This is something I'm still learning. You see, I find as I uncover myself from all the wreckage that I love people. I really do, I love humans. I wish the best in people. I want to believe that everyone is willing to learn like I am, but they aren't. I remember what it was like to be them, though. I, too, held some very bigoted beliefs once, mostly when I was a child. The reality of bigotry is that it is moored in ignorance and powered by fear. That ignorance can be layered in service of fueling the engine - the fear that drives it. I feel sorry for them, in a way, but I also still don't quite know how to deal with them. I want to change their minds, to prove them wrong, to make them like me in order to help erase their fear... all at once. Which is ridiculous and impossible. Since the best I can do is try to lessen their fear, I suppose that must be the choice. But it hurts me, more deeply than it should, when I am confronted with bigotry in those I trusted. Such an occurrence came recently; silly of me to get my dander up on Facebook of all places, but I probed, not gently as I didn't feel the need, but not violently either. The toxicity that came spilling out unabated was gross, like watching fetid pus shoot out of a wound that'd been poked with a needle. Then came the approval, the sycophants lapping it up and telling me I'm the fool for not sharing it with them. I almost wanted to copy the post, because it's a perfect example of the kind of justifications people get for their contempt of transpeople, but I got blocked for not showing immediate and obvious approval. Or maybe I just wanted to share it because I don't want to waste my time trying to compose a rational argument tailored against it, because it's just pieces of the same bullshit people keep throwing in our faces, over and over again, and I'm fucking tired. I'm so fucking tired, guys... The point of this ultimately: DO NOT ENGAGE THE BIGOTS. You will not change their mind significantly enough to justify the drain of energy or the amount of pain and shame they will impose on you, and some - if they can't hurt your feelings - will take out their frustrations on you with their fists. Cut them out. That's all that we can do right now. I hate that, because it leaves them solely to the ones poisoning them against us, but you don't have to suffer their venom. Let them drown in it; don't let them take you down with them.
DragonChaser.....Something that I learned by working with large groups of people over the years is that, when someone has made up their mind based on emotions, no amount of facts will be likely to change it. It's a rare person who will listen to your facts and then go ahead and say; "Wow, you right, I think I was wrong!". I don't think I can remember that ever happening! So it's basically a waste of time entering into a "conversation" with someone on a topic like politics, LGBTQIA+ Issues, Global Warming, etc. when they have already made an emotional decision. "There is no such thing as Global Warming" is generally an emotional decision and you are so unlikely to change it that the breath you expend talking to someone about it will only contribute to Global Warming, but not change anyone's mind! So I don't think your FB conversation was every likely to have a positive outcome...sorry about that. It would probably be best to just save your energy when it comes to those kinds of conversations. We can wish it was different, but until the facts are so blatant that they can't be ignored (and some will still try) it's sadly a waste of time. .....David
David, you never have to apologize for being honest with me! That's the highest form of respect, and I appreciate it! I will say I knew going in that it was a triviality, but what I anticipated from it was a "Yes, I disagree with you, but have decorum sufficient not to make a big deal out of it in front of everyone we mutually know," and what I got was a toxic font of bullshit about how "Transwomen get prostate exams, ergo science says they're delusion but liberal cucks etc, etc..." It left me stunned and reminded me, for all the bridges I've tried to build, sometimes there's nothing on the other side of the river worth connecting to. Yes, it's Facebook, I know, and I basically got what I deserve for asking a "CHARGED" question, but I'm done with bigots and their craven whining.
This is exactly why I avoid F******* and the like, Lydia. I think it is possible to have a proper conversation with a bigot, but only face to face. Indeed, earlier this year I came out to one of my oldest friends, who has sadly in middle age gone down the whole pro-Trump, anti-'woke' rabbit hole. He was actually ok with me, which was a very pleasant surprise. It's the anonymity of digital communication that leads to people doubling down on their views - people will say things to you online that they never would to your face - but hey you know all that anyway! Beth x
@DragonChaser I just wanted to send you a hug! Facebook is lethal! I left there because it’s an open sewer of narrow minded bigots. I too have been ignorant in the past on many subjects and I fully admit I’ve been stubborn. But a willingness to learn, have empathy and compassion is what makes us evolve in kindness. It’s the only way. We learn from each other. Some are so closed down they will never change. Sad for them really. You keep being the wonderful human being that you are and don’t fall into the traps of the ignorant who hide behind their screens on Facebook. more hugs
You make the point better than I ever could! When I was 11 I believed myself to be "one of the good ones" and I was met with people trying to help to get me out, but there is no right way to go about it. Forcefully trying to change someone might just push them further back! For me it took just natural questioning, I had to seek out the answers myself, or else I felt like I was being lectured by a parent, or worse, talked down to. If someone refused to give up on me, I probably wouldn't be here right now. Of course, I'm not everyone, "might" doesn't mean "is going to". But either way, the bigots are usually not worth talking to, from my experience they're not using making a conclusion based on facts, they're making facts based on a conclusion.
Yeah, it took me 2 years to learn the hard way that engaging with constant bad-faith arguments to try and at least get the argument to a good-faith debate isn't worth my college career, my energy, health mentally or physically, and nor is any amount of "trying to be nice" going to guarantee that someone sees the good in what's being said. I have to pick and choose my battles. Someone may be on the fence on something, or someone may actually be confused or curious. It's when this happens, that I start to engage, and I'll see the rewards of that a little further down the line. So, I can't say "never engage with bigots" as a hard and fast rule, but when I can't see the argument being in good faith (which is very common), I can say never to engage with. Those people will have to figure things out their own way.
I've not usually directly engaged with people like this, especially online, but some general comments I've seen over the years - on youtube, news sites etc, have literally caused my faith in humanity to vanish in an instant. Sometimes it takes a whole day or two to recover from what I'm sometimes shocked to find are real human opinions out there. Whether their comments are misogynist, anti-"woke" or whatever, like a lot of other posters here have said it's almost impossible to combat potentially years and years of irrational built up anger with facts and logic. It speaks volumes about you as a person that you care enough to wish these people well and hope they change their minds and become more rounded people, but please protect yourself first and foremost.
