different from what i would normally do, i thought about a girl i used to love and felt really really good

    so do you have someone you already loved? Or someone that you have a real crush on? Maybe try thinking about them and see what happens
     
    #30 Sadness, Jul 11, 2022
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  11. Engdood1

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    I’m not out and I think may have some of the same issues as you but if I try and masturbate thinking about a woman my brain asks why am I doing this? It doesn’t turn me on at all. When I’m thinking about a man I don’t have to touch myself, I just get hard. Conversely all the touching and running might still not get the job done when I’m thinking about a woman.
     
    #31 Engdood1, Jul 13, 2022
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  12. Searching2022

    Searching2022
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    Its like I like the idea of it but I have no gronial response.

    and this too.
    yes this happens to me too.
    Honestly I get super aroused, I fantasize about giving blow jobs and having a man give me anal intercourse.

    Yes because it seems like a baffling circles outside get aroused and horny about women , repulsed by the idea of men and none are attractive to me- inside alone - get aroused by gay fantasies like they just take over.
     
    #32 Searching2022, Jul 13, 2022
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  13. Searching2022

    Searching2022
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    See -this has never happened to me IRL
    I never thought about it but ... yes i have felt this way often.
     
    #33 Searching2022, Jul 13, 2022
  14. Searching2022

    Searching2022
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    Ok, what you're saying could be what's going on. But I have read many stories here - and most guys that I know of said they could have sex with women but weren't aroused like I am when I see women in real life.


    On the other hand :slight_smile: Joe makes sense to me too - which is I guess where i am confused. If I really think I feel that way when outside (I am straight and like women) and fantasize when I am inside (again feelings) then feelings aren't helping me much or clouding the real me - where Joe's explanations might explain this conflict.


    Emma's Therapy site was just quoting both - I don't know much about it or her.
    but it does seem to me that the idea of fluidity is pretty common and I see it on this site a lot too.



    You may some very good points and I truly appreciate you being honest and direct with me.
     
    #34 Searching2022, Jul 13, 2022
  15. Searching2022

    Searching2022
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    But this is how it feels to me. IF I saw men I got aroused and excited by all the time -like I see with women all the time- then, well there wouldn't be much to figure out!
    Let's say I am at the gym lots of fit women and men - the women - I have to keep from NOT unconsciously staring and I often get super excited when I see them. Men don't do anything for me. I could notice a guy and say 'yeah he's fit' or 'He's a good looking guy' - but I have never wanted to touch them or feel their sexual areas like I do with a woman.

    At home it feels like a complete escape and almost like becoming another person.
     
    #35 Searching2022, Jul 13, 2022
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  16. Searching2022

    Searching2022
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    But what about in real life, are you attracted to men, women, both?
     
    #36 Searching2022, Jul 13, 2022
  17. Chip

    Chip
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    So what this seems to boil down to is, you are asking for opinions, don't like what you are hearing, and keep saying "But I'm different."

    Maybe you are.

    But I continue to say that what you are describing is a pretty textbook classic example of the sort of unconscious/conscious mind bind that is pretty common as people are coming to terms with themselves.

    The truth is, no amount of tapdancing around what people are telling you is going to change whatever your ultimate truth is. (And to be clear, I don't know what that truth is for sure.)

    What you are aroused by when you masturbate... that's where your sexual fantasies are, and where your sexual orientation is. All of that is mostly controlled by the unconscious. This is especially true of folks who are in denial. If you want to solve the problem, and are single, try masturbating only to guys for in one session (no porn, just fantasy.) Then, the following session switch to only girls. That should give you a pretty clear indication. You can argue about what you're doing when you are out and about all you want, but what really matters is where your fantasies lie.

    If you find that the masturbation fantasies are stronger about guys, then the next step is to try hooking up with a guy (assuming you are single, or, if in a relationship, that you have discussed this and your partner is OK with it... integrity is important.)

    There really isn't much anyone else can tell you or say for you to get any further clarity until you do the work yourself.
     
    #37 Chip, Jul 14, 2022
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  18. Searching2022

    Searching2022
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    Ok honestly, its a lot more work to get aroused about women, in fact I go limp, though occasionally I will have a strong fantasy, most of the time about 90% it's about guys...

    Yes, they are much more intense. I guess I just consider them in my head because I don't see guys who appeal to me like that in IRL.


    Thank you for your answers,as I said I appreciate your honesty and non-sugar coated response.
    if you dont' mind answer one more question - what in your opinion is the reason I seem to want unconsciously/automatically sexually touch women when I am out?
     
    #38 Searching2022, Jul 14, 2022
  19. Searching2022

    Searching2022
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    On another thread I asked another unsure poster what he mostly fantasized about, he replied:
    Both, yes. I fantasize about it and it’s the only thing that gives me an erection. Gay stuff does nothing for me sexually beyond an erotic, emotional appeal.
    My reply was:
    If you get sexually aroused by women and its the only thing that gives an erection then at the very least being gay doesn't sound likely

    Immediately when I read his reaction, I thought- he's straight,l damn I wish that was my answer. So I can see how I might have different standards for how I am judging my own sexuality.
     
    #39 Searching2022, Jul 14, 2022
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  20. Chip

    Chip
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    The crazy thing is, I hear this exact thing all the time -- in fact, if you dig through the 'later in life' section or this forum, you'll probably come across a bunch of threads of other folks saying the same thing you are. And what seems to happen for them is, pretty much as soon as they begin to acknowledge that the same-sex attraction is real, and not imagined, most describe it like a switch flipping... suddenly, they do find men IRL that they are attracted to.

    If I were to guess, I'd imagine that the conscious mind is so strong that it's suppressing the attraction to men... and once conscious mind accepts the truth, and that barrier comes down, attraction to the same sex suddenly becomes very present and often very intense.

    Probably part of the same denial mechanism. Part of the bargaining. "I can't be gay. I still want to touch women." It's the same reason many guys who later figure out they're gay date women in high school... and not just because the women serve as a beard. They genuinely think they're straight, until one day they figure out they aren't.

    Denial can be incredibly powerful. And the bitch is... because of the nature of how it works, we are generally completely unaware that we are in denial when we are in denial. :grin:
     
    #40 Chip, Jul 15, 2022
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