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Realizing that I have inner turmoil and it's destroying me

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by jjusa, Feb 4, 2021.

  1. jjusa

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    Thanks @silverhalo. I’m realizing that all I ever do is make short term fixes. I keep thinking that continuing to stay busy and finding distractions are the solution because that’s what everyone is telling me to do, but then I would fall into depression like once a week and wonder what is so wrong with me that I cant connect to other people.

    I’ve gone through a lot of posts on EC, and unfortunately I can’t find stories that are similar to my own. Which now makes me doubt myself a little. The queer women on here seem to have no problem connecting emotionally to other women. Not that it doesn’t make sense. Women tend to connect better emotionally to other women. I’m the exception it seems because I don’t have the ability to connect in that way. If I can’t relate to other queer women, I’m not sure I belong in the queer camp.

    Most of conversations on here are about people not being one hundred percent sure of their orientation, their concern about reactions from the outside world, or how to navigate the relationships they are already in. I guess I am in my own camp. I may look elsewhere or talk to other people in real life and see how they conceptualize my situation. Thank you for all the advice, it’s helped me a lot.
     
  2. jjusa

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    I’m sorry you’ve been through such awful relation/friendships. I’m the opposite in that because I’ve had such abusive and awful friendships that I feel I don’t deserve new ones so I keep to myself, isolate and avoid relationships. Subconsciously I think try to avoid abusive situations but then I end up focusing my attention on abusive people. Maybe subconsciously I think I can “save” them.

    I’m fortunate I have never been in an abusive relationship, and I can’t imagine what that must feel like. What has resulted in my avoidance is that I no longer feel connection to other people anymore. It’s pretty much gone. Your trust in other people is less and less and you wonder why bother trying to connect.

    I’m really glad you are working on yourself and that mindfulness has been beneficial for you. I’m trying to get into meditation (mostly just listening to meditation music and breathing) which is not the same thing but I’m hoping that eventually I can be at peace with myself.
     
  3. RD Spencer

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    @jjusa

    Your situation sounds in some ways similar to mine. While being a male and always have had a mix male and female sexual desires and fantasies (seem to lean a bit more towards males) I haven’t had much of any romantic feelings towards any guys.

    The bad experiences with guys out weight the good. There was not just bullying but also rejection as a friend and a lack of ability to connect because of personality differences. I don’t trust other guys and tend to see more of the negative in them. Every time I encounter a guy who acts like an A-hole it reinforces my belief that most guys are like that and thats all they have to offer. Had a small hand full of friends when I was younger but now those friends have faded away and I have little desire to pursue any new friendships. I have always gotten along with women better. They are much easier to talk to, connect with and had generally been much nicer people than guys. A lot of this is probably why I have only had romantic feelings and fallen is love with women.
     
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  4. jjusa

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    @RD Spencer wow, you’re right, our situation is very similar! Obviously it’s a reversal in my situation but with similar experiences.

    I don’t trust girls and I always see the negative in them, even if I am drawn to them. I was a tomboy growing up so I always had guys friends and generally got along a lot better with guys. I feel like I can let loose more and be more myself because there wasn’t any awkward tension there. I’m a pretty opinionated, curious and passionate person and girls tend to not have interest in having enthusiasm for anything (sorry ladies). Not that all women are like that, but most of the women I’ve met are exactly like that. Guys tend to be more interested and match with my personality (similar to your situation). It’s like when a child shows her parent how excited she is for getting an A on a test and the parent is focused on something else.

    Girls were outright cruel to me and I could never see them in a positive light. If they were nice to me I’d think they were faking it. I would get hot and bothered, panic a lot around girls and try not to look at them in locker-room situations, and this fueled my confusion about my sexuality. That’s where I get that inner conflict of why am I acting this way around girls but I also feel negative emotions at the same time. I’ve tried to picture a romantic relationship with another girl and all I can feel is discomfort, panic or emotional numbness/detachment. I just don’t trust girls.

    With guys I never saw them in a romantic way, only platonic or close emotional friendships. It wasn’t until college when I developed a crush on a guy friend. We kissed once and I actually wanted to kiss him, unlike the other guys I dated. I actually felt like I was in love with him. I started to question if that was even real years later though. I can only picture myself in a romantic relationship with a guy. I would get positive happy feelings in my romantic fantasies. In real life however, I am now disinterested (in dating anyone really) and wouldn’t go out of my way to pursue a boyfriend. I only hold out for hope that I will fall in love with a guy after getting to know him for a while and everything will fall into place.
     
  5. RD Spencer

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    It seems like in school, particularly grade school, kids can be very intolerant of those who are different. If you are a boy you are expected to act like one and a girl is expected to act like a girl. Those who are different better conform or else.
    It became automatic to expect the worst from other males, to keep a distance from them and not trust them.
    Over the years I gotten better at fitting in but I still feel like I am too different to connect with the other guys with some exceptions.


    Under these circumstances it would be pretty hard to have any positive feelings towards guys much less romantic feeling.


    Apparently the same sex desires still push through in high sexual arousal but are none existent otherwise and since I had only felt romantic towards women so I figured that was the sign that I was meant to only be with them even though I had questioned my sexuality since my early teens.


    Reading post here on EC I have just recently learned that the same sex fantasies are much more significant than I had realized. Still I have plenty of desires for women as well and have done just fine married to my wife.

    This however is not the case for everyone.
     
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  6. jjusa

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    I understand. It's something about our society too, that guys must compete with other guys and girls must compete with other girls. It would be very difficult for me to say that I have romantic feelings or am "in love" with another girl because I normally carry negative emotions towards girls. It just wouldn't feel real to me. Then I wonder why I can't stop thinking about another girl - kissing, sex, all that stuff. It all feels very invasive like my mind is playing tricks on me.

    Flash forward to real life and, "Oh there's no way I can do a relationship with a girl. Wow I'm so stupid. Why would I like someone who treats me like shit, who treats other people like shit, and is so shallow there is no deep end?" It's like no wonder I only have one female friend in my life now.

    I'm not happy with my conflicted feelings about girls, but I also don't get positive feelings when picturing a relationship. Why? I don't feel comfortable being myself around other girls. Like you, I feel I am too different when it comes to connecting with other girls. HOWEVER I'm also not happy not doing anything at all. I have sexual fantasies about girls but I'm at a point in my life where I'm too depressed, insecure and anxious to do the actual behavior. I'm also not sure of who I am and who I like. I'm overall angry with and done with girls. It's like what do I do with all of this information? Lol.

    As long as you desire and care for your current partner and are happy, then that's a fine place to be in. :slight_smile:

    I get conflicting messages about same sex fantasies. Some people tell me they don't mean anything while others say they are indicators of your sexual orientation. So I ask, which is it?
     
    #26 jjusa, Feb 8, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
  7. jjusa

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    I deeply worry that my negative emotions towards girls will never go away. :frowning2: but I hate girls so much. :frowning2:
     
  8. RD Spencer

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    The advisors here on EC believe the fantasies are significant.


    Even under my circumstances with guys and having plenty of desire towards women I was never able to convince myself that I was straight because of the same sex fantasies. Over all I fantasize of both often.


    For someone who only fantasies about one sex, can they still be aroused by the other?

    Generally romantic and sexual desire is what separates a friendship from a relationship.

    Another thing to consider is that The importance of sex in a relationship varies among different people.
     
  9. jjusa

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    If you are bisexual then definitely. I’ve never been aroused by the opposite sex. Only the same sex, but I don’t want a romantic relationship with someone the same sex. Anything about me that is remotely not straight is my sexual fantasies and I think that is it. Nothing more then that. :slight_smile:
     
  10. jjusa

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    Personally sexual fantasies do not equate to wanting a relationship with the subject of said fantasies.
     
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  11. RD Spencer

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    This is something that I have been back and forth on for a long time.


    Still even considering the post above, there are times when I wonder what it would be like and what I might be missing out on. Are the fantasies just that and nothing else?


    Out there somewhere there are others who feel the same way as we do. I have read on here and other websites where those who are lgbt say they can’t see themselves in a romantic same sex relationship. Many have also said they don’t fit in with the lgbt crowd.
     
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  12. silverhalo

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    Even if nobody else's story was similar to yours it wouldn't matter, attraction to the same sex is all you need to be in the queer camp.
    I can't remember names of many stories that have similarities to yours although I can see that a couple have identified themselves. One that sprung to my mind was @out2019 I spoke to him a bit when he first joined and for him to begin with it was definitely only a physical attraction. Sure he doesn't have the same bad experiences with the same sex but I can definitely see similarities.
     
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  13. out2019

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    I didn't even think it was 'physical' since I told myself it was all in my head and I 'claimed' that I didn't even notice men IRL.

    I have heard a lot of men say at first they just fantasized about body parts- part of that I think was because of denial - you don't want to imagine you actually like another guy. I definitely started out this way, the more I accepted myself the more I was allowing myself to acknowledge the full range of my feelings.

    Everyone's experience is unique but I definitely found parts of my story in other people's stories, but no story is 100% like mine. For a long time I used that for 'denial' (not saying you are, I am just relating my own experience). But when I came here I had a lot of 'I can't be gay because' threads/posts.
     
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  14. Big

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    Hi! I am 22 yrs old and a web developer. I am a lesbian as well and we have the same storyline to the tea. I joke that I am sort of a lgtow...lesbian mgtow at this point. I knew I was not crazy, nor the only one! I would love to talk more about this. I just made my account moments ago and was up reading usual late night reddit posts trying to find advice about lesbian intimacy etcetc...I didn't find much, no surprise. I'm real and I also van dwell in my renovated van with my chihuahua I swear! It was lovely reading your post. I just knew I was not the only one who had these conflictions, I thank the high heavens of the cosmos! I hope you read this and to whoever else reading as well, please pass this on. I need to keep up my projects for the youth and other generations indeed I do and you all reminded me of this, what inspiration!
     
    #34 Big, Feb 21, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2021
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  15. out2019

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    I was thinking about this a little more and wanted to clarify some things.... again this is just my experience, I am not at all saying your journey is the same.

    I remember doing this too and I got so good at it I convinced myself I didn't look...but looking back what were my fantasies based on? :slight_smile:
    Also, sometimes i was grossed out... but you know what? It's because, just like with heterosexuals looking -not everyone you see is sexually attractive. I 'used' this to tell myself I wasn't gay.

    Yep.
    Looking back, the feelings of the romantic fantasies were that ... I wasn't gay! the romantic fantasies were 'proving' I wasn't gay. But I couldn't get sexually aroused.. at all. Sometimes a little but nothing like when fantasizing about guys.

    When I finally 'allowed' myself to romantically fantasize about men there wasn't even any comparison. I wanted to start dating guys! Like you I was 'eh' about straight dating

    I thought this for a long time. But then I asked myself... if my hetero sexual fantasies were as intense would I just brush them off, or would I say it was proof I wasn't gay? Do straight people who sexually fantasize about straight sex think it means they are not straight?
    But I had so much shame that I told myself I was grossed out by dating men. Even the idea of kissing a guy seemed weird and gross. The more I accepted myself, got rid of the shame the romantic stuff grew and grew.

    I used to think that too - and frankly I think there is a lot of the 'community' that is not for me.

    When I wasn't ready I would have felt the same way trying to picture a romantic relationship. But it sounds like a lot of emotion is connected with this for you. Discomfort and panic - I felt this way because even trying to picture a romantic relationship it wasn't 'safe' like the hetero fantasy, this was me really feeling attraction... and gulp... love.. that's very very vulnerable and for a lot of us who had shame about this or just hurt in some way, that can create a lot of panic!
    I know this is totally hypothetical, but if you could trust a girl could you picture yourself in a relationship?

    Yeah I'm a gay guy and @jjusa I don't want to tell you my story is your story but I can definitely relate to a lot of the feelings you are talking about there....
     
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  16. jjusa

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    That's really great! How did you allow yourself to have romantic fantasies about men? For me, it's not that I don't have romantic fantasies about the same sex (i.e. women), it's that when I do, I convince myself that it's not romantic.

    This gave me some perspective. I never thought about the other way around. Thanks :slight_smile:

    Interesting. I never thought kissing a girl was gross but I have convinced myself that it doesn't mean I am not straight. Like how society expects women to be sexualized by everybody, including women.


    You're right there is emotion attached to my romantic relationship fantasies. Right now I can only see the negative and that could just be my anxiety/depression talking. I'm glad we can relate a lot on this. Yeah the "safety" thing is a huge issue for me. I am normally uncomfortable and scared of intimacy of any kind across the board. I don't feel safe with anybody so I avoid relationships altogether. Attraction is another thing too. I rarely feel attracted so that's another problem.To answer your question, it would take a lot of work for me to finally see myself in a relationship with a girl. I honestly don't know what trust feels like because I rarely feel it. :frowning2:
     
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  17. out2019

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    Why do you convince yourself they aren't romantic?
    -I 'allowed' myself - very slowly., I didn't try to force it, I was reading an article about figuring out your sexuality- i forgot the link but it was a very good one -very in depth - but at one point, one of the articles said something like 'imagine being on a romantic dinner and holding hands across the table.. and WOW, it 'slipped in' I saw myself with a guy and my heart rushed. So wasn't actively trying to fantasize or 'force it'.

    Just a theory: So it could just be as you say, anxiety talking not that you don't /can't have romantic relationships or can't imagine yourself in a romantic relationship with a woman - it's that it really touches the most important parts of you inside - so it's not as 'safe' as a hetro fantasy which doesn't have as much emotional investment.

    Everyone's story is unique but Id found that I could find a little of my story in other people's stories, and some answers and insights. At some point I became comfortable enough with being gay, and happy about it, that I no longer had to 'figure everything out' for awhile I was baffled why I looked at women on the street, but i was liking embracing my sexuality so much I stopped caring. "you know what," i said to myself, i'll figure out that later.. or maybe not, it doesn't matter, I want to fully embrace being gay."
     
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  18. Lesbee

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    @jjusa I relate to this a lot! I've been out as bi for years, but came out while dating a man (and I'm still with him now), but am currently questioning again because I can't bring myself to be anything but platonic with him all of a sudden (after doing some healing around sexual traumas in the past and getting reconnected to my body). I only ever fantasize about women, and growing up never had real friendships with girls - I had the same feelings you described - like they're just shallow and not interested in the same stuff and annoying or petty or just too high strung or something.

    It was only in the last year or two that I've found some women that I decided to be more vulnerable with because it was called for in the situation, even though I didn't feel that close to them at the time. And the more I open up, the more women I've found who are like us -- most of them are queer, but not all of them. I now know several women who have so much depth, a huge variety of interests, are not petty or gossipy at ALL, totally accepting and down to earth the way the guys I used to know have been. And it turns out, most of the guys I thought were cool were just trying to get into my pants back then anyway (although I also have a handful of men I feel the same way about - my current partner included). You are not alone, I just think you may not have found the right women yet. <3
     
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  19. jjusa

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    When i create a romantic fantasy there are no feelings of trust, safety, and excitement. I can only picture myself being incredibly insecure and mistrusting. I am always hiding my true personality and the girl is always not interested in getting to know me. That's the automatic reaction. It's like romantic fantasies are supposed to be a happy place with a real connection with somebody, but it seems like my mind can only see the bad. My brain just can't see anything that is positive about being with a girl.
     
  20. jjusa

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    Maybe that's true. I feel like imagining a romantic relationship with the gender you are attracted to shouldn't cause so much stress, you know? For me, there is so much resistance against being with a woman, it makes me not want to be with one even more haha.

    That's great you are in a place of self-awareness. The first time I thought about this was 3 years ago and I kind of questioned a little bit even before that, but it's still not resolved for me.

    @Lesbee Thank you for sharing your story and I'm so sorry about what you have gone through.Wow! I have still not met any women like the women you described and I'm in my late twenties now.