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The development of sexual orientation

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by Bastion, May 7, 2021.

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  1. Shadowsettler

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    Like I said, it's not you guys that I'm upset at, but there's people that do profess these things as scientific fact.

    I just wanted to clarify that. I just felt driven to testify this. It's a topic that highly upsets me but taking about it has made me felt better.

    Thank you for your concern though ❤️
     
    #81 Shadowsettler, May 18, 2021
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  2. QuietPeace

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    Nobody here is saying that being gay means that you are broken or damaged. Nor has it been said that every person who is gay has experienced adverse factors.

    It has been mentioned here that epigenetics and such can be a factor for some or possibly many people. Also just because you do not know of any factors in your past does not mean that they are not there. These factors go back to your parents, grandparents, ... and the changes get passed on. From my own history because I do know of things I am fairly confident that there were things happening to my mom while she was pregnant with me.
     
  3. PatrickUK

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    For the most part it's down to religion. I know some people have prejudice without religious belief, but their prejudice likely stems from a religious narrative that has been passed down through the generations, or through 'education', that same sex attraction is wrong and somehow disordered.

    It's a big issue that I won't get into in this thread because it will take the discussion off on a tangent if I do.
     
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  4. Shadowsettler

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    Genetically, maybe you're right but no social factor has made me this way.

    i agree generics/ en eutero development plays a huge role in it but there were no social factors that made me this way. I know this for a fact. It's purely biological.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ☺️
     
    #84 Shadowsettler, May 19, 2021
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  5. Shadowsettler

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    Seriously, from age 0-11 there was nothing adverse that happened to me and I've always been gay. I've thought boys were always cute and I've always had "trans tendencies" as well. No social factor has molded or influenced me.

    until 1999 when the evil was put upon me, and every time ever since.

    before then the life was perfect. my family was beautiful. I was such a happy child. until the day that it all started in my world was turned upside down by the f****** wicked evil Evangelicals got their hands on me, literally.

    it was so life-changing in fact that it eventually tore my family apart because of my PTSD.

    thankfully today I'm getting a lot better now and my family is somewhat normal again is somewhat normal again
     
    #85 Shadowsettler, May 19, 2021
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  6. Shadowsettler

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    actually I think they were Baptist, my mistake.
    there was a lot of gay panic in the '90s for some reason.
     
    #86 Shadowsettler, May 19, 2021
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  7. QuietPeace

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    No one here is claiming that social factors create sexual orientation. There has been discussion on how it may affect behavior, even you have pointed out how social factors have affected your life. The things that affect our development (and not just in sexual orientation) are incredibly complex. I doubt that there is anything about a person which has one and only one factor that causes it. Not only that, what has a serious effect on one person may have no effect on another,. We are all complex and unique individuals.

    Also, epigenetics IS biological not a social thing.
     
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  8. Shadowsettler

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    I'll say this again! You guys aren't the ones upsetting me. I'm a little irritated that nobody has read that part of my post... you guys are fine, don't worry about it. I'm not blaming anyone here
     
  9. Shadowsettler

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    Chip listed a bunch of negative socio economic "environmental triggers"... I wish he'd be more clear, or somebody...

    I'm not even sure who's saying what at this point... but my sexuality nor my epigens were influenced by parents fighting, divorce, abuse, neglect, poverty... none of it.
     
  10. Shadowsettler

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    I feel like nobody here really understands anything about epigenetics because they won't simply explain it in layman's terms but I know God damn well sure that I wasn't made or molded this way

    I'm no geneticist or biologist but I know that genes are not that easily influenced by stress to make somebody turn out to be straight or gay it doesn't make sense at all I'm sorry

    it's definitely from brain development in the womb it has to be I came out my mama's vajayjay this way I know I have.

    I want to speak to an actual scientist on this. somebody who can actually explain it and fully understands it because I'm pretty sure even scientists don't fully understand it, but there's plenty of evidence showing that what I'm saying is likely the answer and a lot of scientists do agree
     
    #90 Shadowsettler, May 19, 2021
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  11. Shadowsettler

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    I do believe there is a gay gene or gay part of the gene but it's definitely not influenced from the f****** outside world it's definitely influenced by family makeup and all of those other factors. How your are bred, essentially, "born this way".
     
    #91 Shadowsettler, May 19, 2021
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  12. QuietPeace

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    Chips initial post on the subject
    There are a lot of other factors, it is an entire branch of science that is only starting to be developed. It can go back generations and involve all sorts of factors including weather, nutrition and who knows what else. They are not just things that happen to you after you are born.

    You cannot be certain what factors influenced your epigenetics. You do not know every medication, foods, pollution, stress factors your mother and father were exposed to in their lives before you were conceived and during your development in utero.

    and yet again I am going to repeat. No one here is claiming that those factors which you are specifically pointing to in your arguments here CAUSED YOUR orientation.
     
  13. Shadowsettler

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    Chips initial post on the subject... I know for a fact it was none of those things listed BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAPPEN. I will not repeat myself neither.

    none of those things ever happened in my life @QuietPeace.

    I don't know how many times I have to say it. those things never happened to me so they are not factors in my life. they are excluded.
     
    #93 Shadowsettler, May 19, 2021
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  14. Shadowsettler

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    It could have been anything else, but the things Chip listed were not. Guaranteed, because they never happened. On other points of epigenetics, my mother didn't smoke with me, she was healthy. Everything about the pregnancy was normal, other than perhaps prenatal androgens, but the things that Chip listed were not factors in it. That's all I'm saying, nothing more, nothing less. I agree that genes are influenced by environment but there was nothing un natrual or adverse about her pregnancy with me, nor was my childhood...

    I'm not going to argue about it any further. Have a good morning.
     
    #94 Shadowsettler, May 19, 2021
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  15. QuietPeace

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    The science says that it is not just one gene. That it could be many and they do not know which ones or fully how many plus other factors.

    They did not happen to you but epigenetics is not just about what happens to you it is about what happened to all of your ancestors also. You are also hammering on that limited list but there are many more possible things, it is a new science and even the best experts on the subject do not claim to know everything about it or what all of the possible factors could be. In giving that list Chip was clear that it was a limited and only partial list. Also, no one has stated that every possible influence has happened to every person. Only that these are possible ways for each of us. Each of us got to where we are in a unique way. What affected you may not have affected anyone else and what affected me may not be applicable to your life at all. There is no one right answer for everyone.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
     
    #95 QuietPeace, May 19, 2021
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  16. Shadowsettler

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    If there was something that changed my genetics it must have been so small and incidental that not even my own mother noticed it.... She's told me about her pregnancy with me and I know about her life, at least the general parts of it. Nothing noticable. Perhaps very subtle, but nothing "world changing". It was an "act of god", not of adversity/stress/trauma. My mother... her mother... my dad, his family... all normal. I'm the only one in any of my family, in a few generations, other than great-grandfather (WWII) that has seen any real adversity in life.

    It could have been androgens/hormones in her system *[which makes a lot more sense than any of the other things], but there was no "noticeable" factors. She lived a pretty normal life. Her pregnancy was normal. Scientists already agree that a mother's "chemicals" are what change our genes, and therefore, change our brains when she is pregnant with us. Seems to make sense to me.

    She used to tell me all the time "I swore you were going to be a girl... the doctors told me you were supposed to be a girl". I'll have to ask her to clarify that one day. I'm not sure how that's determined other than sonogram.. especially in the late 80's, I will ask her about it.
     
    #96 Shadowsettler, May 19, 2021
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  17. Shadowsettler

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    and again, @QuietPeace I'm not badgering you. I'm not badgering Chip, i'm saying that none of what you guys are saying applies to me, so I don't know what could have happened while my mother was pregnant with me [other than her pregnancy hormones, that's the only logical answer I can come up with]. I am very well versed in my own history, my family's history and some of their family's history... So I do, in fact, know it was none of what you said. It was not.

    I don't know about your family history. You don't know about mine... I do know about my own, however and there was nothing noticeable that took place at any point. It has to be a chemical/ hormonal thing with my mother while she was pregnant with me. There's no other logical explanation
     
    #97 Shadowsettler, May 19, 2021
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  18. Nickw

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    @Shadowsettler

    I come from a large family. Of the eight offspring, four are gay or bisexual. I have a gay aunt, a gay great aunt, and a gay nephew. I was raised a lot different from my younger siblings. I'm convinced the sexuality of my siblings and myself were not influenced by how I was raised. Just like you, it made no sense.

    I've done a fair amount or reading on the subject because my family is so unique I wonder why this happened. My take away is that there probably is a gene, or a series of combinations of genes (we have to consider the Kinsey Scale in here) that is available for the creation of someone who is homosexual or bisexual. That gene may well be triggered by something hormonal or environmental in utero.

    Much of the study of the "causes" of homosexuality center around males who identify as homosexual. There is less study on bisexuals and lesbians. With bisexuals this is so confusing to me because if there is a biological switch then I didn't get the switch at all in my genetics. I'm pretty much into both males and females. So, even if we could narrow down the cause of why some males turned out a Kinsey 6 the same combination of genes and stimuli may not be the same for lesbians or bisexuals.

    Instead of distressing over the "fault" of being gay or bisexual I tend to lump it together with who I am. I'm very creative and coordinated. I can be very open and sensitive (I have bad traits too I won't get into...). I wonder if I switched off gay, I might switch off some of the other things that make me who I am.

    As others have mentioned, we are very complicated beings.
     
  19. Bastion

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    Yes I agree with a lot what the posters have said. Including @Nickw, @QuietPeace and some the advisors like @Chip and @PatrickUK.

    What it comes down to in the end is that human beings are very complicated beings.
    There is no one explanation that fits all.
    Everyone is different and even science has not figured everything out especially when it comes to sexuality.

    @Shadowsettler, Forget the science and what it says or doesn’t say. You know yourself better than anyone.You believe in yourself. I’m sure you are an amazing person. Try to focus on the good things in life man. Be proud. Just be yourself and surround yourself with loving people. Just go out and enjoy your life they way you want to and try to distance yourself from hateful people.
     
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  20. dirtyshirt84

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    I have read the book ‘Exercised’ by Daniel Lieberman and while it is mainly about the science of physical activity (it’s a really interesting book btw!), he has done a lot of research into Hunter Gatherer tribes. At one point he explains how children are looked after by grandparents as well as others in the group, allowing the parents to hunt/gather. I guess it’s like the old adage ‘it takes a village to raise a child’ so there may be an evolutionary advantage to having gay people in the group who don’t have their own children, but are able to look after others children. Just throwing it out there :slight_smile:
     
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