I have been here on EC about 5 months now. I’m a older guy, in my 60s, married, not out to my wife, but have been out to myself for as long as I can remember. So I guess for labeling purposes I have been closeted for many years but not ever been in self denial. When I fell in love (no other way to describe it) with the guy who I call “my friend” in some of my other posts, I obviously came out to him. He is a life long gay man, by personality quite reserved and discreet. Possibly a few of his friends who I have met may assume now that I am gay, or bi, I’m not sure (and honestly I’m not concerned about). But... I’m going to have lunch next week with a guy who I have known for over 30 years. I will call him “F”. We used to work together way back. I have always liked F, very open, gregarious, fun. Never attracted to him physically, but just enjoyed working with him, and some group socializing after work. F was and is always the life of the party. F met an older guy, moved away, and went on to have a 30 year relationship with him. They moved back a few years ago when his partner retired. Just by chance I ran into them one day while shopping, that’s how I knew they were living here again. We got together for lunch a few times, so I finally got to know a bit about F’s partner and see them interact together. Nice couple. Anyway, F’s partner passed away in early 2019. I had lunch a couple times with F prior to the pandemic, but when the restaurants closed, we stopped. Now that things are opening up, and we both have been vaccinated, we have been planning for lunch again. I would like to come out to F. I’m not interested in a relationship with him, I just think it would be good for me to be able to talk openly with him about my sexuality. I consider F to have a good heart, and to be thoughtful. My only hesitation is because of his gregarious personality — he knows so many people, in so many social circles. When we have lunch, he gets me caught up with every single person that we have known over the years, because he stays in touch with all of them. Any advice? I know there are some of you who think I should come out to my wife first of all. I am just not there yet. My view is that coming out to her will not go well at all. So my question concerns my upcoming lunch with F. I appreciate any thoughts or experiences you share. Thanks
old tacoma.....Who you come out to and when you come out to them is absolutely up to you. It's your choice. I didn't come out to my wife first. In fact when I first came out I made the comment that I would never tell my wife that I was gay. That did change and she has accepted me, but that happened 18 months after I first came out. The big issue here is what happens if you come out to your friend and then somehow your wife finds out. That could be a problem. So I guess you need to think about that. However...don't let others dictate how, when or to whom you come out...that decision is yours and yours alone. That is why it is so terrible when someone get outed. .....David
Thanks, David. Yes, I very much understand that the decision is mine alone. The few guys who know already, well they know for very personal obvious reasons, but this guy, F, is different because I have known him so very long. Since the passing of his partner, I know he is (finally) back out dating. As I wrote, I’m not personally interested in dating him, but I wouldn’t be adverse to introducing him to some guys I know who he might like. The question might be, how do I know them? Right now, I’m just thinking out loud, seeing myself in the situation and how my answers sound to me.
Are you saying you're worried he may out you to those other people? Since you've known him a very long time, I assume you don't think he would do so intentionally.... I think if I were you I'd go with my gut on it. Only you can say whether you trust him enough to keep it private, and if the risks are worth the benefits. I think what you're doing is wise advice for anyone in your position. I hope your lunch goes well whether you decide to tell him or not! I hope you'll keep us posted.
@Lesbee — Yes, you are correct, “F” would never intentionally out me. So I’m going over several different approaches for bringing up the discussion with him. Assuming I can bring it up.... At our last lunch, he was so excited to tell me about his trip to Carnaval in Rio that I could barely get a word in! Like I said, he’s gregarious. He had quite a lot of photos to share, and a few short videos of him dancing with the crowds in the streets. Wild as the Carnaval was, “F” told me that no one on the trip (they were with a group) knew just how sick his partner was. They all had a great time, and it was just a couple months after they returned home that his partner passed away.
It’s so valuable to have people to talk to who support you. I even think it’s crucial for mental health. If you don’t think he would intentionally out you, he may be a nice friend to have in your circle. I also have a friend like this (have known her 20 years), although she was married to a man, kids same age as mine, then left him and married a woman. She’s been invaluable in sorting through this transition. In the event that your wife did find out, F might be a great support. The thing that I keep wondering is how might his mental state be? His very long term partner passes in early 2019 after an illness, he’s naturally gregarious and grieving, then the pandemic happens. I’ve noticed that people in general are lonely, bored, and seem to be craving authentic human connection. Or, maybe they’ve been going out and not much has changed for them. Could create a situation like the one with Carnival, which you sound prepared for, or one where he’s open to a different connection. Not sexual/romantic more human to human. There could be opportunity to deepen the friendship.
It’s just past 5 in the morning here and I have been wide awake for over 2 hours now. I woke up on my own (no alarm clock) and started thinking about tomorrow and my upcoming lunch with “F”, my long time gay friend. It’s been an interesting few days for me lately. I have met up with my friend (the guy I have told I love) several times in the past week while I was out walking. (I guess for clarity I should call him “B”.) Anyway, I decided to ask “F” if he would be ok if I invited my friend “B” to our lunch. And of course, “F” said yes, in sync with his gregarious nature. So, I then asked “B” if he would like to meet “F”. Based on what I have told him, he said yes. “He sounds like such a hoot!” is what “B” said. So I have managed to set up this interesting scenario — 3 guys getting together for lunch at a Chinese Dim Sum restaurant. “F” my long time gay friend, recently single (widowed) after a long term relationship, “B” my friend who I fell in love with two years ago and who I admit (and he knows it) I still feel seriously attracted to although we no longer are intimate, and me pondering this scenario as way to come out to “F”. As I said to “B” as we walking yesterday, “It’s very possible you already have met “F” since you know so many guys.” I said it with a “wink, wink” and he laughed. I’m kind of excited about the lunch, and a little terrified. “F” has known me for so long I am anxious about how he will respond. “B” has known me very intimately and he has a bit of a flirt inside him, so I have no idea what he might say and do. And finally myself, looking to both of these guys for support in my journey. But in this interesting mix of personalities, I think this lunch is probably an excellent setting for me to take this one more step.
old tacoma.....You absolutely MUST fill us in on how all of this drama works out! Seriously...I hope that the three of you have a wonderful time!! .....David :gay_pride-flag:
My lunch yesterday with “F” and “B” went well, I’d say. And this morning I am completely exhausted. I knew I was stressing out, but now I realize how much so. We all met as planned at the restaurant. F lives nearby, while B and I drove in from our part of the island. B and I live fairly close (just about 2 miles), but since our plans for after lunch were undecided, B and I drove in separately. B and I met outside the restaurant. F was already seated inside. Apparently F knows the restaurant owner because F and his late husband ate at the restaurant quite often. So she and F had some catching up to do. The restaurant had all the pandemic protocols in place, so that was a relief. I introduced F and B to each other, and we were off.... F ordered our food since he obviously knew the menu front to back, and we started to chat. F and B seemed to get along fine, even if a bit hesitant. No problem, F took over the conversation as I thought he would, and I started to relax a little. We made it all the way through lunch and we were waiting for our desserts before I finally said, “Well F, I want to tell you that this is a coming out lunch of sorts for me. B already knows that I am gay. And I want you to know too.” And I mentioned why, that because F and I have known each for so long, I felt like F could be a help for me, etc. He looked at me, and said, “I’m honored.” He asked about my wife and my son, and I gave him my honest assessment of my situation. He wasn’t surprised, and was very reassuring. As we eating our desserts, F was talking about when and how he came out. That was very interesting for me. I thought he was gay from the first day I worked with him, and I told him so, but he said it was only about two years later, when he met his late partner, that he actually came out. So pretty much the entire time we worked together I assumed F was gay and yet he was not out. F asked me how did I know, and I joked I must have good Gaydar! We talked about a couple other guys we worked with way back then, who I thought were gay, guys who had girlfriends at the time (F never did), and F, who has stayed in contact with practically everyone, told me that both of them have come out. (In my mind I thought why did I think these guys were gay?) Then we talked about guys we both knew that we found attractive, and I got an idea of F’s type of guys. Definitely not the same as me. And I looked at F and told him that I am attracted to guys like, well honestly, guys like B, and I made nod to B across the table. I may have crossed a line with B on that, but I thought afterwards that since I’m being upfront about my orientation, I need to be upfront about my attraction. Our lunch ended, F left and walked back to his place. B said he was going to walk in a nearby park along the beach, so I asked him if he would like me to walk with him, and he said he yes. Actually, he said it’d be great! So we walked off our lunch, for about 3 hours together. It was a good day. By the way, the dim sum was excellent!
Yay!! Oh this warms me right up. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm so glad the day and conversation went so smoothly. Thank you for taking us along for your journey!
Last night I was chatting online with F, my long time gay friend, who I came out to earlier this month. I saw him once more for lunch last week, just the two of us, since B was getting his second vaccination shot. Anyway, last night F was chatting away all kinds of funny stuff, sharing things he has found online, when out of the blue he wrote, “Where are you going to stay if things don’t go well?” I told him I don’t know, I hadn’t really thought about it. He replied, “I want you to know that you can stay here with me if you need to.” I was stunned. He joked about him not being my type of guy with all his chatter and being so outgoing, but he said, “You have a lot on your plate right now and if you need a safe place, it’s here.” Talk about a humbling moment.
I've only come out to a few female friends who probably knew anyway. I'm just not all that comfortable talking about it.
I had lunch again today with F, my long time gay friend. Getting together with him has really been a help to me. He is providing me with a much needed perspective on B, the guy I have mentioned here in my posts. F had a very long relationship with a guy who sadly died of cancer. It’s good for me to hear how F ‘puts himself out there’ after so many years in a relationship. F is so much more grounded than B. By comparison, B seems kind of messed up. I still feel the same for B that I have since we first met, but with F’s perspective, I am now in a better frame of mind, and with an improved outlook. I’m settling in to my new life and it’s good - not necessarily moving along as fast as I would like, but methodically progressing one day at a time.
@quebec — Thank you for your ‘likes this’ notation. A couple of times I have thought about sending you a PM, but I haven’t figured out how to do it.
I have some free time today so I thought I’d update this thread about my long time gay friend, F. We have been texting frequently and continue to get together for lunch on a regular basis. It’s been so good for me to have him as a friend. F will be traveling next week to the mainland to attend a family wedding and to vacation with one of his long time gay friends. F asked me to take care of his condo while he is gone for a month. I am truly honored. He has a great place. I won’t be staying there, just watering F’s plants, picking up his mail, running his car, etc. When F’s late partner passed away, he left behind an extensive collection of first edition rare books, so I plan to spend some time reading while I’m at the condo. I’m looking forward to it. When F returns, his vacation will continue here in Hawaii with this same long time gay friend he will be with on the mainland. His name is S and I will get to meet him. S is also widowed like F. Could there be something developing between the two of them? I sincerely hope so because I have had several conversations with F. F likes S, but he has sworn me to secrecy. I know F is ready for a new relationship. I don’t yet know S, but I’m sure he couldn’t find a better guy than F.
