God, Me, Homosexuality

As a Roman Catholic gay man from a small-town, this thread kind of hits home. I had to stop going to Sunday mass a few years back when the priest started talking about how homosexuality is a sin and that the church didn't support gays or gay marriage. I kept going at Easter and Christmas just because I missed the music and couldn't stay away.

It's taken me the last few years to come to a compromise. I still believe in God, but maybe not same type of God that was driven into my head since I was a little kid. I still pray, and I still believe in the power of prayer. I believe that the Bible is to be interpreted (LOOSELY), and that it's more of a guide than a lawbook.

I've come to the conclusion that there's some kind of force that keeps the word in balance. Maybe it's God, maybe it's just the moon and tides, maybe it's karma?? I know that there is something that keeps me happy when I try to keep myself and other people happy.

If you're mean and hateful, the world will be hateful back. If you're loving, accepting, and happy, the world will love you back. And so will God, whatever he/she/it is!

 

As far as I know, all Christians believe that Jesus is God (the Trinity and all that). And the Bible (Gods word) says that homosexuality is wrong both in the Old and New Testament.

 

While I'm not very religious myself, I know people. And they love to be right. So, when someone who think homosexuality is wrong they see that the Bible (ol' Levi, such a funny guy) says being say is an abomination (also says the same about shell fish). So, people jump on it amd say God is on my side, so I'm right ha, ha, ha, ha.

I have two friends (a gay couple) that go to church every Sunday, they are involved in church activities and such. Here is what their pastor told them.

God wants his children to love one another, not be at each other's throats, Church is ment to be a sanctuary, so I would never turn you away for your sexual orientation, no more then I would turn away someone because of the color of their skin or whether they have had premarital sex or divorced. If we turned away everyone who has done something the Bible has said is wrong then there would be no one here.

 

I really want to post something on this thread. I really REALLY do. I want to say that God is love, I want to say that it doesn't matter what we do we can still be saved. I want to say things I don't even know what they are. I can't, each time I write sometihng I just delete it so I'll say this. God loves everybody and there is no way NO WAY that him making us like us is gonna keep us from him, he's just too good for that.

 

^ The only kind of god I could believe in.

 

I have a question for those who talk about "interpreting" the Bible.

Why do you feel the need to believe in a book and in its God if you have to change the actual words in that book in order to align with your worldview? Or is it just a cultural thing?

 

No matter which side you argue, you are biased. How do you know that God loves you? The video with the gay pastor may sound inspiring and heartfelt, but he is a biased pastor. A straight pastor may preach that homosexuality is against God, and he is a biased pastor as well. A celibate priest may preach something with regards to homosexuality and religious doctrine, he is biased as well.

We atheist go through life refusing to believe in God, well, we don't really know for sure either.

We live our lives and hope for the best.

 

guys this thread is for a guy who wants to talk to some gay christians so please can we just keep to that? I know you guys want to say all about how god isn't real and all that and I respect that, just please, can we keep on topic?

 

It's not about changing the words. It's about understanding them in the context in which they were written. The Bible is several thousand years old, and it's not easy to translate it properly. What biblical scholars do is examine the words of the Bible and interpret them and argue over their interpretations. And no one interpretation is authoritative.

The idea that you have to twist the meaning of the Bible's words to get anything but a fundamentalist interpretation out of them is just plain wrong. In fact, fundamentalists do just as much if not more word-twisting than other Christians.

 

Well said! Couldn't agree more.

 

Good point. However, I'd add specifically in regards to homosexuality, the argument from the left is that:

1. There are very, very few verses that even remotely mention homosexuality.
2. These verses are mis-translated.

The reason for this is that the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek, neither Hebrew or Greek at the time had a single word for "homosexuality". In fact, the Greeks saw sex as "two seperate acts" a penetrator and person being penetrated, and then cast value judgements on each act seperately. So, the issue quickly becomes, when the Bible speaks about homosexuality what exactly is it denouncing? Many University scholars today are suggesting that in many, (if not all cases), the "homosexual" quotations are refering to homosexual rape, beastiality, pagan sex orgies and not consensual sex at all.

In fact in the famous Leviticus quote "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination," scholars are now suggesting that there are six English words for the Hebrew word "to'ebah", which in EVERY Bible I've seen is translated to "an abomination". One new found meaning suggests that this line may mean that "Sex should not be part of the worship of God". Good thing too, because I don't want it taking place in Sunday Worship ^^

So, I think Liam's question

would better be asked as,

"Why did the Roman Church, when translating the Bible to the official 'Latin', feel the need to change the actual words in that book in order to align with its worldview? Or was it just for cultural reasons?"

Or was it a simple mistake?

 

Why is it that so many organized religions demand conformace to strict dogma? What if we just opened our minds for a moment.. and allowed ourselves to formulate our own opinions of spiritual matters? IMO too many people "pick" religions as though they were football teams, where you are either "for 'em or against 'em". I see no problem in looking at any religion objectively, seeing what works for you and what doesn't, even adapting their beliefs to suit your own spiritual sensibilities. Heck, why not even hybridize religions?

I believe that when we are true to our own spiritual beliefs, then we can find a comfortable place for our true selves within them. In the case of Christianity, I don't believe that Christians have to "conform" to any strict doctrine or interpretation as set out by others. There's a bible and there are the teachings of the religion, and no one but you, yourself, should have the right to tell you what they mean. Our Creator (God if you like) gave us all brains and intelligence, and I suspect he/she/it wants us to use them. Having others tell us what is right and wrong is a violation of that inborn right. I'd say to use religion as a guide, but let your own heart and inner spirituality tell you how homosexuality fits into your religious beliefs.

And if you're true to yourself, then it will. It has to, because you were made this way, and your Creator wouldn't make you "wrong". By definition.

 

Christianity is a faith based on the belief that Jesus of Nazareth was/is God. Through the Christian faith, Christians yearn to better themselves through finding God. They do this through prayer, acting in a manner Christ did while on earth and obeying Jesus' teachings. The Bible is also useful in so much that Jesus used it as a basis for his teachings and it helps Christians to understand while searching for God.

While I would agree that some organised religions "demand conformace to strict dogma", I think that statement is a bit of a sterotype and very all-encompassing. Christians listen to the teachings of Christian leaders to find support for their search for God. But, I can't say that I have met a Christian that believed everything their Priest/Minister/Pastor told them. Heck, the Roman Catholic Church which is by far the largest Christian denomination in the world is pretty clear on abstinance, no birth control, regular confession etc, but I think the vast majority of Catholics don't "conform" to these guidelines. Yet, in the same sense, while most Christians may not believe everything their clergy tells them, they believe that their clergy are "mostly right" and "have the best intentions at heart". Basically, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I think it is clear that Christians don't all "conform" to the -exact- same set of beliefs simply due to the fact that there are -hundreds- of denominations out there today, who all are Christians but believe in a slighly different manner. Some more conservative/liberal than others.

But in the end, following the Christian path is very much a personal individual journey. You're not a Christian simply because you go to church or because your neighbour is, you're a Christian because you personally believe in the teachings of Jesus, and no one can control this but you.

As for "too many people "pick" religions as though they were football teams, where you are either "for 'em or against 'em"." I'd disagree... I think most people don't pick their religion at all, most are born into their religion. And while there are fundamentalists out there, I think it is a mean stereotype to say that Christians/Muslims/Jews/Atheists are "against" people of other religions etc...

 

I'm an atheist so im no expert but I think Christianity is about the teachings of christ, not god. I think it does say somewhere in the bible that homosexuality is wrong but then so is eating shell fish...and I love my prawns. I can't say that there is any reason to believe there is a god. But you do what you think is right, the more you think about it, the more clear the answer will be In my opinion.

 

I'm not religious but it is my understanding that there are far more complaints about straight sex than there are about gay sex in the bible.... I don't belive the numbers are out of proportion to the population figures. It really depends on how much emphasis you want to put on certain passages. The prevailing view here is that god loves everyone and Jesus never said anything about it being wrong to be gay. If god was really that worried about it surely Jesus would have said something?

 

I am christian, and my relationship with God is something I have been continually working on for a very long time. I've come to realize 2 things. One, an individuals relationship with God is between them and God and no one else. Two, that there is no such thing as the untainted word of God. The Bible, Priests, Clerics, Guru Stew,and all the like cannot truly know the truth of God because of their nature of being human. God's nature is of the divine and is too grand for any or all of humanity.
Now, i regress, this is not to say enlightened individuals and works do not have something to teach us, only that they cannot be taken as absolute truth. This was the reason for God to become man in Jesus. The nature of Jesus is both human and divine. So he was able to transmit the truth to us. He stood up for those in need, the meek, the sick, the out cased, the fringed.

If you think homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of God, then that is your problem. Becuase the God i know loves all, regardless of creed, color, or sexual orientation. Just because some close minded people a have extrapolated that it is a sin in the bible doesn't mean its the truth.

 

If it makes you feel better, one of the greatest church fathers, St Augustine, who grew up in a time when everyone learned Greek as part of their education, never mastered the language. So you can still try to study and understand this stuff without learning the languages. Though that would be fun and can be done in modern times, too.

 

Its amazing how many times one can come across cultural issues masquerading around as religious ones.

As do I. There is a lot lost in translation.

 

Just so you know....
Christ = God = Jesus (same thing to Christians, Jesus/Christ is just the name for God when he took human form to deliver the message of salvation.)

The New Testament clearly states that Christians should eat shellfish and not keep the same dietary rules of the Jews. Unfortunately, nothing was said about homosexuality in this instance.

I LOVE THIS! ^